PeterRS

Alas no! I hesitate to comment on what is a marvellously written account of your trip to Thailand. But I I'd suggest your conversion rates are incorrect. Thailand works in litres (which you may well have factored in) and one litre is somewhere in the region of US$1.25 for gas - somewhat less for gasohol and so it depends on the vehicle. By my reckoning that makes roughly US$4.70 per gallon of gas.

You give them too much credit! What I'd like to know is how this pleasant new beach is going to be protected from the natural wave effect of beach erosion. There is no way of which I am aware to prevent wave erosion other than to construct wooden pier-type sea wall structures that run from the costline right into the sea and located every 60-80 meters or so.The is especially true of a beach that is essentially flat. The only other method is regular sand replenishment which can be horribly expensive. Ocean City in Maryland spent US$40 million on beach nourishment but this can also be harmful to the eco-system. It also requires sand to be constantly replaced. From a Bangkok POst article in June 2020, it seems that 680,000 cubic meters of sand will be transferred from Koh Rang Kwian. Presumably therefore constant replenishment will be required - and someone in future will have to pay for it. The northern Scottish city of Aberdeen used to be known as the "Silver City by the Golden Sands" a result of many holdings being constructed of granite which gleams in sunlight and a very long large beach. When the beach started eroding many decades ago, the CIty Council installed the structures seen in this photo. They are ugly and I have no idea how effective they have been in the longer term. Not very, if the photo is anything to go by. But I cannot see what is being utilised to stop sand erosion in the new Jomtien Beach.

There are so many wise words and observations in @macaroni21's post. My somewhat extensive experience here and elsewhere in the region is also that younger guys - generally speaking - are more embarrassed now to be known by their peers about buying sex. And since most tend to travel in groups of two or more, this can be a potent deterrent. It was all so different when my generation was their age. We came from countries where in many cases it had been illegal to be found in gay acts or where homophobia was rife. If in the UK such prominent people as one of the country's greatest actors Sir John Gielgud (entrapment in a public lavatory) and the code-breaker Alan Turing whose work it is said had shortened the Second World War by almost two years had to go through the humilitation of public court trials for being gay ultimately leading so sadly to the suicide ot Turing, what chance had we lesser mortals of expressing our sexuality? We then found Asia and the male nudity aplenty in bars like 69 Retiro Strip in Manila and Twilight in Bangkok. We were in naturally in 7th heaven! Youngsters nowadays, however difficult it may be for them to come out of the closet, have a multitude of outlets for free sex, much of it anonymous if they wish. Why therefore pay for it other than the entrance fee for a sauna? I beieve many of us forget that in the late 1970s and 1980s, the majority of patrons in go-go bars were Thais! It was not unusual to see no farang in Apollo bar and less than a handful in Twiilight, even at weekends when a little guy was packing the floor space with temporary seating as customers swarmed in - and there must usually have been at least 80 customers. Barbiery later seemed to pack 100 in at week-ends, again mostly Thai. I have always wondered where the Thais then disappeard to. Massage spas and saunas no doubt. and also to the gay sections of the many basically straight dance clubs that began to appear off Sukhumvit especially up near Thonglor. My guess is that they were not comfortable sitting in a go-go bar with an increasing number of farang or where they might be seen by their peers. So they migrated to places where they could be with their own group of friends and fellow gays in gay sections of surroundings which were not generally known as gay. Reinventing is something few go-go bars seem to even consider. We've read before about X-Size bar in Soi Twillight which in the early 2000s did try someting new with, in addition to go-go boys, a group of excellent dancers and dance students doing often great dance routines. But the production was poor with long gaps between the numbers when customers just got bored. When X-Size died, the dancers were taken on by the German across the soi. But they did not last there and ended up for a few months in Roxy in Soi 4. But the desperate lack of what I will just call a producer/director killed them. Which was sad. I recall going back many years when @Gaybutton was not merely an active member of this forum but also a Moderator. He was I beieve one of the first to lament the lack of entertainment offered by the go-go bars. His view was echoed by many that the go-go bars had ceased to be fun! Barbiery had it in spades. Hotmale did its best. Classic Boys had the water tank with increasingly dirty water that I'm surprised no boy caught an infection. But in most it was generally same-old same-old. With all respect to @reader and his view which no doubt will be supported by many, my view of a go-go bar is not a more expensive indoors version of a host beer bar where the guys are dressed, the off fees higher and the booze more expensive. Is that really what go-go is all about? Perhaps in the third decade of the 21st century, it is. I just don't know. Is that what is going to attract customers whose command of English is almost zero? Again I just don't now. I wish i did and then perhaps @Olddaddy and I could go into business opening our own bar somewhere LOL (see @Olddaddy's thread about opening a business in Thailand!)

Only sex LOL!

So bars can stay open till 4:00 am. What if a paron who tests positive on the breath test is leaving at 3:39 am? Where does he sober up? And perhaps someone who thought up this mad scheme can recall how long it takes actually to sober up. If someone has drunk 8 beers over the course of an evening, he'll likely have to remain somewhere ifor around 12 hours. I think there must be a little attic somewhere staffed with elves, goblins and, for those who are operatically minded, Nibelungen whose sole job it is to think up these mad schemes and then send them down by old pressure tubes that used to be common in department stores 60 years ago to the relevant ministry for pronouncement as policy!

My very first go-go experience was taking two boys upstairs to a rather dingy room and having them perform on the bed while I sat on a nearby chair. At one point the bottom indicated I should just come and sit on the bed where he undid my zipper and . . . well, you can guess what happened thereafter. I can see no reason why you cannot get a few boys together to be naked in your room. The important thing I suggest is that they sholud all know each other and be happy being naked around the others. So just get the cutest boy you fancy and ask him to make a list of those he's happy to be with. As long as they all get tips, you'll have fun! You re probably right but I do find it strange that as they are almost always going to be fully nude in your room, why are customers not permitted to see the boys in all their glory before you get as far as the room? It need'nt necessarily be a line-up. The boys could appear naked individually in a small room.

I did a four-day trip from Bergen up past the Arctic Circle to the lovely town of Tromso. I had found a lovely little hotel in Tromso where in addition to all-day tea and coffee in the little lounge, they served pancake mix and various jams in the early evening. I'd never seen that before.

Like some parts of the US constitution, the electoral college no doubt seemed a worthy idea when it was adopted so that the large coastal states did not have a lock on the presidency. But it is now vastly outdated. As is having a more than 2-month period between the date of the election and the confirmation of its result. In the old days of horse and buggy, again it was probably a sensible and honest proposal to ensure that every vote counted. Now in the days of supercomputers and the like, there is absolutely no reason for the USA not to have something similar to that which operates in the UK. The UK's general election results are confirmed usually within a maximium of 30 hours (and that is only to allow those outer islands votes to be counted and relayed back), the outgoing Prime Minister is out of Downing Street that evening and the new Prime Minister is in the following day - more or less. We saw the hanging chad nonsense in 2000. We have all witnessed the ghastly Trump continuing to do everything in his power to declare the 2000 election which threw him out invalid. It is almost unbelievable that, no matter that states control their own voting systems, in a Presidential election for the most powerful man in the world, there is not a separate uniform countrywide system of voting in all states whose taliies cannot be questioned. Recounts in the UK where ballots are hand counted freqently take place. But they do so on the spot in the vote counting halls so that the recount result comes only hours after the intial disputed tally.

Now if only someone had told me this, I would have booked a longer trip! As it was, I really wanted two days at the astonishingly beautiful and hugely memorable Jiuzhaigou National Park which covers three large valleys and which I reached by short flights up to its airport 3,500 meters at the top of a mountain. But I could easily have added a few more days at the end to enjoy more of the beautiful scenery (oops guys) in Chengdu!

Isn't prostitution in one or other of its forms one of the reasons many gay guys visit Thailand? We all know that tips for offing from bars aren't tips; they are just fees for prostitution! Was Sunee's reputation for prostitution any different from Soi Twilight's? But another reason for Pattaya's slow decline as a gay go-go venue may be its having been much more a retirement haven for westerners, many of whom moved there quite a few years ago partly for the availablility of the bars and guys. Many are ageing given the length of time they have lived here. I'd guess there are many more retirees in Bangkok but Bangkok also has a vastly larger array of evening haunts apart from go-go bars and a great many expats who choose for whatever reason not to visit go-go and other bars. A bit like the new version of me! For a dozen years, I had living next to me a couple of elderly gay UK expats enjoying their retirement here. I once asked them of they read this forum. They did not read any gay forums and had no interest in them! In the evenings, only one of them would visit the then Telephone Bar about 4 or 5 times a week, but only to meet up and chat with fellow western expat friends. That was his only reason for the visits and they never went anywhere else. The other cruised occasionally in Silom Complex but no idea how successful or otherwise that turned out to be. And isn't one basic problem for Pattaya that perhaps retirement options now in other parts of the world are a good deal greater than they used to be. I know several people who are considering Portugal before its existing easy visa access is changed, including Chinese guys from Hong Kong. For medical costs, India is now a good deal less expensive than Thailand with some very fine medical faciities. Of course Thailand takes some beating, but for those who read the American threads on this forum, several countries in South America have become/are becoming attractive. As I know from my travels, there are also gay young Asian guys in many European cities very happy to meet up - although the numbers are small. In Asia, I expect Taiwan will eventually introduce a retirement visa and that Vietnam may change its previousy changed policy and reintroduce one. I certanly would find Vietnam very enticing. Just thoughts!

I took that photo in 2012. GIven the popularity of Russian cuisine, I expect the sign is probably still there. I have found on the internet a photo that includes it dating from 2020, so I can see no reason it would have been taken down. This is an entrance to the restaurant with the title in three languages but clearly from the figure in the doorway it is Russian and dressed for winter! Apparently it was the first Caucasian restaurant in China. I am wondering if the sign is a crude portrayal of Russian Muslems! Most Russians had left the city by the md-1960s but from that 2020 review the staff are still Russian. The Ice and Snow Sculpture Parks also have a lot of Russian influence, even with a ballerina in one of the massive snow scuptures. Incidentally, thanks to the flood of Russian immigrants following the Revolution, many were musicians and Harbin developed what remains the oldest music Conservatoire in China.

Apologies! In line 4 of my post above I should have written Purachai and not Anutin.

I could bore readers with endless photos of from China visits. Let me just say that Chengdu is a great city for gay visitors. Apart from its obvious sights, including the amazing huge panda reserve just outside the city and the Giant Buddha at Leshan, it has a few gay bars. When I was there the apps were absolutely humming. In fact, I couldn't keep up. One cute guy just would not give up and I had to squeee him in (or I squeezed into him 😵) on my last morning before I had to check out at midday. Not one wanted even transport money. Perhaps one reason is Chengdu is the 5th largest city in China with the metropolitan area having nearly 10 million citizens and a catchment area of around 14 million. It also has well over 20 major universities - that's a lot of sexy, hungry, cute young guys!

I feel I must mention here a superb post made by @macaroni21's predecessor quite a few years ago. There had been a lengthy discussion about the fact that go-go bars were becoming somewhat boring in that all seemed to adopt the same model and lacked the entertainment value of earlier bars like Barbiery. He outlined his idea for an updated go-go bar which included various sections, one being where the boys would always dance naked. Entry to this part would obviouly be more expensive but the essence was that a bar which offered a variety of different types of experience could perhaps rejuvenate the bar scene. I thought it was brilliant!

I wonder if there is now some sort of ban on nudity. As you may know from posts I have made before, nudity was common in the early gay bars in the 1980s. At Apollo go-go in Soi 4 and the original Twilight go-go (later Hotmale), around 9.:30pm the briefs would come off and all the boys - and Twilight had at least 60 of them - would strip off and parade in the nude for the next couple of hours or so. It was obvious in Twilight that some of the boys were less happy being naked, but the others and all those in the much smaller Apollo seemed perfectly happy and gleefully played around with each other.

Thanks @gerefan. Given the existing clients, on the basis of @macaroni21's theory below, this could suggest that the Complex days will also be numbered. I have no idea of the average age of customers there, but if I recall correctly Sunee's customer base when I was last there was not especially old - absolutely not all 60s and 70s. I remember a good sprinkling of 40s and 50s. But for some reason they gradually disappeared. Can Jomtien Complex continue to thrive if the average age of customers is somewhat advanced and there are few if any of the new breed of Asian customers? What is your view? Just curious!

As a patron of many gay Thai massage spas in more than 25 years, I have never heard of a naked line up - sadly!

Not really! Whenever there are major raids, one or other top politician will usually be there to ensure his photo is splashed in the media. I believe when Babylon was raided in the early 2000s, the minister which had implemented the Social Order Campaigns, Purachai, was seen in all the media photos and videos holding up a used condom. It was, he claimed, proof that there had been naughty goings on inside. One comment somewhere claimed Anutin was a fool as the Minister for Health should have praised Babylon for the fact that patrons were actually using condoms and not indulging in bareback sex! After all, this was still a time when AIDS was on many lips. Agree that Anutin is dreadful. His aim is to become Prime Minister and I believe he will do all possible to achive that.

Fair points. But my impression is that the pedophilia issue had all but disappeared for all but a very few by 2010. It was certainly front and centre around 2000 but ten years is a long time and memories can be relatively short if what is on offer is attractive enough. Having visited so infrequently, I am hardly one to comment, but I did rarely see any Asian tourists in Sunee. Mind you, my last visit was close to 10 years ago. I am sure your third point is correct. As I have written in several posts, on the basis of what I read on other Asian-based sites and on what I hear from Asian friends, their gay interests are primarily on massage and discos. One reason perhaps is that the majority of Asian tourists like to travel in small groups and spend time doing things together. Bangkok offers much more. One other Pattaya question from me. I hear that Jomtien Plaza is doing very good business. How many in the customer base there is Asian? My expectation would be very small.

Since they have largely been treating most of the public in this way for quite a few years, I imagine an increase will not prove too much of a drain on the tax revenues given the country's increasing prosperity. Plus even in private hospitals, treatments and procedures are very substantially lower than in western countries. In pubic hospitals, I have had MRIs which cost 14,500 baht each and a Professor of Retinology to thoroughly check my eyes and previous retina damage for 2,000 baht. My abdominal specialist's fee is 200 baht with the hospital taking a 50 baht facilities fee! My expectation is that as tourism increases, the larger and richer private hospitals like Bumrungrad will just put fees up yet again to cover the cost of treatment of Thais.

Revolutionary, but the apps were certainly not the first and only way to find guys on line. gay.com and gaydar were just two of the websites which had a wide selection of guys from all over Asia. fridae, the Singapore-run site, was for its first years a major way of finding guys and it listed many tens of thousands around Asia. There was also at least one Thai site mostly in Thai but a good way of meeting young cute Thai guys. I certainly used it for a while. Perhaps more important surely is the rather sudden availability and spread of cheap mobile phones. Soon came grindr and the other gay daing apps. But if that was a reason for Sunee Plaza relatively quickly downhill after 2010, how is it that other gay areas in Pattaya and Bangkok have not collapsed so quickly?

If this was not Thailand, the mind would boggle that any pub could remain operating for three full years without a licence!

When Thaksin introduced the original healthcare plan, it was universally praised - except by the hospitals, even the much cheaper public ones, which would in future have to perform expensive cancer and other comlicated surgeries for the same 35 baht it would cost them to treat a cold. It took about four years but a large group of hospitals complained that they could be forced to close. Within a few years the government realised the scheme needed rethinkiing. So it removed the 35 baht charge and much healthcare became basically free for Thai citizens. Since then hospitals have been reimbursed out of general tax revenues. The new policy seems to extend benefits to greater numbers.

Many thanks @Marc in Calif. It's a very scenic part of the world especially at that time of year, despite clouds and occasional mist. I was unable to see the Northern Lights on the ferry due to low cloud in the evening. I had to wait until i got to the far north of Finland before getting some amazing photos.