PeterRS

Totally agree with z909. Thailand is mercifully free of graffiti perhaps because the penalties are heavy.

I guess you havent been to shows in some of the bars recently. The Sinatra version of My Way dates back to 1969. John Williams score for the first Star Wars movie in 1977 is only slightly more recent. Yet it is still used as a prelude to some of the shows. Golden oldies perhaps for an audience of not quite so golden oldies?

Ever since SGT was restored on Thailand servers, I bookmarked this URL to gain access - http://sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum/ It always worked until a couple of days ago. Now I receive an on screen message - service unavailable. The new URL seems to be https://sawatdeenetwork,com/v4/activity.php

It has been the same with me. Never once negotiated a tip in many years of visiting Thailand. Only once had a boy who wanted more but it was just a try on. But I do agree it spoils the encounter. Re Bangkok I read on another forum here that the special model boys in Moonlight expect between 5,000 and 8,000 baht, that is if they actually agree to go with you. Seems they have the right to choose. Also from what the Chinese ladies are offering in Jupiter 2018 seems the catwalk models there probably expect more than the basic minimum.

I can understand Beijing’s desire to bring itself closer to Taiwan. But a tunnel? And one of that length? With so many non-stop flights between the mainland and Taiwan and so many Taiwanese companies employing tens of millions of mainland Chinese in their factories and businesses, I fail to see any logic. Besides, I trust the engineers have factored in the many earthquakes that hit Taiwan fairly regularly. Some like the one in 1999 are devastating. Taiwan expects a magnitude 7 earthquake or above every 4 or 5 years.

I suggest part of the reason is pure laziness! I immediately add that I only speak a little Thai and constantly kick myself for not learning more. Tones are common in English, it’s just that we use them for emphasis. I have friends who speak very good Thaii - not quite fluent but very close to it. I have an American friend who lives in Shanghai. He learned Mandarin Chinese at a langauge school in Taiwan and now also speaks Shanhainese and Canrtonese fluently. Lest you think they are the same, Mandarin has 4 basic tones whereas Cantonese has 9. Say the word “gow” in Cantonese and amongst others it can mean nine, a dog and a vital part of the male anatomy depending on the tone level you use. I understand British civil servants in Hong Kong pre the handover in 1997 had to take Cantonese courses and speak up to a reasonably decent level!

Judging from past responses, there are a lot of people who will advise you to rent and not to buy. Like ceejay I bought and have made both an exchange gain and will have made a very handsome profit whenever I eventually sell - barring some natural disaster or a property crash. Given the growing number of Chinese buying now in Bangkok I think the latter is unlikely. But it has happened before and could obviously happen again. If ever there is another crash like 1997, selling at the price you want is likely to take a lot of time. I certainly would advise renting for your next few visits, if only to give you time to look more closely at the many different areas of the city. Most would prefer to live in the centre particularly if they plan on regular visits to the gay venues. But obviously that will involve a considerably greater initial financial outlay.

This is from the well-known Siam Legal website - https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/thailand-property-financing.php. When I purchased, it had all to be in cash. It does seem that there has been a degree of loosing of the regulations since then. Most of the financial institutions in Thailand provide loans for real estate purchases to local Thais and Thai companies based on similar criteria we are used to in our home country.\ However foreigners generally cannot mortgage properties in Thailand. In fact, mortgage lending by local banks to foreigners was virtually unheard of in Thailand. Nonetheless, in recent years we have seen a slight shift in policies to allow foreigners limited access to financing. This was instigated, in part, by the Thai government's eagerness to promote tourism and to encourage economic growth in Thailand

I really wonder if you can get a condo in central Bangkok at your suggested range of US$40-50K. Looking at a couple of property websites, a one-bedroom 25.25 sq m unit at On Nut is selling for 3.44 million baht - $104K. New 30 sq meter apartments much further out on the Skytrain lines are selling for $70K up. 33 sq m on Ruamrudee (off Wireless Road and close to Sukhumvit) has an asking price of 4.5 million baht - $136K. Further out on Ratchadapisek the asking price for 52 sq m is 2.7 million baht - $81K. Older 50 sq meter units in the centre are more likely to go for around 65,000 baht per sq m minimum = almost $100K. Obviously there will be little tucked away sois where you might find even older units closer to your range, but I think it will be difficult. Sorry I have no idea how to go about renting. I do know that in my condo building there are now quite a lot of empty units because renting for many months seems of less interest to owners. It's either airbnb type short term one or two week rentals or a couple of years. As for mortgages, until few years ago foreigners were not permitted to purchase in Thailand using a mortgage. There has been a slight easing of the rules but only by a few financial institutions and I understand the terms and conditions are stricter than in western countries.

As do I. Its just that in this case your opinion IMHO is wrong - DEAD wrong!

Suggestions Sofitel So is a lovely hotel but it is not right at the gay area. Great for Babylon but you still have to walk some way to get to Silom and even longer to get to Suriwong. There is an MRT station almost on the doorstep to get you to Silom. But by the time you get down to the platform, get your tickets, wait for a train and then get back up to street level, you will have lost close to 15 minutes, You are better walking. The Sukhothai is a gorgeous hotel, very unlike the chain hotels and with probably the best pool and sun deck in the city. Very popular with richer gay guys from around Asia. Also easy to reach Babylon. But it too means a good walk to Silom and more to Suriwong. Also beware. Its fabulous buffet breakfast costs around US$36. With 6 of you, that's over $210 daily for starters! Only consider if you get a rate that includes breakfast. Your idea of Le Meridien is ideal. Almost right bang in the middle of the action and it should come in around $150. I have stayed several times at The Crowne Plaza. Its an excellent 4 star choice. But in late April even agoda is charging around $170 a night. I cannot think of any 5 star hotel near that area which comes close to $100 a night. If you are prepared to look at one Skytrain stop away or a short 50 baht taxi ride, look at the Courtyard by Marriott off Rajadamri. Its also an excellent 4 star hotel and comes in at just under $100. As for nannies, ask each hotel. I am sure they will know of reputable and reliable nanny service. Flights to Krabi? BKK is easier to get to from the Silom/Suriwong area. If cash is not the primary concern, Bangkok Airways at BKK has its own lounge for all passengers regardless of cabin class. Its simple but provides seating and a calmer area to wait for the flight. The one concern you should have is traffic. If you are departing Bangkok in the morning, no problem with either airport because rush hour traffic is coming in to the city. On the return, the problem at DMK is mostly taxis. The queues tend to be long and a 30 minute wait is pretty usual. If you are flush, order a car from your hotel.

I think your analysis is spot on in most respects. Bangkok is certainly changing and the rate of change seems to be speeding up. As you mentioned earlier, the huge influx of Chinese tourists is helping create this change. But I think it started years earlier. Even as the western tourists continued to come and patronise the gogo bars and other sex venues, younger and richer Singaporeans. Hong Kong guys, Japanese, Taiwanese started to come in greater numbers. They come in small groups of 2 or 4. Many come for long weekends, stay in more upmarket hotels, spend in the malls during the day and go out in the evening. Anyone thinking these tourists who certainly have sex on the agenda but not at the top do not stay in the upmarket hotels should go to the 5 star Sukhothai Hotel on Sathorn during the main holidays like Christmas and Chinese holidays. Check the pool. It is like gay central. So many gay guys. Many in great shape. But these guys mostly dont off boys from the bars. They get sex in the saunas and massage spas. If they visit a gogo bar, its just for a drink and maybe a show. For those who complain about tips becoming too high, a dose of reality is needed. In the early 1980s the average short time tip was 500 baht. That equalled $20. $20 today is 660 baht. So a short time tip has increased by not much more than 100%. How many other services in Thailand over the last 35 years have increased by less than 100%?

Fantastic analyses. Thanks guys. I could never have worked all that out (and I happen to love Rosenkranz and Guildenstern are Dead)! Id like to add one point. I am against barebacking even with PREP. However the Avert statistic is that the % of msm in Bangkok is about 28.6%. In Thailand as a whole it is 9.15%. It does not analyse other cities. My guess is that Pattaya is likely to be around the same as Bangkok with Chiang Mai not far behind. Cannot guess about other cities.

This reminds me of a dreadful shooting in the USA about 25 years ago. A 17 year old Japanese exchange student only two months in the USA was invited to a Halloween party along with the son of the family he was staying with. The boys could not find the correct house. So they approached a house with the intention of asking directions. They rang the bell. There was no answer. They turned around to return to their car when the owner of the house opened the front door holding a rifle. He shouted Freeze. The Japanese boy did not know what he meant and started to move towards him. He was shot dead in cold blood. The killer's defence was that in the near darkness he was scared for his life and fired in self defence. The jury was out for about 3 hours before returning a not guilty verdict. Japan was shocked by both the killing an the acquittal.

And I feel sorry for those who make sweeping assertions based on little evidence.

To protect yourself against a chronic illness that would require medication for life, sorry "pretty good" is not good enough for me. I agree that medical advances are leading to all sorts of new medications to treat a large number of illnesses. But there is absolutely no guarantee that a vaccine against HIV or more effective medications will come on the market in the near or medium term future. Then there is this. Fact - HIV is now one of the fastest mutating viruses. There have been clinical trials of possible vaccines in Thailand and elsewhere. None has been effective. One reason is the fast mutation rate. Who knows when AZT will cease to be effective against new strains? With the mutations who knowns for how much longer PREP will be effective in approx 92% of cases?

A safety net with holes in it is certainly not my idea of a safety net.

With all the information available on the internet it is staggering that so many know so little about what could condemn them to a life on medication. The guy lwh101 mentions he "only takes PREP when he is having sex/working". The CDC site says this about PREP So he only takes it when he is working. Does that mean he pops a pill the day he leaves for Pattaya and stops the day he returns? Poor guy. I bet he does not take regular HIV tests beforehand either.

Funny point when it does not even make sense! PREP is not an anti HIV medication. Antiretrovirals are medication for those with HIV. PREP is a means of reducing the risk of contracting HIV. But as explained above it is at most 92% effective. Money boys may be prepared to give in and indulge in bb because they need the extra cash. What many boys will fail to realise is that 8% plus risk. And should they become infected with HIV, many are ashamed to admit it and to get medication. 18 year old Thai boys who have just entered the sex business are often focussed merely on the cash. Condoms have been around since biblical times. They are not going to disappear, even when the researchers have finally discovered a vaccine for HIV - if they ever do. Other diseases and viruses will appear. You are way too optimistic in trying to justify your lack of condom use. I wonder if you have medical insurance - either in your home country or when you travel. If so, how would you feel about your policy if it only covered you 92% of the time. Worse, you have no idea when you might fall into that 8% no cover trap? Say you have a sudden stroke or require open heart surgery whilst travelling. How do you then react when your insurance company tells you, sorry you are in the 8% uncovered period? If you are not prepared to accept that kind of risk, I am amazed you accept the 8% or higher PREP risk.

I also lived through that entire HIV/AIDS deadly saga from its first appearance amongst a few gay men in New York, spreading to the West Coast, from there into the wider gay population and, perhaps saddest of all, to haemophiliacs initially through infected blood. Remember Ryan White? By then it was a worldwide pandemic. I had a boyfriend who died of AIDS in 1987. Even though my heart was breaking my initial concerns were taking care of him and making him as comfortable as possible in a loving environment as I watched him dying. Only after his cremation did the fear that I might be infected and join him death, let alone infect others hit me like a sledgehammer. An HIV test was soon to be available but I was too terrified to take it. I decided not to be tested. For several years I had no idea if I was living with death. Then I faced up to reality and discovered I was negative. Those years are still firmly etched in my consciousness. I can never forget them and I never ever want to live through them again. Those who visit Thailand as sex tourists should take paborns admonition to heart - REMEMBER THE BOYS. Even today, even after all the campaigns to make youngsters of both sexes aware of AIDS and the means of contracting HIV, we still sometimes read on Thai gay forums about bar guys and probably girls returning home to die. Afraid to admit they had HIV or even to get tested they still needed the money. By the time they were too weak to work, their lives were all but over. Someone infected them. Maybe a tourist, maybe a family member. I have one young Thai friend who was repeatedly raped by his uncle in his early teens. By the time he went to university he discovered he was HIV positive. As a result his choice of career was closed to him. Even his best Thai friend does not know his status because he remains afraid of the social stigma. REMEMBER THE BOYS

The choice of bb or condom is clearly an individual one. But PREP is not 100% safe. There is still a possibility that the HIV virus will get through the PREP defences. Also it seems you are not aware of the statistics re msm in Thailand, especially in Bangkok. In its June 2018 Report AVERT, the global information on HIV and AIDS website, states that the prevalence of HIV amongst msm in Bangkok is over 28%! Even if a guy comes on your back or somewhere else, the chances are high that he is still leaving other fluids inside you. https://www.avert.org/professionals/hiv-around-world/asia-pacific/thailand The WHO guidelines do not state that PREP stops HIV transmission. Nor do the CDC guidelines which clearly state - Up to 92% indicates it could be less than 92%. Even at an 8% chance of transmission, I am certainly not going to use PREP instead of a condom. Sure condoms can break, but how often has that happened to any member here. It happened to me once around 1989. I now always use Japanese condoms which are extremely thin and have never broken. I am not prepared to take risks with either my life or my partners life.

Excellent comments z909 I think the one above is the one most often overlooked by newbies. The first time in a Thai gogo bar where you think you might want to off a boy in a country you have never visited before can be a daunting experience. So a degree of hesitancy is quite understandable. I always recommend to visiting friends that when they see the mamasan they immediately smile and say "Sawadee krap. I havent seen you for a long time. Is everything OK?" With the number of tourists entering bars I defy any mamasan to realize he has never seen you before. He then thinks you know the ropes and will not get up to any silly business. The only other thing to watch for is when the staff return your change. Most bars present the bill in a folder. Some of these have flaps at the side or bottom which it is easy not to notice. And in quite a few cases the waiter will have slipped 2 or 3 10 baht coins in there. When that happens to me I take them out and refuse to leave a tip.

Checking the IHG site these rates do not include tax and service. So the lowest payable rate for Pattaya is 5,190.57 per night. That falls within Michael's suggested range - just. And then the rates in the other cities will also be higher.

What a total scam! And to think people actually believe this crap! When you go into hospital for an operation and require several pints of blood, you have no idea who that blood comes from. Two of this pints are just as likely to be from a 20 year old as they are from a 50 year old. Does that mean you come out of the operation feeling younger? Of course. Because the surgery has helped cure your illness. It has absolutely nothing to do with having received a younger persons blood. Someone is going to make a ton of money out of this because some people will believe anything.

Having visited recently I can confirm the apps in Kuala Lumpur are humming. Plenty of willing guys. Few looking for money.