caeron

That there are two sides to this and that the truth lies between them is a bit of a tautology. The implication is that the truth is halfway between these points, which I have seen no evidence to support. There are plenty of horror stories about American healthcare. There are plenty of horror stories about health period. That these stories about socialized medicine are used as 'proof' that this form of healthcare kills people is asinine. US infant mortality, as I think I mentioned on another thread, is currently the equivalent of poland and slovakia. We aren't near to having the best health care in the world, just the most expensive. Quality, as any business person knows, is driven by standards that are rigorously adhered to and rigorously reviewed. Our free market health care isn't capable of acting in this fashion and the quality of health care delivered in this country suffers as a result. When we treat health care as a business, it will operate as a business. A business' objective is to extract the maximum possible money from its customers. It will upsell them things they don't need. It will imply that the base product is inferior. Does any of this sound familiar? How many people today buy premium vodka because some advertising has persuaded them that it is better? Now make it about your own health, and see how much health care businesses can extract from people. It is a pity that the debate at a national level isn't fact based and honest. The democrats are lying about the cost. The republicans are hewing to an ideological line ignoring the facts.

As long as we treat groups and corporations as people, we're going to have this problem. There is nothing in the constitution that suggests that the free speech rights that individuals have need to apply to corporations or groups. It is now the law of the land, but I think it has resulted in the confused issues of acceptable campaign speech that we now have.

Somehow I don't think these boards are going to be a place for deep insight into health care reform. Once the debate turned into death panels what very little hope I had about rational discourse died. The NPR poll was about a public option. It isn't necessarily in conflict with the one you cite. I believe based upon the expert I know that a single payer system with add-ons would be the best choice. That isn't going to happen, because for whatever reason socialized medicine = death here in the US, despite the fact that it delivers better quality of care. (infant mortality for instance in the US blows) People seem to be of the impression that letting every doctor do whatever leads to better care. I think the evidence suggests that centralized treatment policy gives better results. True experts can lay out guidance for less experienced doctors to implement. Horrors.

US doctors disagree with you 3-1.

Look at the number of birthers. I think there is a large pool of folks who do object to a black president. I think many republicans are happy to draw on that poisonous attitudes whether they believe it or not. They may not be racist, but they're happy to enjoy the fruits of racism.

This is on my cable modem. I would expect that most hotels have some limited bandwidth coming in that all users share. If the hotel is busy, or that line isn't very big, then you're going to get crappy throughput.

Apparently doctors think it's a good idea. NPR had a story on some folks who surveyed doctors and found that by about a 3-1 margin they wanted a public options, and 10% wanted just a public option. My father consults on health care quality controls world wide. He is in that 10%.

No, but saying that 16 year olds around the country are going to slit their wrists if somebody outs the lt. governor of south carolina isn't helping either. There are a lot of gay presences in the world today. Outing one closeted politician isn't going to change their world. The debate has been about the effect of the outing. If you want to change into gay bashing in high schools, we can. But it isn't on point.

I think time, mass media, and the internet has changed the world on this score. Ellen plays on TV stations all over the country. From any browser you can find a million folks like you. American Idol, the pop phenomenon has had Adam and Clay. Kids today see tons of gay folks of all stripes all around them, virtually if not literally.

I wish I could live in your world. In my world, the gay community has a lot of enemies.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say you were a hypocritical dick. I try to not engage in that level of discourse here, and if you took me to mean that was about you, I assure you it was not. I meant that was the lesson the 16 year old should learn. That the world is full of homophobia isn't news to a closeted 16 year old. Most of us have been there. That people are rejected because they are gay isn't news. Outing someone doesn't change this. Every closeted kid knows this already. I believe that being gay is like eye color or skin color. In a perfect world, calling someone gay would be much akin to calling someone black. It would only matter if you're a racist or a homophobe. Speaking the truth about closeted conservative politicians who have made hay out of bashing the gay community doesn't change any of the social dynamics that exist in our society. Being silent doesn't change any of those dynamics. I object to giving a free ride to enemies of the community that enjoy the fruits of our efforts in private while fighting us in public. There is nothing about one's sexuality that is secret or shameful. When we play into that, we just reinforce the societal perception that it is shameful, and therefore secret. I think we ought to be more out about it. "Hey Faggot, stop trashing us, you're one of us." That statement only stings if you have issues with homosexuality. Personally, I think that 16 year old is going to say "wow, I am not the only one. and I am not going to be like that fuck stain who lied to everybody." at least I hope that's what they'd think.

You apparently think the gay community owes privacy to its enemies. I don't. cope.

Don't be a hypocritical dick.

That's just silly. I should modify my moral judgements based on the assumption that what I do controls what others do? That if I don't out an enemy of the community that conservatives won't out a friend of the community? No. If you make yourself an enemy of the community, you are not owed privacy. Simple as that.

If they're conservative politicians working against us, I want them to be terrified.

He's a bachelor. And I don't think you can push someone like that further into the closet.

Ok, that does give me more sympathy, but I still think if you have trouble making good fiscal decisions you ought to know enough to get help.

Like who? People who slept with such a person? Their family that they've been lying to? Sorry, I have more sympathy for the folks of the out gay community who are hurt by the activities of closeted bigots. Obviously, I think the list of folks who have done enough to warrant this treatment isn't very long, but if you make your bed, you lie in it.

I think if you make yourself a public enemy of the gay community, the gay community owes you no privacy. Who cares if it fucks up your life? If it's that big a secret for you, then make sure nobody finds out. Don't enjoy the fruits hard won by our community while bashing it.

That's stupid. A guy wants to fuck them because orgasms are GREAT! :-)

Sexuality is more than a state of either/or. If these folks want to claim they have a gay guy fetish, let them. I think rather by definition though if the guy is banging them, he's bi. Which is cool, because I think there's too much pressure to self-identify in binary categories. I banged some chicks in college. It was fine. Wasn't the thrill of doing a guy, but I had a good time. I suspect many of us have slept with women at one point or another.

I hate that I have no coverage portability. I have a great plan, but if I get fired or quit, I'm screwed. We've been involved in a couple of hostile takeovers and it could happen to us and I'm out the door. We want competitive, risk taking workforces. Why wouldn't we want everyone to have reasonable access to health coverage? Why make losing a job carry such a risk?

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who are rich who still can't manage to live within their means. Hire a fucking accountant and listen to their advice. I work for my money, and I don't get to borrow $24 million and not repay it. Her work is iconic though, and it would be a shame if she loses artistic control over it.

I have 2 brothers. One worked in the towers, one in the pentagon. I didn't know for hours that neither was at work that day for whatever reason. I don't think anybody is forgetting any time soon.

I wish I could outlaw opinion commentators. I think hard fact has given way to this sea of commentators on both sides who blather their fact free opinions to adoring fans who shout hallelujah. Why think? One of these people would be happy to do it for you.