Leaderboard

Last night, I sat in my favorite haunt with J., my regular boy, whom I have been taken off almost every day whenever I'm in Pattaya since last Dec (1-year anniversary coming up). As usual, I asked him to pick a friend to sit with us. J., from Laos, called T., another Laos boy, over. He said "Although we are not close, I want to help him. I hardly ever saw he had customers. " T. is slim, not bad looking but quiet and reserved in manner (kinda out of place in this kind of bar), and on the older side in terms of barboy age (28). We talked and he indeed had few customers. Been working here for nearly two months, only 4 off so far, not so many drinks either, so he barely made it. While we were chatting, a customer, who was sitting alone at the next table, looked on with interest. Then he asked me in English if T. is also working in the bar, probably because he was fully dressed while all other boys (including my own) were shirtless. Feeling an opportunity is presenting itself, I confirmed and asked if he wanted to sit with the boy, explaining that although T. was sitting with us, I'm more than glad to let him switch tables. The guy appeared he wasn't sure what to do, saying that he's pretty new to the scene and still trying to figure out how things work. So T. remained at our table but the customer joined in the conversation on a translation-chain basis, meaning he said something to me in English, I Google-translated into Laos then showed it to J. who in turns repeated to T. It went like that for a while, and all of a sudden, the customer said loudly, to no one in particular, "It would be better if he takes off his shirt". When that idea finally reached T. down the translation line, he still looked sort of uncertain about what to do. It was time something needs to be done to speed things up. So I stood up, marched over to T., who was sitting across the table, and took off his shirt with my hands. Then I chaperoned both him and his drink to the next table, and gently pushed him down next to the customer. Now T. can communicate directly with the customer using google translation. Things started going smoother and the customer ordered two more drinks for himself and T. The customer is Dutch but lives in Spain. He said he is quite reserved himself so has great affinity for a shy boy like T., who, in the customer's words, obviously was not self-aware of how handsome he is. The customer himself is not bad-looking either, and J. confirmed he checked off several things on a bar boy's list "neat-looking, polite, no body odor, not too old, not too fat." "I'm not gonna take advantage of the boy the first time we talk. I can't promise that the next time though." He said. Gentlemanly conduct, but me think "Please. He's ready to be taken advantage of. That's why he's working here". Then I noticed there was still some (physical) distance between T. and the customer, who sat ramrod straight. I told J., who told T. to get closer. Since T. still didn't look like he knows what to do, I gestured for him to follow my lead: I nudged closer to J., hugged him, rested my head lightly on his shoulder, and placed a peck on his cheek. T., albeit a bit haltingly, followed suit, down to the pecking part. The customer, obviously seeing the whole thing, looked both amused and happy. He declared "I've been here for only three days and I'm already in love!" Again, I told J., who reminded T. to ask for the customer's contact. They later parted ways with what looks like a big tip for T. and the promise by the customer that he will come back and talk to the boy again tomorrow. I believe, he, being such a gentleman, will keep his word. I also believe I would make a good Mamasan in case I need a side job. To end on a warm note: late into the night, after J. went back to his room, I came back to the bar to watch the soi winding down. I looked inside and saw T., now totally shirtless, dancing energetically with other boys, smiling broadly when he saw me. He seemed to get that confidence boost he needed. Then I sat at the bar outside, chatted with the bartender and watched people. Somehow I might look a bit lonely and sad, to the point that another gentleman, who'd obviously mistaken me for someone in need of a customer, came to give me a hug upon leaving the bar and whispered in my ear "Don't be too shy. Things will get better!"

Left Bangkok last week for my twenty second year (have long forgotten how many individual trips but they must be closing in on 60). There we’re two things that stand out. First, was the opening of the first new gay bar in quite a while with the Dragon and Koi on Patpong 2. I believe it’s destined to do well, judging by the reception it’s energetic dancers have been receiving. Second, it’s the evolution of the massage business in Saphan Kwai. Although most of the shops are continuing to do wel due to the Continued arrival of newcomers, it’s the opening of Phoenix on Soi Inthamara 25 that stablished itself as unique. It’s all in, full service approach is superior to the competition because it eliminates the haggling. Eventually, I think, other shops will have to adopt the same policy or see their trade stagnate. One of my favorite moments each evening was opening the balcony doors and at about 1a.m. and listening to the muffled sounds of the workers collapsing the vendors stands on Patpong. My favorite view at sunset looking toward the river. Departure next morning from BKK wss nearly effortless, using the new immigration gate system. First one checks passport and second gate your photo .

I took a 3-month trip this year across 11 countries and 23 cities in Australia, India and South-east Asia. My first time in all of them. And while the focus of my trip was scuba diving, attending religious festivals, seeing friends, hiking, sightseeing, food, etc., I was very eager to experience the boys in Thailand. Especially after reading this forum for the past couple of years. Admittedly, I met a lot of boys in all of the countries. But they were typical Grindr/Sniffies/HeeSay hookups. Thailand’s massage boys and go-go boys were something new. I typically don’t pay for sex, but am occasionally fine with it if it adds novelty and variety to my sex life. BANGKOK HOTEL - I stayed at the Grande Centre Point Surawong Bangkok. A highly-rated 5-star hotel near Silom 6 (a hub of gay massage boys and go-go boys). It’s a beautiful property and I’d recommend it to anyone. DAY 1 - I arrived around 10:00 p.m. It was a long travel day and so I decided to get some sleep and get an early start in the morning. But my brain didn’t cooperate. Even after taking one, then two, CBD sleeping gummies (which typically knock me out in 20 minutes), I laid wide awake in bed for hours. I got out of bed at 2 AM and decided maybe cumming would help. I considered jacking off. But thought, “Hey…I’m here for the boys…let’s see who’s on Grindr”. I quickly found a hot guy who was close by. A money boy. He asked for 2000 baht ($60) and I accepted. I was excited for my first Thai boy. When he came over I asked him where he was from. He said Loas. The in-person chemistry wasn’t fantastic for me, but I just wanted to cum and sleep. So I fucked him and passed out. DAY 2 - After meeting a friend from India for lunch and doing some sightseeing, I was excited for my first massage boy experience. I decided to go to Silom 6 after reading all of your posts. It seemed to have the highest concentration of massage boys. I sat in a lot of traffic getting to lunch, so I decided to try the metro. It was fast and easy. Highly recommend. Much better than the roads. Just as described in other posts, I searched for 9-teen Massage Silom-6 on Google Maps and it didn’t take long to find. There is a black and white 9-teen Massage sign you can see from Si Lom Road. I got there around 4 PM and there were multiple massage parlors on Silom 6 alley-street. Each with about a dozen boys dressed in black sitting in front of the door. I slowly walked passed each cluster of boys, deciding which boy I was most attracted to. In the end, it was a cute, fit twink from a place called Paradise Spa. The 60-minute oil massage was 895 baht ($28). We went up a few flights of stairs and he invited me to take a shower in the shower next to the massage table. The place was nice. When he came back, he wanted to start the massage but I asked if he could get naked first. He said, “you help me, I help you, $1500 baht ($45).” I agreed. He got naked. Gorgeous guy. Average-sized cock. I asked him where he was from. He said Laos. I wondered if I would ever meet a Thai boy in Thailand. Haha. The massage was fantastic. While he was working on my back, he poured massage oil directly on my asshole again and again and again and again. My ass was drowning in it. Hahaha. I’m sure he was just lubing up the runway, but, unfortunately, I’m a top. When it got to the fun part, I asked him if he is gay. He is not and is only a top. So we just kissed a little, sucked a little, and jacked off. I was happy with the experience…but learned (as many of you have suggested) that if I want to fuck a boy, ask if they are gay or agree to it before selecting them. I walked back to the hotel to rest for a bit and shower before coming back to Silom for a night of go-go boys. Because my time in Bangkok was limited, I spent an hour re-readingd many of your posts to see how to make the most of one night and went early to check the places out. I started with Moonlight. I was the first customer of the night. All of the boys quickly stood at attention when I walked in. Haha. The entry fee was 500 baht ($15). I sat down, ordered a drink (all drinks 400 baht whether water, beer, or cocktail) and looked at the 20-or-so boys rotating on stage, all wearing white shirts. After 10 minutes, I told the mamasan which one I liked. He came over. We started talking. I asked him where he was from and he said…Laos! LOLOL. I couldn’t break my streak. I ordered him a drink and we talked for a bit. No real chemistry for me. I went to pay for the drinks and told them this was my first night out in Thailand and I was going to see some of the other bars and I’d be back. They said the show would start and 10:45. I said I’d come back for that. I then went to Good Boys and was also the first customer of the night. A much smaller place, smaller stage. Not as nice, but I was attracted to more of the 20-or-so boys. All shirtless. I pointed to my favorite. He came over. He said his name was Lucas and he was from Myanmar. Gorgeous guy. Huge smile. Super skinny. Kind of giggly. It was fun to put my arm around his tight, shirtless torso as we talked. I got a little hard. I definitely liked this guy. I bought us each a couple of drinks and then told the mamasan I was bar hopping and would be back. He told me the show time. I told her I would return. Next, Fresh Boys, just above Good Boys. I went through the same motions…picking a boy, buying us drinks. This time I bought one for the mamasan. And at this point I was feeling a little drunk. I found out the show times and definitely wanted to be back for this show since their show was cocks-out. For the next four hours I bounced between Hotmale, DreamBoy, Moonlight, Good Boys and Fresh Boys meeting as many boys and seeing as many shows as I could. Here is the summary: I didn’t meet one Thai boy the whole night. Haha. All the boys were from Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Malaysia and Vietnam. At least the ones I picked. The Moonlight show was boring as fuck. I left early. The Good Boys show was regular drag show. You can see that anywhere. The Fresh Boys show was my favorite in Bangkok. Cocks out and somewhat playful. Most of them wore condoms, both during the show and when they walked around to get touched and tipped by customers. I only touched one cock without a condom. I thoroughly enjoyed myself and look forward to trying some new places next time. At the end of the night, I went back to Good Boys and paid the 500 baht ($15) off fee for Lucas. He was with another customer when arrived at 1:30 AM and I waited for 15 minutes for him to break away. He said he thought I wasn’t coming back. I told him he was my favorite boy of the night, by far. We agreed on a 2500 baht ($75) tip. He got dressed and we took a 4 minute tuk tuk ride to the hotel. He didn’t bottom, but I was fine with it. He was gorgeous. Fun to talk to. Playful. Open minded. Cute hard cock. We both showered and then got into a rhythm of playing for a while then talking for a while. I asked him if he liked the work. He said 5/10. Depends on the night. He told me he usually gets offed by 10 guys a month. Between that and tips at the bar, he earns $1500-$1800 per month. Alternative jobs would pay $300-$400 per month. His friend and former roommate is only offed by 4 guys per month. We finished by cumming in each other’s mouths, exchanging numbers and then Lucas told me his real name. I went to sleep happy. DAY 3 - My plan was to do a day trip to Pattaya and come back to Bangkok late evening. But I decided to read a bit on this forum just to refresh myself on how to approach everything and I realized it was a bad plan. All the fun in Pattaya happens between 10 PM and 3 AM, and it’s a 2 hour ride back. So I booked a hotel in Pattaya for the night. PATTAYA HOTEL - I decided to stay near Jomtien complex and chose the Poseidon Boutique Hotel. It was a great stay. Super sweet staff. Cheap. Nice room. Very affordable mini bar. My only suggestion would be to add a foam topper to the beds…but I could say that about 70% of the hotels I stay in. I walked around the Jomtien complex multiple times…looking for a massage boy I liked. Sadly, I didn’t like any. So I directed my focus to the evening. Like Bangkok, I wanted to get an early start to get a lay of the land. I hopped in a GrabCar and walked around the Boy Town area for a while. I saw all the straight bars and clubs along Beach Road and Walking Street. And then I walked to Nice Boys. As has been mentioned here, nice Boys no longer exists. It has been replaced by “Boys Nighclub”. I’m sure they meant Boys Nightclub, but that is how it is spelled on both of the signs. As of this posting, you can still find the location by searching for Nice Boys on Google maps. Most importantly, the format has changed. This was my experience… When I walked in at 8:00 PM the mamasan welcomed me and I ordered a drink. There were 5 guys on stage. I would describe all of them as rough looking. She explained the format and from what I understood I could pick the guy I wanted to cum and pay 500 baht ($15) each. I picked 3 out of the 5. I was confused when all three started to masturbate…but only one was jacking off in earnest. Eventually the two others stopped. Finally the first one came and then I understood it was a cum contest…only the winner got the 500 baht. Because the place was a bit seedy and the guys were rough, I was ready to pay for my drinks and leave. The mamasan assured me many more boys would be there at 9:00. I told her I’d be back. I then went to some of the other go-go spots in Boy Town. Toy Boy had the most boys I was attracted to. And I decided I would come back to make my final selections there. I bounced back to the Nice Boys / “Boys Nighclub” for one last look. The mamasan was right. There were now about a dozen boys now and two of them were smoking hot. Sadly, they were occupied by other guests. The hottest one by far, model material, sat to my left. He was jacking off behind a pillow, he didn’t want the other go-go boys to see (but I could), and he had a huge asian cock. Gorgeous cock. The guest would fondle his cock and balls behind the pillow…then the boy would get back to masturbating. The guest to my right had two boys jacking off and this is how his night went. The boy on the left would cum and he’d slurp it up and order a new boy. Then the boy on the right would cum and he’d slurp it up and order a new boy. For him, at 500 baht ($15) per cum shot, he could suck cum off their cocks all night like it was an all-you-can-swallow buffet. He didn’t stop the whole time I was there. I ordered my own boy. He was cute enough and had a nick dick. He quickly opened some straight porn and went to work. I was a touch drunk and lost some inhibitions at this point. Haha. I sucked him 3 times and when he came I thought “what the hell”, and slurped up his cum like the guest on my right. The more the merrier. I decided to wait to see if the hot boy to my left would eventually get free. I saw him cum earlier and thought he’d go back on stage. But the guest had his hand on his leg and wasn’t letting him go. I don’t know what arrangement they had. I waited and waited. Eventually the boy looked my way and we locked eyes. The dead look in his eyes was as if his soul left his body months or years earlier. And I decided to leave. X-BOYS - When I first walked in, about 9:45, there was a skinny, 75-year old American wearing a long-sleeved, khaki, Boy Scout shirt being lifted at the waist and twirled around by a muscled go-go boy. The man was in heaven. His eyes closed behind his glasses. Smiling. Ever so lightly caressing the boy’s back as he was spun round and round. After a while the boy set him down, he tipped him, and then he chose another willing muscle boy to give him another ride. We all have our thing. And then it was time for the show. OMGGGG! X-Boys was of the highlights of my trip, for sure. THANK YOU to everyone on this site who recommended it. I was there for both shows, the 10:00 and 11:00. And it was everything you said it would be. Rape scene, two shower scenes, orgy scene, mini-golf contest, fuck scene, eyes-wide-shut scene, hard cock scene, breakdancing, so many more…it was so well conceived and performed. It was Erotic. Beautiful. Fascinating. I didn’t want it to end. I was worried that if I pulled a boy down from the stage to sit with me it would mean he wasn’t in the show, and I was right. So I tipped, tipped, tipped the performers the whole night. Two of the drink-boys sat with me through the shows. A younger one by invitation and one in his mid-30s by self-invite. Haha. I bought both of them drinks, the mamasan drinks, a couple of the performers drinks and myself a few drinks. I was in heaven. I was kissing both drink-boys. Making out with the younger one whenever I could. Fantastic kisser. Both of them played with my hard cock (through my shorts) during the show. I regretted wearing underwear. I’m sure they would have put their hands down my pants if I invited them to. I should have. My drink tab was 3200 baht ($100) and it was money well spent. I felt so bad…the place was only 1/3 full for both shows and I wanted to do whatever I could to support them. During the fuck show the boys walked into the audience…while fucking…soliciting tips. I had already tipped both of them. When they came to me, I pulled down the jock strap of the bottom and felt his dick and then I felt the hard wrapped cock in his ass as they were fucking, basically on top of me. Wow! I tipped again. I wish more visitors would support these shows and the guys that perform in them. I’d be sad if we lost it…as it seems the world has lost so much from Bangkok/Pattaya over the years. I will absolutely go back anytime I’m in Thailand. My only suggestion for the show is for them to mix up the acts. I think that might be one reason for the low attendance. I think it might be the same show every night. But again, BRAVO boys for an amazing performance!! I think I could’ve stayed and had more fun with the guys at X-Boys post-show, but wanted to go back to Toy Boy to see who was on stage. TOY BOY - Also nearly empty of guests on a Sunday night, Toy Boy still had about 20 boys on stage just after midnight. I talked to the mamasan and asked which ones were tops and bottoms. I wanted a 3some and wanted at least one bottom and one top/vers. He had told me that they “had a room upstairs” where we could play. I thought that would be easier than going back to my hotel, logistics-wise, so I picked the two boys and we went. I paid 2000 baht each, plus a tip for the mamasan, I think. Haha. I was still a little drunk at this point. It turns out that the “room upstairs” is a hotel next door…they must have a by-the-hour arrangement with them. The three of us showered and jumped into bed. Both of them were giggling a bit. They’d never been naked together. It was clear very quickly that one was gay-for-pay straight and the bottom was gay. The three of us fucked around for about 30 minutes…but I was connecting with the gay bottom, “Tree”, in part because he could speak English, and in part because he was enjoying it, so I eventually excused the straight who was only going through the motions. Tree was Thai and a real sweetheart. We fucked and talked and talked and fucked. I know this was a paid exchange, but it felt like love making. He said he was finishing university in Bangkok and got into some sort of an accident. He’s the youngest in the family and his older brother and sister said he needed to do something for money. The accident exposed how vulnerable he was financially. His brother said, “I’m working at a bar in Pattaya…you should come work with me.” He didn’t tell him what kind of bar. Haha. So Tree showed up to work the first day and was like, “What the fuck?”, but he eventually decided he liked the work and is still doing it. I asked Tree if his gay-for-pay brother still worked at the bar. He said yes. I asked, “what would you have done if I had randomly picked you and your brother for a 3some tonight? Would you do it? Enjoy it?” Initially, with a mischievous, horny smirk, he said yes. But then later when I asked again he said no. He didn’t want sex to ruin anything between them and, of course, I respected his answer. Eventually we both came and exchanged numbers. We’re still talking. I got a ride back to the Poseidon Boutique Hotel from a friend I’d made that night. An owner of a restaurant. It was 2:30 AM. I decided to walk around the Jomtien complex to see what was happening. All of the bars were wrapping up for the night. I popped into three bars and talked to a few guys. Then decided to call it a night. I was walking back to the Poseidon hotel and there was a group of guys sitting at a table on the street, close to the hotel. I said hi to all of them as I passed. I locked eyes with one. A hot 20-something wearing a yellow, L.A. Lakers jersey. I walked another few steps and turned around to look. He was standing up…staring in my direction. I thought, “If a guy stands up for you, you should go talk to him.” So I did. All of his friends were like, “OOoooooo-ooooooo”. After saying, “hey”, I asked, “Do you want to go up with me?” And he said yes. As we walked away, all of his friends went “OOoooooo-ooooooo” again. Haha. We immediately went up and both got in the shower. OMG. This guy was drop dead gorgeous. A 27 year old from Myanmar, he works at a bar in Jomtien. He was bright, funny, spoke great English, was brimming with muscles. And his cock! The biggest I’ve seen on any asian. Hard as a rock. I asked about his position…he said vers. I asked if we wanted to bottom and he said yes. We kissed hard for a while, talked for a bit, started fucking…and in missionary position I asked if he was HIV positive (normally something I ask earlier on). He said he was. I am on prep and he said he was undetectable, so we kept going. He said he used to be a money boy and used to do meth. He didn’t know if he got it from the sex or a needle. But he’s absolutely focused on his health right now. And it was clear that he was. We kept having fun and he came while I was fucking him. What a night! I’m so glad I stayed the night in Pattaya. DAY 4 - Just a few things of note: The floating market in Pattaya is a waste of time. I’m sure there are others in Thailand that are authentic and amazing. This one is a tourist trap. Nothing is real. IMO, the beaches weren’t that great in Pattaya and there are a lot of posts online about how dirty the water is. If beaches are a driver to visit here, head out to an island for a day. Better beaches and cleaner water. I got screwed by “The Limo Pattaya” service recommended on this site. We set up a time. I confirmed the day before. The time came. I reached out 20 minutes before to confirm the driver was coming. Nothing. I called and he said, “Give me a minute. Let me look to find a car in your area”. What?? Why did you confirm the day before? WHAT are you confirming the day before? That you will look for a car in my area 20 minutes before my pick up time? Then he wrote and said he couldn’t find a car. Anyway, super frustrating. Grab was the same price. I’ll just use Grab in the future. On the way back from Pattaya, I decided to stop by Zoo Spa and Onsen. BREAKING NEWS - they’ve moved! Next door. I’ll post a photo of the new place. The guys are gorgeous, but the massage and the tip is 2x to 3x as much as you’ll find in Silom 6. Between the premium price and the 45 minute wait for the boy to arrive (in-call only) and not knowing if there would be in-person chemistry, I decided it wasn’t worth it and left. I went back to Silom 6 to see if there were any massage boys I liked. There were four, but they were all straight. So I said “no thank you” and went back to the hotel and had a hot (free) Grindr hook up with a sexy 30 year old Thai bottom. DAYS 5-10 I went to Phuket for 3 days. Had an incredible time on the islands. Only Grindr hookups here. I then went to Chiang Mai for the Loy Krathong “Festival of Light” / lantern festival. FYI - the sanctioned, out-of-town lantern event was chaos x Chaos x CHAOS. I’ve never experienced a clusterfuck of that magnitute in any country. Sexwise, for me, Chiang Mai was a mix of Grindr and HeeSay hookups. And one go-go bar named Adam’s Apple Club. I was there for two hours during prime time. I’d give it a 3/10. Mostly because the guys are average looking, the go-go scenes are cliche and uninspired, and, according to the mamasan, all straight. (I like gay bottoms who are into being bottoms). I spoke with a guest who moved to Chiang Mai 20 years ago. He’s being going to Adam’s Apple for-e-ver and has known most of the models for 7-10 years. To me, that explained why the performers were just going through the motions. They’d done the same thing every night 1000s of times. I don’t blame them, but I didn’t find it enjoyable. He also said he gets massages for 250 baht ($8). I always paid more…but I’m not a local. And that mot of the straight go-go boys at Apple will do anything you want…you just have to agree in advance. I felt a number of hard cocks (no condoms here) and tipped the boys as they walked around. But I wouldn’t go back. And that was my time in Thailand. I hope you found some of trip report informative and entertaining. My advice to first-timers in Thailand: Read this forum and get familiar with everything before you go. There is a lot to learn and things are changing all the time. Download the Grab app for car transport. It works just like Uber. Download Line for texting. It works like WhatsApp. Take the metro as often as you can in Bangkok. Big time saver. Get familiar with how each massage place works. Many have boys on demand. Some are in-call, reservation only. Contact those places on Line in advance. Because Bangkok is so big, I’d combine sightseeing with checking out massage places. For example, the Chatuchak weekend market is somewhat close to BT House Men Massage and Gbeat Massage. Would I ride the metro for 30 minutes just to go and check out a few massage boys? Probably not. Would I walk a few blocks after the weekend market to see which boys might be available? Yes. I suggest creating a physical or digital map with all of the sightseeing spots, restaurants and massage places you might want to visit, and leverage the proximity. In Pattaya, for your hotel, I would decide, “would I rather take a boy to my hotel from a bar in Jomtien complex or a go-go boy from Boy Town?”, and pick a hotel near that spot. They are both relatively close, but I’d rather not have to deal with finding a taxi late at night for a hookup. Don’t miss the X-Boys show in Pattaya. It’s totally worth going to both shows. You may consider wearing no underwear and some loose shorts if you want to get a little drunk and handsy while you enjoy the erotic performances. I loved my first trip to Thailand. I may be back next year. : )

What a delightful surprise when I wandered into the new club called Atlas in Patong Soi 2 last night. Big spacious bar, well lit stage right in the center, everything modern and comfortable. And there on the stage were all of the boys from The One / Tawan. They have all quit The One, and are now working at Atlas, which just opened a few days ago. The bar is owned by Arthur, who long time Tawan patrons will remember as the big mixed Black/Asian bodybuilder from Tawan days. As frequent visitors will know, The One never regained the atmosphere of Tawan; it became stale and less inviting, and the show was tame and uninteresting. By contrast, Atlas last night was fun, lively and uninhibited. At least 25 guys, all the top talent from Tawan plus a few new faces. All muscular and fit, if not necessarily lean. These are big muscular men. None of the older fat guys that had come to haunt Taiwan a few years ago were in sight. Fortunately, those days seem to be behind us. The show is back to being hard core and explicit, with lots of audience interaction. Sound and lighting are top notch. The show could have been a little longer, but they just opened a few days ago. I go there to have fun in the bar, not necessarily looking for an off. The guys were friendly, affectionate, and uninhibited. I don’t drink much but I opened a bottle to help them celebrate. I was soon surrounded by guys who, for a tip, were happy to take off their pants and sit with me and drink naked. I’m a bit of a voyeur, so after the show I convinced several of them to also do their rotations on stage stark naked. What a treat. Service was excellent. Arthur seems to be a very competent manager. No admission charge. Drinks were 500 baht, which is steep but worth it to me given the environment. All in all, highly recommended. I hope they can make it a success.

Back a few years ago, I said I met the love of my life at Tawan. Well, there were many naysayers. But, here is the thread: So, skip forward a few years, we are still together and doing great. He has been an amazing addition to this old man's later life. He keeps me busy, on my toes, and entertained. Not easy to do, but sometimes, you just know on the first meet. The BF of over 20 years, I knew that day. And, we are still together (kinda) as he has a farm now and lives with his family but talk daily. When I call, he comes that day. When I need him, he is there. When he needs me, I'm there. As for the love of my life, he has been a true joy. Don't let the people tell you that romance dies at a certain age or that every bar boy is the same. They are not. They are often diamonds in the rough and it takes patience, love, attention, and money.

It may be because I've just returned from Thailand and am, bluntly, fed-up....that I can sympathise with visitors who have disappointments there; we all do, whether it be an unsuccessful "off" or, in my case, a poor meal. Very few of those, by the way! However, for someone contemplating a grey, chilly day in London, thousands of miles away from his loved-one I must encourage adopting the Buddhist principle of (as P tells me, ad nauseam) "thinking good." It is true that, the older I get, the harder it is to look on the bright side but, for heaven's sake, the vast majority of guys on the scene whom we meet are friendly, reasonable in their demands. And fun. That was my experience, anyway. For me, just to wander through the JC before bedtime (embarrassingly early in my case) enjoying the cheerful smiles, the enticing offers- cheerful and not persistent when refused- and the sheer joyfulness (at their best) of the guys is something I treasure. And even more so in retrospect. I just like being smiled at! Is there anywhere else in the world where such pleasures are available so cheaply and so safely? and when the assignation isn't so good, it is so easy to say, "Mai pen rai; tomorrow's will be better". And it will be.

I spent a week in PP catching up with a Canadian friend and we visited a lot of the specified places together. I have tried to be as factual as possible and I’d like to thank FloridaRob, vinapu and Harrystiilees for the info they gave me before my trip. A few general observations: Since my last visit 10 years ago, the traffic seems to have increased dramatically and certainly the car is king here. Be very careful crossing roads as some traffic do not adhere to traffic lights and pavements in many parts of the city are non existent. I felt safe wandering around the city but do ensure that you have enough lower denomination dollar notes as higher denominations can be difficult to spend. Tuk tuks plentiful and $2-3 dollars seemed to be the standard fare. Bars I visited Space Bar which was next to my hotel (Sun and Moon) twice. I met the owners, one of whom is from Spain and their adorable dogs that are friendly and in the bar. The waiters/hosts are incredibly fit and hot and tend to be more muscular and they will sit with you if you buy them a drink. Some guys spoke reasonable English and got very playful as the evening progressed. Some guys took their shirts off after midnight and were quite touchy feely. Very flirtatious but it ended there. The drinks were of a very good quality and it was. Fun place to visit with an interesting mix of local boys and visiting tourists and expat locals. I visited again and the same host guys I talked to on the first visit tended to monopolise my table despite the fact I was interested in talking to some of the other guys. It is the luck of the draw if you choose guys to sit with you who can’t really communicate except by translation apps. Around 12 host guys there when I visited. I would certainly recommend this friendly and laid back bar as a fun start or end to your evening. Fantastic eye candy. We spent a great evening at Toolbox bar. Doug the owner is a lovely, approachable guy and was happy to chat and give advice about PP. We went around 9pm on a Fri and there are about 20 host guys and 6 customers but the bar got busier with visitors from 10pm onwards. It was a great atmosphere especially as the boys did a number of interesting dance routines on the pool table! Very much a party atmosphere and the music was varied and fun. The boys are certainly of the twink variety and they were friendly, good looking and tactile. Drinks of a great quality and the bar also serves a selection of hot food. This was the bar that we enjoyed ourselves the most in PP and we stayed around 4 hours. Well worth a visit if only to see the beautiful boys there. We visited Blue Chili which seemed to be a large venue but didn’t stay as we were the only customers there. When passing again on a Friday evening, the place seemed completely packed and people were queuing to get in. It seemed to have a mixed crowd and we were told the busiest nights are Friday and Saturday. Massage I had some variable experiences during my time in PP. I visited Paradise Massage which is above the POC bar. Only one guy available to give massage and he was a young twinky type. Massage ($15 for an hour oil massage) was quite poor with little technique and expertise. I ended the massage early as it was not enjoyable. The premises look quite run down and general cleanliness was an issue. I would not recommend this place. I visited Hatha Khmer twice and I was delighted by the massages there. There were around 15 guys to choose from when I visited and you choose your guy from behind a window where they assemble, a bit like arena in BKK. A good range of guys that would satisfy most tastes. The first massage was an hour’s oil massage ($10) and the guy certainly was experienced and knew what he was doing. An excellent, firm massage and the $30 dollar tip was well deserved for the many extras he provided. The second massage was an hour and a half oil massage for $15 and the different masseur was good but not as firm or experienced as the first guy and this showed in his massage technique. The invariable fun that followed was prolonged and unrushed and a $30 tip was well earned. He even offered to bring another masseur into the massage room for fun if I wanted that. I was very happy with the venue which was clean and well decorated, the choice of hot guys as well as the quality of the massage and the extras. Well recommended. Saunas I visited 2 saunas during my stay. Love Spa is just around the corner from Hatha Khmer massage. It was $3 entry and it was quite busy at 5pm mid week. As far as I could gather I was the only Western guy there and the guys were primarily Cambodian. When changing, it was a bit disconcerting to have around 5 massage guys watching me and asking constantly if I needed a massage. Certainly the most aggressive approach I came across in Cambodia. The thing about this spa is that the spa areas and corridors are completely dark and it is like walking in a darkroom. For me, this was quite dangerous as I tripped over as I couldn’t see where I was going. I decided to leave as for me, it was an accident waiting to happen. My friend was staying at Arthur and Paul hotel. I visited on a Saturday night to go to the spa and it started to get busy after 9pm. $10 entry fee. The bar area is spacious and lovely and the pool area is a good place to relax, swim and talk to other guys. There seemed to be a lot of younger Cambodian guys in attendance. Again, the issue for me was the lack of light and the spa area and showers were too dark for me to walk around safely. Guys are friendly around the bar, pool area and changing room and this is a great place to link up with cute Cambodian guys. My friend, who was staying at the hotel enquired about the darkness level and one of the Cambodian guys stated that Cambodian guys are quite shy and don’t want to be seen having sex in a spa! As an addendum, my friend loved staying at A and P and raved about the breakfast, staff and massages which he deemed to be excellent ($20 for an hour plus tip). The staff here are good looking guys who will look after you if you decide to stay at the hotel. Apps I got lots of messages from guys on the usual apps (Grindr, Hornet and Heesay) but did not manage to hook up with anyone due to time constraints. I hope you find this info useful. I’m back to Thailand now for a Christmas and a break! Happy Christmas!

Hi everyone, I recently arrived in Bangkok and thought I would update with what's been going with me so far. The day of my arrival happened to coincide with the Crete Party (which is mentioned in a post in the 'Gay Bangkok' section, thanks to @bkkmfj2648) and seeing it was taking place in the hotel that I was staying at, I thought I would give it a go, despite the hefty foreigner price tag (5500 as opposed to 4900 for locals - although not too much of a difference) and I was in contact with @jason1975 to go together. The arrival time of my flight and the time that registration started was already a little bit tight for timing, but I would be able to make it work. Except that my departing flight was now scheduled to leave an hour late. Okay, so I resigned that I was going to be late. I contacted the organisers and they said this is okay. Anyhow, flight on Thai Airways Royal Silk class was smooth and was fed quite a lot of food, landed at 16:15, walking to immigration took a little while but immigration didn't take too long. I think I was eligible for fast track but I didn't worry about it. Luggage came out as soon as I got to the belt (usually I travel light but I thought I would take a suitcase with me this time as I am here for a while), raced down to the basement floor to exchange some cash as I only had 500B to my name, and off I went onto the ARL then switched to the MRT at Makkasan/Petchaburi all the way to Silom. Seeing it was a Saturday night I wasn't expecting the trains to be so full. Yes I could have gotten a taxi but I don't generally take taxis unless I really really have to. Anyhow, reached Crowne Plaza around 18:15, unpacked a little and changed my shirt (didn't even have time to have a shower, yes gross), and raced downstairs to the Crete Party to meet @jason1975 and @Raposa - first time meeting both and really nice people. I was only an hour and a half late and I didn't miss too much. I won't go into much detail about this part as Jason has already mentioned it in great detail in his trip report, but all in all it was a really nice way to spend my first night back in Bangkok. I had not been here since January of this year. After the party we went to Jupiter, and whilst not the most favourite of places, the guys are amazingly attractive and some of the shows were quite good. I did have my eye one of the guys, but I was already super exhausted and just really wanted to get back to the hotel and have a shower and catch up on some sleep. I said my goodbyes at around midnight and that was it for the night. I'd like to also mention that this trip that I'm currently taking is the longest one that I've ever taken - I'll be here for 2 months so I'm just going to take it easy and not be too rushed, and not centre my holiday so much around boys (although there will be quite a number I would like to meet). I'm staying in a number of hotels in Bangkok and also visiting common touristy places such as Pattaya/Jomtien, Phuket, Koh Samui as well as Khao Lak, Koh Yao Yai and Koh Tao (thanks to @bkkmfj2648 suggestion in another thread). The following day I had a 2 hour massage at Prime (1 hour Thai/1 hour oil) which was amazing and later on in the evening I met Jason and again other forum member for a drink at Hotmale beer bar which was fun and then over to Dreamboy where we had a booth seat near the front which is where I never sit (I prefer to sit right up the back) but since I am with company, it was good to sit up the front. Upon entering, my favourite boy waved at me and I called him down and we had a nice catch up, and he was happy to see me and happy to be offed that night. The bar was not very full for a Saturday night, but I guess high season is coming very shortly. We watched the shows some of which were new and some recycled but it was good to watch something that I would not be able to in my own country. It was good to gossip with Jason during the show. Boy came back with me for short time and then went to the gym afterwards. The next day I had another appointment at Prime, 0.5 hour scrub (which he got into every nook and cranny) and 1.5 hour oil which was actually quite sensual and good coverage, with no modesty draping. After lunch I went back to rest at the hotel and was planning to go to Karaoke with Jason and his boys, but I ended up having some stomach troubles so I thought it would be best to stay in, much to my dismay. Luckily it was short lived. For now, I've now moved into another area of Bangkok, away from Silom, as I've just had some minor surgery so I will probably not be too active in the next week or so whilst I recover, but I am here for a while so plenty of time for more shenanigans. There is just so much to do, and I am just so happy to be back in my happy place!

I'm now travelling outside of Bangkok, so here are some notes from recent times. It's been a little quiet on the guy-front whilst I've been in recovery, so not too much excitement to report on as of yet. I tried out a couple of hotels (that I haven't tried before) in the general area - BnB98 - I found this whilst perusing google maps. It's in the same small alley as Pula Silom and G.O.D nightclub, and I thought I would give it a try since it didn't look too bad and is well-located. This is a strange one though - you can book via the usual channels (booking.com/agoda) however there is no reception (there is a cafe downstairs that is run by the same people as the hotel - I think). Basically they will send you a one-time-code to open the room and inside is a door card to use for the remainder of the trip. Since there is no reception, my passport details were not taken so I am not sure how they get away with not reporting your stay to immigration (as hotels usually do). Anyhow, the prices are reasonable and there are also some cheap rooms with shared bathrooms. I was booked in for 4 nights, but I lasted 1. My issues - the door did not have any secondary lock from the inside. Since there was no reception, the front door is always open so anyone could just go up into the building. It is so noisy - I could deal with it being so close to the BTS, I could deal with the noise of the nightclub nearby, but I couldn't deal with the man singing karaoke at 6am. The bathroom blinds also didn't fully cover the windows so it's possible someone in the building opposite may have gotten an eyeful if they were looking close enough, and there was no room safe. Some of these things I already knew from reading the reviews, but I just couldn't do it! I thought it would be good to be right up in the action, but I think I would prefer to be slightly a distance away. Or a better hotel with more amenities. Silom Convent Garden Hotel - I actually read about this hotel in a report from Vinapu so decided to try. I ended up getting a very good deal on one of their bigger rooms whilst booking direct online, which the receptionist told me was an error on their side and I should not have gotten it for that price, but he had to honour it since I already paid for it. This place is closer to Chong Nonsi but still in walking distance to all the fun places. The place is quite dated and falling apart slightly but is still fine, and what I especially liked about my particular room type is that it had a washing machine, which was very handy. I probably wouldn't stay there again, but it was good to try somewhere on the other side. It is also right next door to Sauna Mania, and a short distance to Arena for those who are interested. Massage - Senso - I visited here hoping to see the guy that I met in January who I had an excellent time with, but he was not to be found and the manager hadn't heard from him either (I ended up messaging him later on Line and he confirmed he wasn't working there anymore and told me where he was now working). Anyhow, as I entered, another guy entered at the same time as me, however he left shortly afterwards. Perhaps he wasn't keen on the lineup? or the price? The pricing structure is new, compared to how it was previously - a 90 minute massage will cost 3300 THB and is an all-in price that includes both the massage and the tip. I forget how much the 60 minute option cost. I asked the manager to tell me who can do both top and bottom (as I like to flip-flop) and he pointed out who was able. The line up was mostly hunks, but there was this one twink guy that I had my eye on so I ended up choosing him. I had only been to Senso twice before, once in January as already mentioned, and once last year, and I briefly wondered if the guy I chose was the same guy as last year but I couldn't quite remember, and for some reason I remember him being taller. Anyhow, we went upstairs where I firstly had a shower and he then had a shower, and started with the massage which tbh wasn't super sensual but it was okay, and then the afters started which was pretty satisfying. We flip-flopped a few times which was lots of fun and afterwards we had a shower together where he helped me wash the massage oil off. It was at this point that I saw his tattoo of his name that I put 2 and 2 together and it was the guy that I had last year. I didn't recognise him, but in all fairness, he didn't recognise me either lol. We later confirmed when I tried to add him as a friend on Line, he was already my friend. I had a satisfying time, but the guy I had in January, I felt I 'connected' with him more. And the sex was way hotter. So that's me updated for now, will write again when I have more to write about!

I'm in a mood of reminiscence today, so in the spirit of the Bangkokbois and his Dancing with Devil series, I'll relate here some of my own falling in love with a bar boy. I met my special boy, J., in Jomtien a year ago. When we first met, I thought he's the best looking boy in the bar at that time (and that's saying something because that bar is full of boys my type). He told me he only started work 4 days ago, already received quite a few offers for off, but he said no to all of them. "If I don't like and feel comfortable with a customer, I won't go with him to the hotel." "Would you go with me?" I asked after more than an hour sitting with J., talking about his life back in Laos, his family and also his previous love life. "Yes." There's no hesitance in his answer. "For how much?" "2000" "Why so much? Other boys only ask for 1500, and many would go for 1000." (to be honest, if he asked for 3000, I would still agree because he's exactly my type - body, face and personality even (and a killer smile to top it off), but I feel it's my obligation to bargain so as not to upset the market and some fellow customers "I know, but I want 2000." "Is 1500 ok?" "No, 2000." J. was firm. "Why?" "Because I never go with anyone before and this is my first time." (not sure about the logic of that argument, but I gave up haggling quickly, feeling thankful he didn't ask for 3000). So I paid the bar fine (300), my own drink and the boy drink (150), and off we went to Boyztown, where my hotel is. On the baht bus, I asked him a question I usually ask boys "What type of guys do you like to be your boyfriend?" "Someone like you." was his answer, again with no hesitance. At that time, I just laughed it off (well, bar boy standard line) and told him exactly what I thought "You would say that to all customers." "No, I do not." He seemed upset. After almost a year together, I finally believe he meant what he said that day. The next day, I'm back to the bar in order to off him again. I was early but he's already with a customer, someone from Australia. So I sat with another boy, whom I chose randomly, at a table opposite, so that I could watch what's going at the other table (I know I should not do that but I can't help myself). The customer seemed smitten with J.. He hugged the boy all the time, ordered food from outside, even bought him a bouquet when a door-to-door flower seller stopped by. At my table, ironically, things went the other way around. The boy sitting with me (who happened to be D. also a new boy, who started work as the same time as J.. He is the one who was asked to give a customer 40-min blowjob I talked about in the other thread), seemed very passionate and clingy. He hugged me tight, his hands all over my body, even found their way inside my underwear. He placed my hand on his shorts to show me he's already getting hard. Kept asking me if I want to off him. Unfortunately, my attention was all on the other table. To be fair, the cheerful Australian who sat with J. seems a very nice guy, except that he... sat with J. And then, he paid the off fee. "So much for I only go with someone I like and feel comfortable huh" I thought. Why I felt so upset about a money boy I just met? He's a money boy and that's what he does. I kept reasoning with myself all the way to M-bar, another bar where lots of boys know me. I need a distraction. And you know what, there's that customer again with J. sitting in a dark corner. Obviously, they just moved bar. I don't want to stay there, so I left again. Enough for today, I decided to go back. When I reached my hotel in Boyztown, I got J.'s message. It turned out he only agreed to go drinking in another bar (the customer did ask him for a hotel visit at the end of the night but he turned that down and still received a generous tip of 1500B just for being a companion) and he was free already. J. also seemed upset because he actually checked with D. to see if I eventually offed D. and D. somehow got the idea that I would come back to off him after I'm done with bar hopping. I don't recall saying anything to that effect, but after all, I don't remember whatever I said to D. back in the bar. The third day, I learned my lesson and told J. in advance I will come to take him off. On the bus, I received his message "Where are you? There's a customer who wants to sit with me, so I have to check with you. You want me to wait for you or is it okay I sit with him first?" Of course, I want J. to wait for me, but I also want him to make more money with drinks so told him it's ok to sit with the customer, I could wait until he's free. What a wait it was. The customer, an Asian one and quite young this time, sat with J. for nearly 3 hours through a bunch of drinks, probably trying to get him to agree to a hotel visit. After nearly 2 hours, I got impatient and messaged J, saying if the customer wants to off him, he can go but let me know so that I don't waste my time waiting. "NOOO, I want to go with you" came back the instant answer. Then, I decided to watch the show in M2M bar to kill time. About 45 minutes into the show, I got J.'s message "Come, quick, before I have another customer". It feels like a who-gets-to-the-bar-boy-first competition. I quickly paid the bill, left the show midway, and walked briskly back to the bar. J. literally ran from inside to meet me at the entrance with his stuff. That trip, the only boy I offed is J. and the rest is history. PS. Last night, on our way back to my hotel situated right in JC, J. ran into a customer, who sat with him a few times in the bar. "Where are you going?" The customer asked on passing by. "To hotel" J. flashed his irresistible smile, pointing at me. The customer stopped mid-stride, turned and did a double take. J., to a hotel, with a customer?

I thought worth a new title as this place bound to be much talked about. At behest of Vinapu I attended opening night of new bar Atlas. It is opposite Hot Male on site of previous Sol and Dreamboys. In summary it is Tawan moved to a bigger and better venue. Focus on muscle and seemed to be largely drawn from previous staff and performers at forementioned. Show had same ingredients as I recall from Tawan - Bodybuilding displays - then ladyboy singers, aiming for comedy - Then the muscle show and as explicit as you see these days with blow jobs and one twink being fucked and toward end the tip for cum show. - also the big cock and floor boy rotations Mix of boys - Some genuinely good muscle, some a bit hefty, odd twink, oldish on whole and same approach of being very interactive with audience - Joining for drinks and circulating for big cock show. it helped there were some guests, including Vinapu’s friend, who opened bottles and were tipping - also a very generous Chinese man giving red notes infinitum and cans of soft drink. This creates ambiance and reduces the sense of pressure on others Audience maybe 40 patrons over evening. Very, very few women. if you liked Tawan, you will like this place Question is can they rebuild that ‘offer’ and will they see inevitable closure of ‘the one’ which replaced old Tawan.

Let's make one thing clear: I'm not trying to romanticize anything. I'm trying to tell things as it is. I don't even let myself be dragged into pretty pointless (to me) arguments, such as "what is real love" or "Transaction-based relationships are not real" blah blah. I never deny that money is important in JC "love stories". Please, those working boys come from poor family, of course, money always matters! To many of them, money is not just a means to achieve goals, money is the goal itself. I always look at it this way, to quote my favorite character from my favorite show (The Big Bang Theory) Bert: You guys are nice, but I'm just gonna buy Rebecca a Jet Ski and see if that gets her back. Raj: (once Bert left) I feel bad for Bert. Sheldon: So he's using his money to attract a mate. Is that any different than me using my intelligence to attract Amy? Or Leonard using his power of groveling to get Penny? Raj: Sheldon, what did Amy have that attracted you? Sheldon: Oh, so many things. Her mind, her kindness, and especially her body. Raj: Really? Amy: Relax. We're the same blood type. He knew he could harvest an organ. Ask yourself this: why the boy chose me among paying fellow customers? Because of my good look? my personality? the way I care? I give him more money? Or because nobody else was interested? Or a little bit of everything? Whatever the reason, you obviously have something to offer that others don't, at least, at that moment in time and place. So what if you entice the boy, first and foremost, with your money? At least, you have money. And later on, if he finds out about your other endearing qualities and grows more attached to you, doesn't it make it even better? I once half-jokingly asked J. what else, apart from my money, made he fall in love with me. His answer is brief and, as clichéd as it may sound, still moves me "because of what I feel when I'm with you." About two months ago (we were in a hotel in Vientiane at the time), in the middle of the night, J. suddenly turned to me and hugged me so tight, his whole body shaking, he woke me up (he was never a clingy type when he sleeps). Then he stopped and I went back to sleep. The next morning, I asked him about what happened. "I had a terrifying nightmare. That's why I hugged you. I now don't remember much about what I saw in my dream, but as soon as I hugged you, I feel safe again." Should I ask for more?

I think that it is more about setting limits and compartmentalizing your life. You give money for a service of some kind. They aren’t seeing you for free. Also, in your home country, I don’t think that you would socialize with guys that you are paying. The paid guys and your regular friends would probably be two social circles that do not mix. Since you are now living in Thailand, even if only part of the year, I would treat it similar to how you would have behaved in your home country. I have not been to Pattaya, yet. However, I think that living away from the scene would be a better idea than living too close. That way, you don’t have to walk past the massage shops and bars when doing your daily errands. It isn’t about being bitter or jaded. Just be clear in your own mind that you don’t give money away for free. That is just the way it is. No need to get angry or worked up or guilty or anxious, etc. That is just the way that it is.

@Moses I want to say that I appreciate ALL the help that you have done over the many years that I have known you (almost 12 years), including (apologies if I forget anything in the below list😞 you helped my friend Woody, a Shan State refugee get on his feet (he always feared to be deported) by trusting my recommendation to give him a chance to be a tour guide for Siam Roads. I am so PROUD of Woody, as he now has legal papers to reside in Thailand, he eventually bought the massage shop where I met him, Classic House Massage Shop - in Chiang Mai, he built a home for his mom back in Shan state in troubled Myanmar, he bought a new car which he uses for his tours, he created a wonderful tour business --> which I used his tour services a couple of times with his partner, Non. Moses - your trust in me (and also Woody) - allowed Woody to find the right path to success and I will always be grateful to you. Thank you Moses. Moses - you gave a chance to many of the other guys on Siam Roads that we happily employ to bring us wonderful tours. Back when Michael (SurferCrest) was the owner of the Sawatdee chat forum group - you were ALWAYS there to help and support the success of that forum - which I believe that you eventually took over from Michael. You were ALWAYS available for free to help with the network and IT issues for Gaybutton's forum. You have helped with technical issues over the years for ALL 3 Thailand forums - Sawatdee, Gaybutton, and this one, GayGuides - this is truly appreciated Moses. It just PISSES me off that so many of our forum members just constantly dump shit on you when you have a kind heart and thanks to you we all have a forum that we can use to find wonderful sexual encounters and have great vacations. I just needed to get this off of my chest. Enough is ENOUGH!!!!!! I know that many people do not agree with the political side of things - but do we really need to stay so political in these forums???? This forum, gayguides.com has become so political --> especially after the fall of the former "Company of Men" forum when many of those forum members migrated over to this forum = gayguides.com Can't we all agree to get back to why this forum was created in the first place? To have fun, to plan our vacations, to share our adventures with each other, to create lasting friendships? Or is it more important for us to tear each other apart ?? If so, what will be left of this forum????

When it comes to boys, Vietnam is not Thailand. But there are a couple of places worth checking out. First, speaking to Grindr/HeeSay hookups, I’ll say I had a mixed, mostly negative experience. One muscle boy from Grindr came to my hotel for a hookup and only informed me he was a money boy after he stripped down to his underwear. My instinct was to kick him out immediately for not telling me up front, but he was so hot I agreed he could stay. But then, he would barely kiss, he wouldn’t fuck, wouldn’t suck, and we jacked for 10 minutes or so. I realized I was bored and told him he could leave. He asked for $20. I said no way. Offered him $8. We settled on $12. I paid it mostly to have him leave without making a scene. Two other free hookups catfished me. Not the guys in the photos. Not even close. And then there was a cutie. A 19-year-old Vietnamese twink with blond-pink hair. He works at a small, motorcycle-repair-shop-in-the-front, trendy-cafe-in-the-back restaurant. He invited me over for lunch and a drink one afternoon. I popped over to see him and I loved his personality as much as his looks. He made me an excellent sandwich and two drinks. We agreed to meet that night. It was fun to see him again. I tried fucking him but my cock was too big for his tiny ass. He was a pro at sucking. He said he used to be bad at it, but a tourist told him he was terrible and taught him the ways. We both wanted to see each other again, but my itinerary was too tight. Next time. And then there are the massage boys. HANOI I’ve learned, in addition to reading this forum, you need to search for “men for men massages” on Google maps to find the boys that will add “service for tips” to the standard massage. That said, like in Thailand, there are tons of massage shops in Hanoi’s Old Quarter. And while my focus was on sightseeing and the incredible food in Vietnam, I wanted to make it to one massage place while I was there. As I was walking down the street, just around the corner from my hotel, this gorgeous guy sitting in front of a massage shop said hi and asked if I wanted a massage. It wasn’t a “men for men” shop, but I thought I would roll the dice and see what happened. We walked upstairs and the place had around 20 tables in one big room with drapes separating them. The place was empty except for another male therapist with his shirt off. He was cute. I asked if we could do a 4-handed massage. They said yes. I got a little hard in the hopes of what could happen. For some reason, they gave me a discount off of the listed price. It would be $30 for 60 minutes for four hands. We walked to the table and they told me to get naked and to put on these baggy boxer-style shorts. I thought that was a bad sign. I wanted to see how they would respond if I stayed naked on the table but with a towel over my ass. They said the towel was fine. And although I hoped the easier access might lead to something, nothing sexy happened. It was a good 4 handed massage. We talked in broken English through part of it. Nice guys. I gave them each a good tip. But it reinforced that you have to go to designated spots in order to find the boys willing to do the extras. DANI SPA One such spot is Dani Spa. After looking online and reading some great reviews, I reached out to them on WhatsApp. They sent me photos of the boys they had on tap. All very attractive. I decided to do a 4-handed massage again. This time fulfilling my fantasy. Haha. And set up a time. I walked to Dani Spa from my hotel. A quick 15 minutes. It’s on a residential side street with no signage outside. They sent me very specific directions on how to get there via WhatsApp. I walked through the gate and up the stairs. They’ve essentially converted a nice house into a massage parlor. I greeted the boys and chose a 75-minute 4-handed massage. We walked upstairs and I undressed, one guy took off his shirt, and we began. The massage was good-to-great. But I’d recommend the 60-minute. They didn’t use a lot of techniques I’ve experienced with other therapists. Just lots of oil and body rubbing. When it came to the fun part, they put a towel over my eyes. One jacking me off. The other giving me a head massage and rubbing my nipples. After enjoying the edging for a while, I pulled the towel off my eyes and asked if I could touch their dicks. They said yes. The shirtless guy giving me a head massage was already hard. The other was not. But he was a minute after I started playing with him. They both still had their clothes on and didn’t want the other guy to see their dick, so my hand was down both of their shorts. And so with diffused afternoon sun pouring through large windows into the spacious room, and two boys playing with my cock and balls and body, me with two hard dicks in my hands, I squirted cum passed my nipples and my generously-oiled self relaxed even further as their hands finished caressing me. HO CHI MINH CITY (SAIGON) NADAM SPA When I landed in Saigon (which is what most locals like to call their city), I did a little research, talked to a few Grindr meets, and found NaDam Spa was the best sauna/massage place, by far. It was a bit further than some other options, but given the reviews, I decided it was worth the extra drive time. NaDam is located in a residential street, just off a major highway/bridge. When you arrive, you walk through a scooter “parking lot” garage to the front door. There was no fee to enter (you pay for everything upon leaving). You are quickly given a locker key and towel and escorted up some stairs to disrobe. (Side note - I brought my own sandals and am so glad I did. The ones they had were tiny and tight and not comfortable for me). I’ve been to 50 or so gay saunas in the world and none of them are even close to being in the same category, as being as jaw-droppingly gorgeous, as NaDam. There are beautiful blue-lit pools with plants surrounding them, fountains pouring in from all sides. A Himalayan pink salt room made with illuminated pink salt bricks with a window to one side featuring pottery and plants through the pane. The dry sauna has pineapple slices hanging over the hot rocks, giving it a delicious, sweet air. The steam room similarly has a mixture of aromatic plants and herbs over the steamer which are frequently attended to by guests and staff. The pools are made with luxurious stone. The pathways are made with Japanese stepping stones surrounded with pebbles. Most of the time I felt like I was in a 5-star spa in Beverly Hills. Sometimes I felt like I was in a museum. Nothing like I’ve experienced in a gay sauna before. NaDam is split into two parts. The cruising sauna on one side and massage boys on the other. It’s a brilliant business plan. You walk around the cruising area and get horny to the point of exploding, then go to the massage boys for some smoking hot fun. First, my report on the cruising side. I was there on a Friday night. I arrived around 5:30 p.m. In addition to the pools and showers and dry sauna and steam room on the main level, there is a cruising area on the 2nd floor with “dark room alleys” and Japanese styled fuck rooms with doors that close and lock. There were about 20 guys moving about. No action. All were locals except for one other tourist from Europe. The locals all looked very similar. 20-40 years old, most of them. Smooth. Twinkish builds. No one was playing. Just walking around and around and around and around in circles. Not my favorite. I like action. Then I came across a guy in the pink salt room with a bit stockier build. He was aggressive. Reached under my towel. I was cool with it. He sucked me for a while. Several guys peeked in to look. I decided to do one last round of cruising before going to the massage side. No action anywhere. I was ready for a massage. There are massage boys placed throughout NaDam…in the changing room…in the cruising area…outside the massage section, all soliciting. In addition, the massage reception has a book of boys that are in the building for you to look at. I made my selection, a flirty and fun cutie naked Huynh. The listed price for a 60 minute massage is $18. After a few minutes, Huynh took me upstairs. The massage rooms are stunning. So so nice. He invited me to lay down and started the massage. It was great. His technique was different than any I’ve experienced. Really fun, physical, and effective. When it was time to turn over, I was going to ask him to get naked, but he already was! He asked if I wanted to “turn up the temperature” (get sexual) and I said yes. No price was agreed to…you decide that afterwards. NaDam doesn’t allow massage boys to fuck on premises. No one is allowed. Everything else is on the table. You can fuck if you invite them back to your hotel. Anyway, we kissed and jacked and kissed and came on each other’s abdomens. It was really nice. Then he continued with the massage for another 12 minutes and it was finished. He presented me with a little pad and paper and asked how much I would tip. I wrote the amount down (I was generous). I would be charged for the massage and tip upon exiting. I went back to cruising. There were more guys now. Maybe 35. Again, mostly circling, circling, looking, looking, little-to-no action. There was a little action on the second floor. In some rooms guys were sucking each other with people crushing each other in the hallway to peek in. In others, the doors were locked…so I have no idea what they could have been doing. But the action represented maybe only 15% of the cruising customers. I tried to approach a few guys in towels…but nothing came of it. I didn’t feel too bad because they weren’t doing anything with anyone else either. After 45 minutes of this, I went back to the massage boys. This time the hot massage boys convinced me to get a full body scrub. The “body scrub expert” was older, in his 30s. My impression was he’d been a massage boy years before. Now he ran reception and did body scrubs. It was a 40 minute service for $12. We both walked upstairs to a room that was like a big tub. Various faucets and shower nozzles on the wall with a rubber-wrapped table in the middle and a drain in the center of the floor. We both got naked. He exfoliated my back with a salt, oatmeal and avocado oil scrub and then and bathed it with a rich body wash, followed by a strong, warm spray off. He then scrubbed and bathed and sprayed my front. Then scrubbed and bathed and sprayed my dick and balls. It wasn’t too sexual for me…mostly because I wasn’t terribly attracted to the guy. He started to jack me off but I told him I was good. So he finished the service and I wrote down my tip amount and we were finished. I went back to cruising. This time there were 55 guys or so. Same thing. Lost of cruising. Lots of looking. Very little action. I decided to go back to get my final massage. This time, when we got to the room, the boy asked 3 times in the first three minutes if I wanted to play. I thought, “well, if he’s asking…”, and said yes. We went straight to the non-penetrative sex. He was a fantastic kisser, even with his coffee breath. Fantastic. Body builder physique. Smooth all over. We sucked and played and talked and jizzed over each other’s dicks. My request. When it was over, we still had another 15-20 minutes left. I thought he’d want to finish the massage like the first guy. But for him, he was done. I asked him if he could massage me for a few minutes. The effort was half-hearted. So after a few minutes we wrapped things up. He asked what I would tip. I told him. He pushed for more and we settled on an amount. I did one last round in the cruising section. Same same. Except the crowd was thinning. Lots of guys were getting dressed and I was ready to do the same. I walked to my locker, dropped my towel and was putting on my shorts when….someone walked through a doorway to the right of the lockers that was gated and locked for most of the night. My curiosity spiked. I dropped my shorts and put on my towel. I went to walk through to see what it was all about and an attendant stopped me and said “small towel only”. My curiosity double spiked. I went back to my locker and put away my large towel and grabbed the tiny towel. I walked through the gate and up to stairs to see…my first ONSEN! Well, they called it an onsen. It was a huge rectangular pool that could have fit 40 guys with three shower heads across the center blasting water below. The room was dark. The water was backlit in light blue. There were only 6 or so guys in the water, totally nude. “Finally,” I thought, “something might happen.” Well, it did for two of the guys. They were in the corner, kissing, caressing, very affectionately. I think they must have come together. Maybe boyfriends. Then…they started fucking. In the water. It was so hot. The first stockier guy that sucked me hours ago came in the water. I let him suck me under the water as everyone watched the two guys fuck in the corner. They wanted a third hottie to join them, they kept gesturing for him to join…but he only wanted to watch. Anyway, it was an unexpected highlight to the end of the evening. I went to the lockers, got dressed and walked to the front reception. Altogether, my night cost $115. I felt it was a tad pricey…BUT, when you consider I had a great massage, non-penetrative sex with two hot massage boys, a full body scrub and wash, all with tips, plus I got to experience that gorgeous gay sauna, I was happy to pay that amount. I would have paid $115 for a 90-minute non-sexual massage back in the states. I just wish there was more action on the cruising side. That said, I would absolutely recommend putting NaDam on your itinerary if you are ever in Vietnam. I will be going back. There was another sauna I wanted to check out - 69Sauna. I had heard good things about it as well, but I was spent. Sexually and financially. Haha. Not to mention the crowd was probably also thinned out that late at night. So I called it a night and flew home the next day. I hope you check out Dani Spa and NaDam Spa when you’re in Vietnam! Happy travels!!

Some SHORT-TIME price updates for Pattaya (based on boys' input) There are basically three levels of price for short time 1. Tourist level: 1500B, boys usually ask for 2000B but ready to be bargained down to 1500. Some even maintain two tiers: 1500 for no anal & 2000 with anal. If boys accompany you to another bar for drinking and/or watching shows but no sex involved, they usually expect anything between 500 and 1000 (plus the bar fine). 2. Local expat level: 700B to 1000B 3. Local Thai level: 500B (usually made via apps like Blued and Hornet) When J., my boy, heard about that 500B deal, he laughed out loud and said "It's ridiculous!" He was probably spoilt by the 3000B I normally give him, but I told him to put himself in other boys' shoes. If you are alone in a foreign country, far away from home, and you have no steady income, no boyfriend/regular customers to turn to when in need, you probably would do anything just to survive. There is a Thai boy named Th., who just moved to Pattaya last month from Bangkok. He's currently working in JC's M-bar, where most of the boys are freelancers. 18 years old, gay but straight-acting, quite good-looking (tall, silk smooth skin with fine facial features, slim but not too fit). I asked if he had many offs since he moved here, and he said no, mostly drinks. Why? You are pretty! Because when customers approached him, he asked for 3000B (because he got paid like that in Bangkok) and they all bargained down that price by an absurd amount (some even started from hundreds up!). I told him, with that level of expectation, he should move to a more touristy area, like Boyztown. Actually, he would have the best chance at Boyz Boyz Boyz, but too bad that the bar's age limit was upped to 21 about a year ago. Speaking of Boyz Boyz Boyz, most of their working boys are straight and usually expect at least 3000 from lady customers, who in fact tend to give more. If they are forced to deal with a gay customer, they may ask for 5000 upward either to make it worth their while or simply so that the customer would give up. I also notice a more noticeable trend of boys picking and choosing customers. K., a very attractive Laos boy, who just started working in Jomtien a few weeks ago (he was a Mor lam dancer back in Laos), told me "I know customers choose boys, but we choose customers too." In his first day at work, probably because of his good look, big "tool", and new-face freshness, a customer offered to take him for the whole weekend for a generous tip, only to receive a firm NO. The bar staff, when he told that story to me, added "Let's wait until the low season and he'll see."

Merry Christmas everyone!

@Min thank you so much for sharing about your life. Am glad that you are helping J. I have been helping my regular guy for a number of years now. We don't regard each other as boyfriends but we are close. He treats me as his godfather "cha nuôi" while I treat him as my godson "con nuôi". I got to know him at X-Boys bar in Soi Twilight. After getting to know each other better for 2 years, con nuôi said he wanted to return to Vietnam permanently but he asked me for financial help. I said yes and it started with me sending him 12500 baht (S$500) every month. He managed to settle down into a job and could provide for his parents. We had agreed to cut down the monthly contribution gradually. It came down to 7500 baht per month (S$300) and then Covid hit. I helped him and his family ride out Covid with some additional contributions. After Covid, things didn't improve in Vietnam and con nuôi had no choice but to return to Bangkok to find work. He found a day job doing packing and deliveries. Probably encouraged by his friends, he went back to the life of gogoboy. He worked two jobs. He was at Dreamboys last year before the bar expelled all Vietnamese guys. This year, he found a place at Freshboys. He works there from 8.30pm to 1am (if he doesn't get any off), sleeps at 2am and wakes up at 7am for his day job which lasts till 6 plus. On his off days, he gyms at outdoor gym at Lumpini Park. He gets 2 or 3 offs a week - typically Chinese customers who want him to fuck them. He knows how to speak a bit of Mandarin hence his popularity among customers from mainland China. Being already 28 years old, con nuôi knows he cannot continue with his current situation forever. He is saving up to go back to Vietnam then enrol in a Korean language school full-time so that he can go to South Korea to work in shipbuilding as a permanent occupation. I told him I will continue helping him financially until he reaches South Korea.

A week ago, a customer offed both J. and his friend from his bar in JC to continue partying in Boyztown. About 10 minutes after he arrived, J. sent me a message "I'm going back. I don't like it here". My first thought was: the customer forced J. to do something he didn't want? Should I be alarmed? I sent him a message, asking what happened but got no response. 30 minutes later, when he's finally back to JC, it turned out the customer only took the two boys out to watch that erotic show in X-boys, whose sexually explicit content was offensive to J.. It looks like one year working in JC hasn't acclimatized him to this kind of stuff yet. That little incident probably gives you some clues. J. is hopeless traditional when it comes to sex. And by "traditional", I mean "farmer housewife traditional". Sex should only be carried out properly in the bedroom at night, with all the curtains down and lights mostly out (I once tried it in the bathtub, he seemed to enjoy it but was reluctant to do it again). Something like rimming would be unthinkable. For some reasons, he also came up with a "no more than one f*cking per day" rule. Actually, he would not allow me to say "f*ck" out loud. "It's not appropriate in Laos culture. You should say "together in the room." So when we are "together in the room", much as I'm turned on by his body (perfect to my liking: symmetrical, well-developed chest with lean muscles, the kind of muscles you got through good genes and physical hard work, not pumping yourself up in the gym, very lean waist, cute buns and long lean legs), the sex was getting old pretty soon. So I thought, it's totally up to me to spice up our sex life. It's a good thing that J. never fakes orgasm. He only moans when he indeed feels good. So I used his moaning as guidance when exploring his body and finding his G. spots. As someone who only tops and whose basic moves used to limiting to "fast-forward" and then "stall", I ventured to try out more positions, carefully calculating the angle and tempo changes in each case to achieve the maximum results (i.e., the loudest moaning). I even learned how to do cum-control in order to last longer (those daily cardios in the gym helps too. Actually each day with J. is always like working out twice if you know what I mean😉 ). My efforts paid off. Since I'm someone who feeds off greatly on his partner's pleasure, the more J. enjoys the sex, the more turned on I am. In the past, if I sensed that the boy was in pain or just wanted to get it over with, I often lost interest quickly and couldn't even get hard again. That's why I always preferred a boy who was also into me. I ended up having some of the best sex in my life with J., although to an outsider, it may look like my partner was just lying there and moaning. To see that a little farmer housewife sometimes sounding like a cat in heat gives me a sense of achievement too. PS. Once, my male ego forced me to ask J. "Do I give you better sex than your ex-boyfriend did?" He looked the other way, blushing a little but was vague with his answer "I don't know." Is that a yes or he was sparing my feelings? A few days ago, J. got angry with me for something (probably) quite trivial. Being passive-aggressive, he didn't want to talk it out. So he undressed and got into bed. When I joined him, he allowed me to do whatever I want but played dead. Sensing his resistance, I told myself "Challenge accepted!" So I really took my time, trying to be as gentle as I can, and started by paying visits to those G. spots with my tongue. As people say, the body doesn't lie. J. used his right hand to push down the little J. who was claiming loudly it should have its own life (and fun) too. He even gritted his teeth, determining not to let out a single sound. But he could hardly control it as the sound leak became more and more noticeable. Eventually, when I started upping my tempo, it's like he finally gave up and the moaning business was back to usual. So I thought "Mission accomplished!" I was wrong. After we finished, J. got up immediately (no usual post-coitus cuddling), got dressed and went home. He didn't even stop to collect his fee, which I laid out on the table next to the door. He was THAT angry. Although I wasn't sure why he got angry, being a good boyfriend, I sent my apologies for whatever I did wrong through message (of course I didn't say "whatever" in there). I was forgiven the next day though. PS. Speaking of fake orgasm, there is this Laos boy whom I offed just once about 2 years ago. We had barely even begun it when he started moaning loudly and saying all those "come on baby" "oh yeah" "f*ck" "feel so good" whatever. He couldn't hold his conversation in simple English (we used google translation most of the time) but obviously he has a very good command when it comes to those phrases. It was so distracting I had to tell him to tone it down but he begged to differ "That's my way. I was always like that with my ex boyfriend back in Laos." A few minutes into it, my already hard cock got soft and could not recover, so I just let him go with the promised fee. I nicknamed him "the porn star" and the sobriquet sticks. Everyone in the bar knows about his tricks and calls him "porn star" as well. Now come to think of it, he would make a perfect cast for @Olddaddy if his self-made porn idea ever materializes. I run into the Porn Star, who is now freelancing, once in a while and got his feedback on how his acts would work on other customers. It turned out it works for some and for those who hate it, he has learned to cool it. He promised if I off him again, he will now lie completely still in my bed, without making a sound. Do I look like I'm into necrophilia to you?

For the past 10 days, almost every night at Foodland, there's been two gentlemen playing chess at table 8 (in middle of restaurant) from 7plus to 8.30pm while having dinner. Sometimes, other gentlemen would join in and they would play some games against these two gentlemen. The two gentlemen are Yours Truly here and my regular guy. I had brought the chess set from Singapore because I have recently been reacquainted with the game due to the interest in chess in Singapore. Singapore is currently hosting the World Chess Championship between Gukesh (India) and Ding Liren (China) over two weeks. I had read in forum about a Myanmar waiter at new Dragon and Koi bar holding a degree in physics so I thought I might bring a chess set on my trip and play against this waiter. Unfortunately, I found out after meeting him that he doesn't know how to play chess. Fortunately, my regular guy spotted my chess set in my Airbnb condo when he came over for long-time session. "After sex we play chess?" he asked. I said sure and we played 3 games while on the bed (after showering of course) before dozing off. Subsequently, we met at Foodland every evening at 7.30pm for dinner and chess. The staff at Foodland were surprised at first when they saw us doing this every evening but they got used to us and even remembered my food order which was wanton soup with pork and chicken cashew nuts without rice for me. My regular guy would try a different dish but with the same drink order of watermelon juice. At 8.30pm, he would leave to report for work at Freshboys. I then kept the chess set into my bag and wandered off into night adventures. Eventually, I discovered some other Vietnamese guys who can play chess as well. I believe they were introduced to the game back in school in Vietnam. There's a guy in Good Boys who's pretty good. Then, there are two other guys in Freshboys who can play. None of them is as good as my regular guy. He has beaten me several times. After 7 years of knowing him, we only discover our shared interest now. Better late than never!

Brief update on T. and the Dutch customer, the story that started this thread (as usual, my threads never have a clear focus and I just put down whatever takes my fancy at the moment). It looks like they are going steady. The customer stops by every day without fail, only sits with T., sometimes for a very long time (the other day, he arrived at 7pm and was still there at 11pm, when I left). There is only one off so far, but the customer will stay here for two more weeks, so WE AT THE BAR all hope for something more substantial out of it. J. stopped T. every time we ran into him to get an update. Yes, we care that much, especially when it comes to a chance for a long-term relationship. Speaking of long-term relationships, last night I sat with V., currently the oldest boy in the bar (34). He currently dates a farang boyfriend, an American expat, who gives him a generous monthly allowance of 30K Baht and still allows him to work in the bar. "I can sit and go drinking with customers, but no sex. That's his condition. He said if he ever found out that I cheated, he will end our association immediately." V. already bought a house in his hometown, a few hours away by bus from Pattaya. 16K monthly down payment would come from the aforesaid allowance. He's also been trying to save, earmarked for opening a coffee house in his hometown. "That is one reason my boyfriend allows me to continue to work here. He wants me to do the saving myself." V. told me. "When I reach my target of 200K, I will stop working in the bar and move back home." "But what about your boyfriend? He lives here in Pattaya, right?" "Oh, he will move and live with me in my house. That's our plan for a future together." According to V., the said boyfriend actually sat in the bar and observed him at work for some time before finally approaching him. Their relationship is still fresh and they do it step by step, At the moment, V.'s been staying with him 3 days a week, aiming for living with each other full-time down the line. "It seems you guys got it all figured out. Your boyfriend is so thoughtful. You have a good thing going for you. I think you should avoid doing anything that may jeopardize the relationship. Work harder, take good care of him, keep him staying in love with you. Don't risk it just for some quick buck." "I know. He said he loves me and wants to be with me for a long time. If he keeps his part of promise, I won't cheat. " "Do you love him?" I asked. "Actually, at the moment, I only like him." V. was honest with his answer. "But my feeling for him is growing. I want to be with him every day." When asked about his previous relationships, V. said he was in love with a German guy a while ago. "When he decided to leave Thailand and move back home, I had cried for days because I know I would never see him again. I still miss him sometimes." "Suppose the German guy comes back to Pattaya right at this moment, what would you do if you have to choose?" It didn't take long for him to come up with an answer. "I would sit with him and talk but would not do anything that may break my boyfriend's heart. I know how hurtful it is to have your heart broken. My boyfriend has been good to me. I would not do anything to hurt him." (I wish all those younger boys working in the soi would share the same view). It's already midnight. I gave V. his tip and told him I want to sit with him again some time in the future to get updates on his relationship. "J. told me you are a lovely person. Now I think so too." V. said "You are a lovely person too." I said So we said goodbyes, feeling happier because both of us are lovely hehehe. PS. I really like the arrangements made between V. and his boyfriend. Maybe it's time I make a similar deal, officially, with J., (whose own dream is opening a clothes store back in his hometown).

Thursday - During breakfast at Le Meridien, I spotted a hunky guy with farang customer just one table away. I faintly remember hunk working in bars in the past but I didn't see him this year. I wanted to be polite and say hi to hunk but customer looked intimidating so I better not approach. In fact, last week, when I was staying at Airbnb condo in Soi 3 and I had to go out for breakfast, I bumped into a waiter from Dragon and Koi with an Asian customer (looks Korean). They were walking to Park Silom Foodland for breakfast. I called name of waiter and he turned around to say hi but his customer was staring daggers at me! For the record, if anyone bumps into me with my current guy and it's obvious they know the guy well, I will never react with hostility. I will be warm and polite and introduce myself and say, "Nice to meet you. I know you are a good person and you have great taste!" After breakfast, I swam at pool then off to Centralworld for another movie. On way back, I had lunch at Thai boat noodles shop at soi 3 and bumped into forum member and his guy. It was his guy's off day and they were running errands around the city. Back at hotel for another hour at pool and small light bites at executive lounge on top floor then off to Sauna Mania! It was Thursday and today's theme was Towel Night a.k.a Nude Night. I wanted to experience it to see how different it was from other nights. Walking along Soi Convent towards Sauna Mania, I bumped into favourite Vietnamese massage guy. He was on dinner break with two of his co-workers from Natural Massage on Soi 6. By the way, the name on the menu and window of his massage shop has been changed to G-Zone since 2 weeks ago. But the main signage on the outside of the building is still Natural Massage. And on Google Maps, it's still Natural Massage! Lovely weather in evening and took this photo of the soi leading to Sauna Mania during sunset.

In order to answer your question more thoroughly, here is a bit of history: before he came to Thailand, J. had 2 ex-boyfriends. One is Thai, who he met totally online, dated a few months, even prepared to travel to Thailand to meet then somehow found out that Thai had a local boyfriend. Then he got a Laos boyfriend, who lived in a different province and who used to pick him up on his car (having your own car in Laos rural areas is a big deal so I guess this ex-boyfriend was pretty well-off by the local living standard). J.'s first and only sexual experiences in Laos, according to him, were with this ex-boyfriend, but "we don't have sex that much because he lives far away." It looks like this boyfriend doted on him and also provided him financial support (J. worked in a shoe factory at the time, which paid minimum wages). Then 7 months later, the same old story: he found out the boyfriend had another boy in yet another province, so cut him out of his life completely. The boyfriend later wanted to get back together, but J. said "No, he hurt me badly with his cheating, I could never forgive". Then he moved to Thailand and met me. Again, this is what he said: I'm the second person he ever had sex with. He made it clear that he wants a long-term relationship but also that he expects financial support from his partner because he himself is responsible for a big family back home. "My friends have had chances to travel and have fun but all I know since high-school graduation is work and work." When he introduced me to his mother, he even asked "Can I say you are my boyfriend?" There was a tinge in my heart that he even has to ask for permission. But as he explained, this time the relationship is different. There is a big difference between us in terms of social and financial status, and I'm also his customer from whom he received money in exchange for sexual favors. It's funny that when I travel to his village to meet his family for the first time, the whole village stopped by just to see what J's foreign boyfriend looks like (Who spread the news, I have no idea, but the gossip mills there obviously just spin as fast as in JC) Back to your other question, I used to think that he must have other, however limited, sexual encounters with other customers because after all, he needs money and he works in JC. But to this day, I haven't had a single concrete evidence of that. The whole bar, where he works, knew about us and appeared to cheer for us. After just a few weeks, every time someone saw me, the first thing they said is "J. is blah blah". I once asked the bartender "Why everybody mentioned J. the instant they see me. I'm just one of his customers." And you know what he said. "Because from beginning, you guys never looked like customer and boy. Whenever I see you two together, I see a couple." I treat many boys in that bar nicely including those I never off, buying them drinks on those "lean" times when they couldn't make one single drink the whole night. Some keep an eye on J. for my sake, give me updates about him when I'm not around, but not a single one ever said he saw J. went to a hotel with a customer. What @gayinpattayawho I believe lives full-time in Jomtien and knows a lot about what's going on in the complex, just said in his comment above, further cemented the belief that he probably never went with another customer. I myself never demand that he can only go with me though, but I did say if he has sex with other customers, always play it safe to protect both of us. I know J.'s type (Asian, slim, smooth and fair complexion). There was one time when suspicion raised its ugly head, I decided to test J. (a decision I later regretted) by asking H., a Taiwanese friend, who I know would be J's type, to approach him, posing as a customer. This is a drama in its own right that I may recount another time, but after found out that H. was my friend, J. did tell H. "Min was the only person I have sex with since I arrived in Pattaya" (J. himself never told me this). Thanks for the info though. That helps I'm still trying to learn more about J. and his values in life, and on many occasions, have struggled to understand why he did what he did.

Our holiday is over and we return to our homes tomorrow. We've been discussing our impressions of the JC, the changes, the good and less good, and comparing what we found this time with the nine or ten previous stays. Firstly, the bar scene. Our knowledge is very limited because we usually have a walk through the soi quite early....20.00 to 21.00. We are therefore merely visitors. There have been occasions when there has been a vibrant atmosphere with many cheerful (and attractive) guys greeting us and inviting us to come in for a drink. And on others, with few punters and many guys, the atmosphere has been less pleasing. Guys transfixed to their phones, sometimes rather forlornly due to the small number of punters. They deserve better; I hope that, on our next visit in March, the good nights will outnumber the bad ones. But there was one impression at which we arrived independently; there were noticeably more visible falang/Thai partnerships, both around the Complex and in the beach area. I don't refer to self-evident LTRs like ours, but older falang visitors accompanied by younger guys. I can't recall seeing so many before and have no explanation why this is the case. Another positive is the evening scene on the beachfront. Families and holiday makers enjoying the cool of the evening with some good restaurants available and many food stalls for those wanting a cheaper option, including one offering fried insects, which only one of us bought. We enjoy watching the dance/ exercise groups even if their members are overwhelmingly female! Loy Kratong was , once again, a delight. It was the second time we'd enjoyed it at Jomtien. Much more relaxed and family-orientated than Songkran. Another word of praise for the Agate Hotel. I suspect that it had more gay guests this time which was pleasing. Such friendly staff; so close to the action and yet so quiet. Needless to say, we are looking forward to our return.

Here's a music video I edited by combining the AI videos I made! Enjoy and have a good weekend ahead! XiaoYing_Video_1734703475600.mp4

Hahahaha This is NORMAL modus operandi for many of these guys. No shame. No guilt. No self control, No financial responsibility, etc. It is just amazing. After living here as a new retiree here for more than 2 years - I now see how to survive here psychologically and mentally --> in that you just need to become a grumpy non-heart cold jaded old bastard expat retiree. So sad, as I had not envisioned to have this kind of existence in the last years of my life.

Then you won't find a bigger dick than Trump!

we know you are gentleman and a scholar but in my opinion you did right thing by NOT approaching that hunky guy ( yes , he left the scene and now owns a restaurant but it looks it's still engaging his old customers from time to time ) sitting with other person. One never knows how either guy or his companion may react so unless guy in question makes some kind of eye contact or motion it's better pretend you are complete stranger. Theoretically that farang he was sitting with could be somebody who doesn't know guy's past. You should leave waiter and Korean alone too. I'm sensitive to the issue as once I spotted one of my guys walking Silom on 'wrong ' side with other Asian and it was clear by his face expression I should pretend of not knowing him. What it turned out , that' customer' was his visiting Cambodian relative content to know that my guy has some warehouse job, which was and still is true but not whole truth. Also one of Tawan boys who at the time landed nice sponsor and left the scene entirely , when we met by chance on BTS it was quite clear, even if he was travelling alone , that he doesn't know me anymore .He knows me again now, lol Ever since when I see face familiar from the scene, either boy or forum member I'm waiting for a sign they noticed me at the least. It would be nightmarish if I'm sitting in some restaurant with my friend who happens to be in Bangkok at the same time and some forum friend comes , pats me on the back and asks " how was boy you took last night from Hot Male?"

After the party ended at about 9.45pm, forum members and I went to Jupiter. I still had bottle of Johnie Walker Red label from Wednesday's visit. As we walked down soi 4 towards Jupiter, I said hi to Banana Bar promoters, massage guy at Adam's Massage and a long-tine waiter friend at Circus. Mamasan at Jupiter placed us in a L-shaped seat where we had good view of runway on the stage. Cute twinky half Thai-half Malaysian 008 waiter prepared our drinks for us. We arrived in time to watch the first runway walk by the Jupiter guys - shirtless in jeans/trousers. I saw my regular guy, N, from Cambodia and signalled to him to join us. "Tonight you go back with me?" Ok! He came over fully dressed and I got 008 to get him a drink. "My friends want to watch show. After show, we eat at Foodland. Then go condo," I told N. Forum member who went to Moonlight with me on Friday night had never been to Jupiter. I couldn't wait to hear his comparisons between the two bars. Jupiter was a full house as it was a Saturday night. Most of the show was the same as that on Wednesday night but the energy in the performances was much more on Saturday. Maybe it was the full house crowd. There were additional performances in the show as well, including a silly but fun marshmallow segment where members of the audience, without using their hands, were invited to pick up and eat marshmallows placed on a model's body on a table. One lucky girl got to eat marshmallow put on model's underwear. Lucky bitch! It was good fun and audience loved it. Forum member said Jupiter's show was better than Moonlight's show. At midnight, the show ended and Poppy and PJ came on stage to sing. I got the mamasans, waiters and ladyboy diva show performers who happened to sit nearby to finish my bottle of whisky. I knew I won't be coming back to Jupiter during the rest of current trip. We then went to Foodland and met other forum members for supper. After supper, I went back to my Airbnb condo with N while two forum members went to Goodboys to get their guys. Overall, it was a fantastic, enjoyable and unforgettable Saturday!

I too find it a bit annoying, but I try to look at it like this: This is how these guys earn their living. These guys are older, some are married and have children. Some rarely get offs but they are working “hard” to entertain you there in the bar. Unfortunately in recent years, they have had to become accustomed to Chinese tourists who never tip, never buy them a drink, and rarely off them. Or to tourists who are happy to see them walking around naked with a hard on, happy to grope them, and think that it’s free. Unfortunately, if they don’t ask for tips they probably won’t get any. i live in Bangkok and I go there a few times a year. I know that it’s going to be a little expensive. I take a small roll of hundred baht notes and I tip for services rendered. I’m also very comfortable saying no to requests for tips for no reason. I buy a few drinks and I spend a little money. In return I know that I’m going to be treated very well and receive very personalised attention.

Easy. First, his father is half Thai and one of greatest golfers to play the game. Second, hole-in-one is rare achievement, especially for youngster. Third, the Beer Bar doesn't require any relevance to Thailand or or anything else.

@faranglaw thanks for posting this, as I believe that this is the NUMBER 1 reason why I joined, participate, and stay active in "OUR FORUM" = gayguides.com. It warms my heart when our responsible membership take care of our guys. On the other hand, it saddens me when we occasionally learn/read/discover that some of our members exploit our guys in a monetary and/or psychological way that is degrading to their wellbeing. In the end, we are all human - and we should be all treated with dignity.

1. It is supposed to cover all areas. I think J.'s life in Pattaya is confined to his co-workers, especially those from Laos and work in the same bar as he, and bar customers. I once asked him if he could ever develop feelings for one of his fellow MBs. He looked at me like I'm some kind of a pervert. "They all are my friends. I don't have that kind of feeling for a friend." I also asked him if we stay as customer and boy and one day he goes back to Laos and find a local boyfriend, would he continue to see me as a paying customer, and again, the answer is NO, he wouldn't. 2. I'm not sure what J. thinks about that (I may ask him later), but for me, I'll take it as it comes. If we last another year, I'll adjust financial terms for inflation and also, well, "seniority", like, I'll increase everything by 10% each year (3000 becomes 3300, 25K becomes 28K, and so forth). Maybe one day, if we last that long, I'll drop the "transaction-based" payments completely and simply take care of his financial needs. Once the boys in the bar made a joke about J. being so "international" in his relationships. His first boyfriend is Thai, second Laos, and now the third Vietnamese, so what nationality would be next on the list? And he was like, "No, no, I don't want no more boyfriends." I think it's not about the specific amount per se, but he thinks the deal is unnecessarily complicated (I'll talk to him just to be sure anyway). Also, the offered minimum of 25K is already generous, toward the high end of such deals. Most boys I know receives between 10K and 20K; one gets only 5K but no exclusiveness is required. V.'s case of 30K mentioned earlier is quite rare. K., another Laos boy who has the most drinks in the bar, sometimes with 20+ drinks in a single night, more than most boys make in a week, and also someone who is willing to go with any paying customers, told me he normally makes between 20 and 30K per month, so if a customer wants to make an exclusive deal with him, the offered amount must be at least 25K. So here we go I told J.: K. has to "endure" all kinds of customers whether he likes them or not. You only need to sleep with one customer, who you actually likes, and still make more money than him. What do you complain about? Hehe.

certainly it proves Pattaya as family-planning-friendly destination

EXCELLENT observation @reader This is SO true - this ho-so "double standard". I experienced this first hand when I dated a hi-so guy who was from a wealthy family in Bangkok - but he lived in Pattaya because he had an important job as an administrator in one of the more important hospitals here in Pattaya. He told me that he could not date me if I chose to live in Dongtan beach (meters just outside of the Jomtien Complex). I said, but why? He replied, do you realize what kind of people work in the complex? I said, yes - this is why I moved here. He replied, if you want to date me you need to move to North Pattaya, in the affluent Wongamat neighborhood. I replied, no way, depending on the awful traffic here I would need to spend 1 hour to get to Jomtien. He replied, everything you would want is in Wongamat. He said, I need to protect my family's hi-so status. We never saw each other again.

Yes, add me to that list. Pattaya and Jomtien as a paradise ... as a tourist ... heavily influenced my decision to retire here. But the reality of living here is not a paradise ... My original plan was to retire in Italy (as I also have an Italian passport). But some years back on the gay Roman beach I saw some situations that turned me off of that idea to retire in Italy. The elderly retired gay Italians on the gay beach are often despised by the non-elderly gays. On some occasions, I saw with my own eyes old retirees who had sand kicked on them when they tried to strike up a conversation with the other younger gay Italians. After I saw those incidents - I remembered that I NEVER saw this type of behavior in Thailand - especially at the gay Dongtan beach here in Jomtien. The elderly are very welcome. So, I guess our retirement locations have good and bad. For me, living here is too transactional - but I would rather have that problem than having sand kicked on me because I am old and the young gays despise us gay elders - because their hostility towards us is their own fear of getting old.

Thursday night at Sauna Mania was just wow! The clothes rack with underwear for sale at 150 baht each was not there at counter. Everyone was supposed to wear towel or go nude. About 30 guys from 5pm to 6.30pm. Most were in dark maze but I did see a farang fucking an Asian guy on a bed on the top floor. There were two other guys watching. In the dark maze, there were some tall local hunks! Lots of groping and molesting. Much easier to touch with only a towel that comes off easily. There were 2 or 3 shy guys in underwear though. I got involved in 3-way fun. One horny guy was sucking another guy for a good 15 minutes and I touched and played with the two guys. I was also grabbed, manhandled and molested by a bigger guy for 5 minutes. While I enjoyed his attention, I had to apologise as I had to leave for dinner appointment. My conclusion - Thursday No towel night is a must try experience!

Wednesday was lazing at hotel swimming pool and movie at Centralworld. Came back to Silom to meet my regular guy for dinner and we took a taxi to famous place Tawandang German Brewery in Chong Nonsi. It offers live Thai music and beer that is brewed in-house. Unfortunately, there were no seats for us. It was fully booked! Will make sure I do a booking in advance during next trip. We took a taxi back to Silom and I knew a place that has live music. 9th floor of Silom Edge. We took the lift with many guys who were there to go to Beef. "Beef gay bar. Like G O D." My guy is surprised by long lines. He says he knows about G O D but has never gone there. He has gone to DJ Station with customer though. We went to restaurant bar with outdoor seating named Throwback. We had steak and beer. 1400 baht. More expensive compared to our usual Foodland dinner but it was a nice experience and my guy got to see the outside of Beef for first time. Maybe a customer will bring him there? After dinner, he went to his bar Freshboys while I went to Moonlight where I had promised to off Laos twink. We were happy to see each other again. He's still as cute as ever. I asked mamasan whether Boss working today. He said he comes late at 11.30pm. I didn't want to wait that long so Laos twink and I went back to hotel room.

Lawson’s has opened Lawson 108 store on Silom, roughly opposite Soi 6. It’s similar to a 7-Eleven but differs in several ways. It’s much more oriented to prepared meals and snacks. It also has much expanded liquor and wine offerings along with beer and soft drinks. There a dozen seats available at eat-in bar.

I didn't want to exploit his generosity and seeing that the normal room is already better than most massage shops, I said no to the VIP room. "Up to you," he said, sounding disappointed. We went into normal room on 3rd floor and boy, was he horny! He groped me the moment he closed the door after me. We undressed each other quickly and had a noisy and frisky one hour session. Not that he had no massage skills. He was pretty good with his massage strokes but we were both so horny. It must be the morning horniness. We sucked, kissed and rimmed each other. The only thing we didn't do was fuck because I am a side, much to his disappointment. He wanted to fuck me and he also wanted me to fuck him. He was different from most massage guys because he was gay and, I reiterate the key point again, he was fucking horny! We climaxed together at the hour mark and then showered. I wished I had chosen one-and-half hour massage! I left the massage shop, bought some lunch and feel into blissful afternoon nap back in room.

Finally it was the highlight of the event- Tip and Touch. The models walked over to a corner of the room in 3 different groups - 7 or 8 at a time. They stood there in underwear and guests started forming lines in front of them. The lines for certain models were much longer than for others! The lights were dimmed and the guests could go up to the models to hug, molest and grope for a 100 baht tip. Forum member and I joined the queue for our favourite models. It was a surreal experience. It might seem like a lustful orgy but the whole affair was orderly and respectful. The models even had a transparent plastic bag with them. Every time a guest inserted a tip into their underwear, they would take it out and put into the plastic bag, ensuring that the next guest would have a clean and fresh slate to grope and tip. Very considerate! Kudos to organisers for such thoughtful planning! For obvious reasons, I have no photo to show of this Tip and Touch section of the event.

Had unforgettable Saturday. Started at 5pm with going Crowne Plaza Hotel for Crete Party. Waited for forum member then we went in together. Locals pay 4900 baht for event but foreigners pay 5500 baht. About 70 to 80 guests. Attired in all black as requested by organiser. 22 models, well known to locals. They appear in advertisements and shows in Thailand. Forum member and I don't know them but we can see their appeal. Some of the models were at entrance taking photos with guests. They were shirtless. I was enchanted by one model and asked him for a photo together and he obliged willingly. I felt like I was in heaven just standing next to him. The other models were also very handsome and hunky. Once we registered, we were allowed to choose our favourite models in a voting contest. "You can choose 5 models." No, I will only choose one and it was the hunk that I took photo with.

Dragon and Koi is showing signs of resilience with steadily increasing customer flow. Made my fourth visit last night and counted six hosts (who also double as dancers) on hand. They’re all attractive, friendly and eager to keep you company. All but one speaks English. The customer drinks are reasonably priced and boy drinks about half of what show bars charge. Although they can’t be offed, they seem open to meeting customers after shop closes at 2.

I have no problem paying more than the locals because I have a lot more money than them. To me, it's not the cost I worry about; it's whether I think I'm getting value for money. So I don't care what the locals pay - compared to the price the guys in Australia and Europe charge, I'm getting great value for money, whilst associating with nice, honest and friendly guys. And lifting their standard of living at the same time! 😂

Two WhatsApp messages in two days by two different boys that I saw in my October trip One guy I had seen several times in my first 2 weeks of my 4 week trip then he ghosted me and was too busy ,he even cancelled a few appointments to turn up , Excuses were "it's raining " etc or" I'm too tired after working restaurant all day" ' He wasn't a bar boy ,he is 38yo ex bar boy works in restaurant I took him to dance clubs , etc and even paid him for his time , then I thought I did something wrong ,he just started ignoring my messages So I didn't see him the entire last 2 weeks of my trip ,he just didn't answer my messages or response was a few days later with short replies "I'm busy" etc I even sent him a message saying I'm going back home in a few days if he wants to meet up ,his response was ,"I'm busy working long hours in restaurant but see you next year on your trip " 😲 Last night I get a ringing sound on my WhatsApp, Im thinking it's some scammer but I accept the call and go to video to see it's him !!! Hello he said ,you remember me? How are you ? I have no money 💲💲can you send me some I have no food "Really ? I said What happened to the long hours in the restaurant? I asked ❓ Oh I have fight with boss he says You didn't want to see me the last 2 weeks of my trip , you ghosted me , now you want to call me back in Australia asking for money !😳 Unbelievable ❗😯😳the audacity to ask for money after not wanting to know me the last 2 weeks of my trip !

I took a different route. I also had no money as a child,though, as it was the UK, support was available. I became a lawyer, and did well, and I then considered options. Mine is a children's home in Siem Reap, run by a dedicated Spanish lady, and Khmer staff. All the kids have been abandoned or sold, the majority sexually abused. I asked what I can do, and the result was that I sponsor some of the kids, each over a 10 year period. Glad to say first one, now 19, left the home, and is at University. These kids are the lucky ones.

Glad that you had a good trip. We all owe you thanks for your excellent and detailed reporting and for your entertaining posts!

In fact, there was another birthday. Besides my regular guy and birthday forum member, next Thursday was the birthday of the regular guy of forum member who's been bringing me to Saphan Kwai. That third birthday was celebrated in a much quieter atmosphere with just a slice of cake later at night in same Foodland venue at 1am Sunday. Rewind back to 8.30pm on Saturday night. "We must make sure you have a memorable birthday!" I said as I suggested we go to Dragon and Koi bar. Many new waiters who just joined two days ago. Instead of just 5 dancers during the hourly 15-minute dancing (9pm, 10pm, 11pm, 12am, 1am), there were 8 dancers now. And it wasn't just coyote freestyle dancing. The dance moves were choreographed. "Every day we come at 5pm to practise and rehearse our dance steps. Then bar opens at 7pm," one of waiters said to me. I announced loudly it was birthday forum member's birthday today and the staff spontaneously arranged for DJ to play Happy Birthday and all the waiters surrounded our semi-circular booth seat to dance and sing to birthday forum member. It was a wild crazy night with waiters grabbing birthday forum member to dance with them many times. The bottle of vodka plus cocktails helped the party mood. We stayed for 3 hours and ran up a drinks bill of 5700 baht which we split threeway equally. This excludes tips of course.

@jason1975 great story about your Chess pickup strategy. I love it. It is subtle, sweet, and intelligent. Jason, have you ever seen the 2015 Thai gay film = How to Win at Checkers {Every Time} ? I believe that the Thai people knew the film as "My Hero" instead of the long film name in English. I know that this film is partly about checkers, instead of chess - but I saw from your current ongoing trip report that you often go to see a movie during the afternoon - so I wanted to bring this gay film to your attention. It sheds some light on many Thai cultural traditions (both positive and negative). I truly enjoyed this film. You can watch film for free on Daily Motion at : Enjoy.

Vinapu, when claiming u r still shy, u r abusing the english dictionary.....