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Hey everyone, just for a public service announcement- a new massage store is opening. Conveniently located beside OnNut. Some boys look familiar, but some look new too. the decoration is in chinese style. It has 7 rooms over 4 storeys but no private washroom. The shop is considered: H style (hard). location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uip6udcetJbhnHYi6?g_st=com.google.maps.preview.copy X account: fafaspa_bkk9 points
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TRIP REPORT: BACK IN BANGKOK So I am back on Bangkok. After few weeks traveling around China and a few relaxing days in Da Nang (Vietnam) I'm in Thailand for 4 nights before I fly back home. On wednesday I had the honor to meet forum legend @vinapu for the first time. We would meet at the beginning of soi 4 in front of the taco restaurant. And with the description "KFC guy but without the goatee" it was very easy to recognize him. After a first drink and some smalltalk on the terrace of Banana in soi 4 we agreed to go to Jupiter for the show. We were early. And we enjoyed a good singer perform before the boyshow started. Show was entertaining again. When the show started the place was I would say half full, but during the show more customers came in. Multiple boys that are my type and could be possible candidates for an off. After Vinapu made his decision on which boy he wanted that night first, I also made my choice. Nice boy from Cambodia. He was fine in the bedroom, but he would not earn a top10 position of boys I ever had. I like it when the boy takes some initiative. This boy was a bit to shy in the bedroom. But as Vinapu said the day after to me: "still better than an empty bed". Wise words. Thursday afternoon I was chilling in my hotelroom. Browsing Grindr. Chatting with a horny 27yrs old muscle guy offering massage and fun. I couldn't resist and invited him to my room. It turned out a good choice. He was goodlooking and could speak very good English because he's from Malaysia. Massage skills also good. As a picture says more than 1000 words, I will put one of his profile pics below. Off course in discrete way so I have cut off his face... He really took time for a decent massage. And after the massage part it only got better. With finally him offering me his ass in a naughty, slutty way. I like it. In the evening meet up with Vinapu again. Went to "world famous UNESCO heritage" Foodland for a drink. The night before he found out I had never been to Moonlight before. According to him that was a shame. A sin. How could I, while I like muscular guys, never been to Moonlight. So it was time we changed that tonight and go there together. When I admitted it was actually also my first time in Foodland, I think the word "disgrace" was used by Vinapu to describe my behavior of not having visited some famous important places on any of my precious trips to Bangkok. Lol I really liked Moonlight. So many guys that are my type. One of my favorites is Nut. I think he looks cute, because of his curly hair. Pic below from Facebook livestream of Moonlight on the night I was there... I was expecting a bigger crowd in Moonlight. I think there was a total of about 15 or 20 customers. There was more staff present (waiters and boys) than customers. When long-time Moonlight star Babe came on stage, I was first saying to Vinapu I couldn't understand why he was the big star of the club. Because I thought he was not very special. That was before het took his short off. What a sexy hot body he has! So actually he also became one of my favorites. Lol Feels good not to be a Moonlight virgin anymore. We had a quick visit to Hotmale after Moonlight. It was just after midnight and we were the only customers there, but decided on ordering a drink anyway. That's when we found out there was a boy there we both offed before. Made us laugh. It was a good night again.6 points
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Patpong comings and goings
sydneyboy1 and 4 others reacted to vinapu for a topic
Moonlight last night - even at show time I had an impression that there are more staff - boys and mamasans than customers. Reason unknown as boys are very decent looking to say the least and show is quite nice, deprived of flashy lip syncyng ladyboys, unless that would be the reason. My target was already offed and as for the rest, guys who I could be interested in did not bother to look my way and, to be even handed those who smiled at me, I was not interested in meeting, at least not last night. Eight models in attendance - Nicky, Nut, Mark, Tum, Boss, Jack, Babe and best of them all perhaps, Tiger. Then off to Hotmale. Just past midnight no clients but about dozen guys also decent looking. Few clintes came to have a look but only briefly. Before 1am my order arrived so we left and bar closed soon after. On our way to hotel we spotted Jupiter guy dining in Parpong 2 and Hotmale guy dining in soi Convent. It means it pays to have a walk of area after bars closed as one a got lucky. In fact if I were empty handed, I'd took home that Hot Male guy since he is known quality me. Rainy yesterday and this morning. But it's differet to get soaked at + 30 than +13, not to mention + 3 so just saying, no complains here.5 points -
Earlier in this trip report I shortly already wrote about my time in China. About boys it was not very eventful. Besides a nice massageboy in Beijing. Partly because I couldn't find the right type of boys on the apps. But also because I had a different mindset in China. While I come Thailand mainly because of boys, China for for exploring and sightseeing. After China I went to Vietnam for a few days. Da Nang has a very pleasant atmosphere. Specially after two weeks in China it was good to be back in a more "normal" world with a bit more Western feel. The My Ahn beach area has a few nice streets with restaurants and bars. Where you still can eat for low prices as it was in Thailand many years ago before price went up in LoS. I had a wonderful guide that was recommended to me by @bkkmfj2648. He showed me around on two day trips and also one evening. There are a few gay massage places in Da Nang. But my guide told me gay massage just means you are being massaged by a guy, but generally there is no hanky panky going on in the shops there. Pure massage only. This was being confirmed by a Google review I read about one of the local massage places. But I managed to find a cute guy on Grindr who came to my hotel to give massage plus fun after. So yeah I really liked Da Nang but it is Bangkok that is now making up for the lack of boy action during my China trip. Lol5 points
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Well done USA electors!
khaolakguy and 4 others reacted to reader for a topic
Perhaps Moses is a bit jealous. His president can’t play the piano with any of his extremities and is definitely not cute.5 points -
I suppose both, but among the veterans it’s a shrinking group who’ve managed to maintain their cheerful attitudes with consistently good service. Lately I find myself seeking out newcomers who, one of whom I as luckily to find this week who immediately got himself added to repeat list. The one thing the repeaters have in common is that they don’t haggle.4 points
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Boy Agencies - update
aussie_ and 2 others reacted to Marcolas123 for a topic
Push-fave.com has a different price schedule for non japanese speaking client (aka foreigners), it's +10,000 jpy more than the local price. After sending me an inflated price list, i sent him the screenshot of the pricelist shown in the website and he responded "That is the fee for customers who reside in Japan and have Japanese language skills... Rates are different for customers who live overseas and need to respond in English" I just wonder if i pay the extra 10,000 JPY will the boy all of a sudden speak fluent english?3 points -
3 points
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They identify the T/Bs with a small rainbow flag in the pictures. Those without a flag are considered Ts. Look out for Win who is also in this shop and at 15M and Phetboy.3 points
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Bangkok & Pattaya October / November 2024
jamiebee and 2 others reacted to bkkmfj2648 for a topic
@emiel1981 Thanks for this trip report - I was anxious to get your opinion about Da Nang - as I will go to live there next year for about 5 months. I am happy that you liked the company of my local tour guide = Lê anh. He is a GREAT guy and is so very informative. Unfortunately, I would need to disagree with that there is "no hanky panky going on...", as I reported in my April 2024 Da Nang report there were plenty of masseurs to have hanky pank with.... Perhaps Lê anh is too conservative or "innocent" to not know about the hidden orgasmic secrets of Da Nang - but he is VERY knowledgeable about all other matters. 🥰3 points -
The mini lady cocktail bar directly beside stairway that leads to Freshboy has shut down. It sprang up after Covid but never gained much traction. In its previous incarnation, I believe it was known as Red Dragon when it was operated under the management of Freshboy (@goobkk would remember). It was there that myself and others became acquainted with the sexy bartender from Myanmar (Yeye) and the various FB waiters who regularly dropped in between shows, looking for a beer and an off. I met one particular such guy who I offed numerous times. Although it occupied little space, it had a bar, sofa and a few tables. I miss the place and those who used to make it a happy landing spot.3 points
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Well done USA electors!
floridarob and 2 others reacted to Londoner for a topic
It didn't help that Biden was embarrassingly timid in dealing with the deranged and psychopathic Netanyahu. The genocide and US support for it may not have been decisive but the world's super-power being treated with such contempt by a country that it has funded, excused and cossetted for decades was not a good look.3 points -
Well done USA electors!
floridarob and 2 others reacted to Keithambrose for a topic
Negative news is always easier to sell. And as Dr Goebbels said, if you say something often enough, people will believe it. Especially on issues like immigration, where a lot of people want to believe it. Same over here in UK, during Brexit debate. Britain for the British, take back control etc. Relentless negative campaigning works!3 points -
First night in Phnom Penh
Mavica and 2 others reacted to floridarob for a topic
I've been to Spacehair, , POC, Toolbox, so far.... nothing WOW...been fun, but mostly talking with expats/tourists. POC was fun, but they all were drunk and even If I brought someone back, they would be useless..... A tuk tuk driver tried to take me somewhere and he asked what I was looking for, I told him cock. He said he had a big one, I said no you don't. He tried to get me to go in and touch it, I told him to show it...needless to say, wasn't big, lol. Tomorrow is another day I guess, but Colombian big dick guy keeps messaging me and I'm wondering why I'm on this side of the world and I keep reminding myself it's for the food and massage, 😝3 points -
Back to the original topic, I am here jn Bangkok now and for the rest of the weekend. No definite plans yet but want to do a foam party, probably Sauna Mania's on Sunday. I went to the so called Mask orgy Party (naked) at 39 Underground sauna tonight. First time there and seemed pretty busy throughout although not too sure where the orgy party was supposed to be. However did participate in some good small group action on the roof. A few people in masks that were provided but most didn't wear them. A mix of ages and body types and I didn't feel out of place there. Only saw safe play but certainly some slim, smooth and willing bottoms seemingly taking all wrapped cocks.2 points
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Halloween in Bangkok - a trip report
khaolakguy and one other reacted to Raposa for a topic
2 points -
Well done USA electors!
Ruthrieston and one other reacted to reader for a topic
And an obsessive fan at that.2 points -
I trust that the opening won't be too soft!2 points
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Well done USA electors!
vinapu and one other reacted to sydneyboy1 for a topic
As an aside I think Zelenskyy is rather cute.2 points -
Expedia as alternative for Airbnb
Latbear4blk and one other reacted to floridarob for a topic
I know some neighbors in Mexico had their homes listed on Expedia and booking.com but never had it for rent there. People would show up unexpected expecting to stay there. So not sure how strict their security/processes are, but I wouldn't take the chance....2 points -
Well done USA electors!
Ruthrieston and one other reacted to spoon for a topic
Thats why trump is a genius in his own twisted world. He managed to convince the poor that by making the rich richer, theyll be better. Hard to do that with a str8 face.2 points -
Well done USA electors!
a-447 and one other reacted to Travellover for a topic
Just for your information, inflation has been a big problem in Europe and in other parts of the world during the last years after Covid. It has not been an American problem only but a global issue. I believe that in the US, people do not really look what is happening around the world but are only caring about what is happening at home.2 points -
Tunisia
Daniel reacted to Santiagodc for a topic
I had a chance to travel for one month to Tunisia back in August and sample many of the wonderful young Arab men available. Here are some of my notes: Tunis: When I arrived, the messages on Grindr began to light up considerably. As I did in other countries, I would ask to video chat and most chose not to. It was clear in two instances that the men were contriving something as they insisted that I come to their place in the far rural section of Tunis. I agreed in one instance to meet, but decided to arrive two hours before. I sat at a café and watched the area. The young man in question arrived with four of his friends. The man sat at the bench in the center of the park where he wanted to meet, and his four friends scattered around the park. At that point I got up and took a taxi back to my hotel. I texted the guy and asked why he did not come alone as requested. When I showed him the long-range photo I took, he said he would report me to the police. Obviously, he would not and could not since he had no information. He proved the point that Grindr in Tunisia can be dangerous. I stayed the first week in a tourist hotel on Ave Habib Bourguiba (hereafter AHB) which is the main avenue in Tunis. Guests were not allowed back at the hotel so I had to try other venues. I had stayed in Tunis six times before, and usually frequented the three centrally located movie theatres where there were always some men available for action. Unfortunately, these movie theatres have now become strictly legitimate and do not allow any gay action in them at all. I also tried the Belvedere Park and Tunis Zoo which was where you could usually pick-up men and use the woods. Sadly, there were just families during the day and no men out in the evening. I had previously had good luck at both places. For this trip, I was able to find young guys only by walking the AHB. There are benches all along the central pedestrian section of the Avenue. Get yourself something to drink and just sit and watch the people. Inevitably, there will be some young guys that will walk up, sit down, and start a conversation clearly for money. In three instances I asked where we could go. In all three they took me to one of the theatres. So, while the theatre itself had no guys available, you could go in separately and then find each other in a quiet area. The biggest theatre in Tunisia (over 500 seats and three levels) is right on the AHB and is called Cinéma Le Colisée. I used to have great fun in previous years with guys in the lower section there, but now you need to find and bring your guy from outside. The second place to meet guys is at the corner where AHB crosses Rue de Marseille. Get yourself a coffee at the corner Patisserie Naouri and sit to watch the guys come by. If you smile and want to talk, you will need to get up and go chat as the servers are very careful to not allow bystanders to interfere with guests. The third place to find guys is at the east part of AHB where it meets Place du 14 Janvier 2011 (this is where the famous Clock of Habib is located). Get yourself a coffee from the corner Pomme De Pain and sit to watch all the boys gather in the park next to it. The park is located between the Pomme De Pain and the Café La Fontaine. You can have a conversation with the guys and most will know a place nearby in an alley or side street where you can do the deed. Almost all the guys at the first three places were active, while the guys at the corner park area were active and passive. I later returned on my exit from the country to stay one more week in an Airbnb that had a private entrance. In that case, I took guys back from the third location park with no problem. Sousse: I stayed in an Airbnb with private access. You can easily figure out the places to stay by reading the reviews of places on Airbnb. If a gay had a problem bringing back a guy, you will see that he compliments the owner for the security of the place and the night guard. He likewise compliments the owner for private access to signal to the rest of us the option to bring a guy back. I stayed in Sousse three weeks this time, but have also stayed six times before. The main road for finding guys is along the see wall pedestrian area starting at the northern end on Ave Hedi Chaker (hereafter AHC) where it meets the Hotel Riadh Palms, and then simply walk down the sea wall pedestrian area south past the Place Bou Jaaaar and down the Habeeb Burgioba Street (hereafter HBS) until you get to the Claridge Hotel. I walked that several times a day and you can always find young men. I found guys this time for service at two places. The first was by sitting with other gay men at the famous Café La Sirene at the Place Bou Jaafar. Sit there at the outside covered tables, have yourself an orange juice, and just watch the many many guys that parade by. If you are interested in a guy, you can ask him to join you and the staff will have no problem. The second place is the Café Jus Glaces at the corner of HBS and Rue Palestine. Sit, get a drink, watch the boys, and invite some to sit at your table. Do a google maps search and it will even show you ME sitting at the bar watching the boys go by. The go-to bar for guys keeps changing every year it seems. It used to be a bar on the northern end of Sousse near Mongi Slim, but this time it was closed. As for where to have sex, Airbnb was the way to go this time. I was able to invite many men back with no problems. Now, I did have two guys that showed me ID and they were clearly 19, but they looked much younger and I did not want to risk it. So, I asked THEM where we should go. In one instance the young man had me pay for an unofficial one-hour hotel. It required him to first talk with the clerk with me outside, then he waived me in, I passed the money to the clerk, and off we went to the room for an hour. The same happened with a second guy who took me to another place. I was very cautious because I would not provide my ID to get a room as is normally required by law. So I told the young men that I had no ID and they knew a place to go. It went so well that I always first asked a guy if he knew of a place to go. If they did not, then I would use my Airbnb. Interestingly, several other guys told me they come to Sousse from the rural areas to make some money for a few days. If they don’t get a room, then they have to stay on the streets or in a Hamman. The final place for me was the legit theatre on HBS known as Cinema Le Palace next to the Bar Tapas. This smaller theatre shows legitimate movies and is VERY frequented by couples to make out. However, there always seemed to be at least one guy for sex there in the afternoons that you could meet in the smallest bathroom stall I have ever encountered. Interestingly, the two young men who run the theatre for their family (an old man or old woman always takes the money) were both available for blow jobs when I was there. One is a bit strange with glasses, and the other seems to dye his hair a different color each time I visit. GRINDR: Be warned it can be dangerous. SEX: Most of the guys are active, like to get sucked, will fuck, and many will also kiss. Tunis and Sousse both had passive guys, but they were usually dressed with lipstick and overtly effeminate. As you will note from police reports, Sousse especially has very young guys for trade. In turn, Sousse is very active in arresting those who pay for underage sex. Two German men were arrested the week I was there because one of them took back an underage boy to his apartment and was reported. Stings are the norm and money/bribes will not help out. As one French gay couple told me, there are weekly stings that are set-up precisely to entrap foreigners who prey on the underage there. There are plenty of young boys/guys that are available of legal age. PAY: The street guys usually wanted 30-50 Tunisian dinars ($11-$18 USD) for a quick blow job. When I took a guy back to my place, they usually asked for 50-75 dinars ($18-$27). LANGUAGE: Arab and French, although the boys seem to know German and English as many gay tourists come from Germany and the UK.1 point -
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India
floridarob reacted to Pantherz for a topic
I just came across this interesting gay guide to India which seems to have some updated bar recommendations in some of the main cities. In case anyone finds this useful: https://nomadicboys.com/gay-india/1 point -
Aw! The sexist raping lying loser is gonna lose. Who could have seen this coming?
stevenkesslar reacted to EmmetK for a topic
So there were no Trump signs? Gee, and that is your barometer for how to measure the popularity of Donald Trump in Iowa? Lol. Are lawn signs one of Allan Lichtman's (aka the Village Idiot, aka Tweedle Dee Dee aka the Smug Professor) magical keys? Are you now using the now-totally debunked Lichtman method of prognostication? Followed by him and his blathering acolyte who heavily promoted him and his magical keys here on this forum? Lol. President Trump won Iowa by almost 13 points, and he swept in with him all four House Reps. I hear that Lichtman and Selzer (aka Tweedle Dee Dee and Tweedle Dee Dum) will be taking their comedy act on the road. Oh, and are the folks at Bulwark, including that obnoxious and smug Sam Stein, STILL SMILING? TRUMP2024 MAGA1 point -
Which Celebrities will actually LEAVE?
Bingo T Dog reacted to Pete1111 for a topic
Her zexy Christmas pajamas. See Josh Hawley thinking "gurrrrrrl"1 point -
You’re a Trump fan, too? Not that there’s anything wrong with that.1 point
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So what about all the thousands upon thousands of tourists who stay for the 60 days or in many cases much longer and are on essential medication?1 point
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From Pattaya Mail By Barry Kenyon British pensioners abroad, including Thailand, will soon lose UK banking confidentiality if suspected of cheating on their state pension. The Data Protection and Digital Information Bill, presently at committee stage in the House of Lords, is expected to come into force early in 2025. It requires British banks and building societies to share with the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) the accounts of British citizens, both at home or abroad, where fraud looks likely. The main abuse amongst a small minority of British expats is hiding the fact that they live in countries not eligible to receive annual increases in the state pension. The rules are idiosyncratic as such inflation-linked raises are permitted in some countries (e.g. the EU and the Philippines) but not in others (e.g. Thailand and Australia). Around 500,000 British pensioners live abroad with “frozen” state pensions and the DWP believes that overpayment amounts to 100 million pounds. Miscreants usually keep a UK address for postal contact with DWP even though they are spending all or much of their time abroad. One Thai-based Brit was found out last year when a DWP letter sent to his London address was returned by a neighbour with the comment “Lucky Sod Lives in Pattaya”. Another was exposed after his UK wife found out he was enjoying himself in Bangkok rather than working in Baghdad as she had been mischievously told. The new act will likely show up in computerized data those state pension claimants receiving annual increases who appear (from their bank accounts) to be based in foreign lands. However, the Thailand-based pressure group to end frozen UK pensions pointed out that cheating is a very minor problem. The bigger issues, according to a spokesman, are DWP mistakes in processing claims and the nonsense of discrimination according to which country you happen to live in. Neither the previous Conservative government, nor the incumbent Labour one, has shown any interest in remedying the problem. Another issue of concern to many expats in Thailand is the unreliable international postal system. Every three years, the UK authorities demand a certificate of life (proof you are still alive) to continue payments, but the letters are dispatched by ordinary air mail via an agency in Holland. Many letters are never delivered, leading to suspension of payment when no reply is received. “The whole system is insane and discriminatory,” said Pattaya-based Frank Weston who is 68. He suggested that the paper trail should end and be transferred to a digital system.1 point
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Happy that u found a gem after so many disappointments during the last trip! How long are you staying until?1 point
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Well done USA electors!
Ruthrieston reacted to AsianExplorer for a topic
Another thing I heard a lot among Trump voters is the tariff. It seems that they don't understand how tariffs work. Many interviewees said foreign countries pay the tariff. I was like???? and they believe the tariff will benefit the economy and help the inflation???????1 point -
Patpong comings and goings
vinapu reacted to bkkmfj2648 for a topic
I am happy to learn that our Emiel was able to meet our 2 VERY notable forum members. Bravi!!! @emiel1981 welcome to the club!! 😘1 point -
I thought the Dems should have gone for the jugular when Biden got voted in, but he lacked the balls to match republican tactics.1 point
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Well done USA electors!
Ruthrieston reacted to vinapu for a topic
That is certainly part of plan to make America great again1 point -
My First night in Siem Reap
BjornAgain reacted to floridarob for a topic
Woke up early to take Grab to DMK from Tarntawan , don't forget to add any promos you have available, front desk at the Tarntawan reminded me, I would've forgotten. AirAsia was 30 minutes delayed, no one seemed to mind, what a difference to the US, lol Grab was about 30usd from Siam Reap airport to hotel when I checked ahead of time, hotel offered pickup for 35usd, was def better to have someone waiting, I did advise them of the delay. Hotel recommended by @vinapu is 100% great, so far....I'd say is 5* service and comfortable rooms walking distance to everything, about $40usd a night all in with breakfast, king bed with balcony, I'd stay here again in a heartbeat, Crown Royal hotel. I was a bit sleepy by the time I got settled in , even though they gave me an early check in easily and maybe they thought I was bringing my make believe wife from the picture shown 🙄 I ordered a double smash burger with fries and a ginger ale for $7 usd delivered and was really tasty. Took a nap, watched depressing news about the Orange monster and headed out about 940pm. Went to B-Ball first, small bar very nice guys, I was only customer so a little awkward , stayed for one soda and moved around to Home Cocktail, too many females, then to Rendezvous, too empty, and then to Barcode, lots of females but a nice show and friendly staff. Nothing interesting on the apps, but plenty in the streets that are my type, however all with girlfriends/spouses After the shows at Barcode went walking around some more, most places close at 1am except Pub Street, too many Heteros for me, lol Went back to Home Cocktail and 2 guys that were in the show recognized me and invited me to sit with them.....one was one of the drags in the show, I told him I'm bottom and he tried to get me to go with one of the guys that was the dancer...saying he could massage me and had a big dick. Until i showed him some Colombians and Brazilians, they both almost fell to the floor. It's all relative I guess 😆 I would've taken a massage from him but by that time, I was too full and tired to do anything...plus there was no hard sell, marketing classes could come in handy here.....tomorrow is another day? Super cheap compared to Thailand for everything , but no hookups, maybe my fault for taking such a long nap 🤷♂️1 point -
It didn't look like it but they escorted me all the way to the right hand side, I suppose the fast track / priority counters (there was only the 2 counters there), I just showed them the business class boarding pass and away I went.1 point
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The boys I saw there were all rather good looking and for the most part had toned bodies (probably just the one that didn't take my eye), I would say a good mix of twinks and those with more muscular bodies but I didn't see any big muscular types. Going early, as to be expected, there wasn't too many there but by the time I was leaving quite a few had arrived and from what I saw a very nice gathering indeed.1 point
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Well done USA electors!
Travellerdave reacted to zombie for a topic
No I was not being serious in the sense when i made the post it was clear to me who was going to win so I headed the post sarcastically 'Well done USA electors!" (note the exclamation mark... I really meant the opposite) -then I increased the sarcasm by saying Make American Gay Again. Being from a British background sarcasm is part of our culture.... I am truly sorry to learn of your nephew's anxiety. Stay safe. And remember the UK also has a lot of idiots when it comes to voting...look what happened when they were asked to vote for Brexit... .....Take Care.1 point -
When discussion about tips, there are two parts of this. One is the quoted rate, and accepted rate by the boy if there is haggling down. Another is anything above quoted or agreed amount after service has beend done. While the former miggt have a general going rate based on location or local/foreigner or twink/hunks etc, the later is totally up to the discretion of the customer. Both parts will be driven by the market forces. The more of the supply available, going rate might be cheaper, and vice versa. The more generous customers willing to pay higher tips than going rate, i firmly believe itll make the service provider work harder for next time, and will keep them around longer in the business too. Furthermore, this will also entice more new comers to come to the scene, as they know the rewards are great. When i see people complaining about lack of boys, newer guys no longer interested working in sex industry etc, maybe its the pittance of a tip they gets is to be blamed. If 1.5k baht is the rate 12 years ago, and people now only want to pay 700, do we expect more guys will want to work for less? On the other spectrum, we now also have those instafamous, influencer, onlyfans creator etc who charges quite high rate to hire them, and for me, that is also totally understandable. Do i think higher rate equals better quality service? In my narrow personal experience, yes, especially on subsequent meets. Will higher rate change my decision to hire them again? Yes. If its too expensive even for me, i wont be taking him as many times id want. For example, i couldve taken him 4 times in a trip if he charges 1k less, but only take him 3 times. Again, i agree that tips should go hand in hand with inflation and it is what will keep replenish new guys on the scene. If i know anyone who overpay, i should thank them for the incentive they gives to keep guys who gives great services to maintain in the industry so i can enjoy the guy too in the future hehe.1 point
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Malaysia Trip Report
pong2 reacted to FunFifties for a topic
Georgetown, Penang Island was a wonderful place to visit and I could have easily spent several days more exploring the island, eating wonderful food and hooking up with cute local talent. I stayed four nights. First night I arrived late. The very long and dull bus ride was longer than expected due to some kind of accident related traffic jam on the way. So the first night was uneventful. The next couple of days and nights were delightfully busy. I did a food tour with a guide who was also very knowledgeable about local history, culture and economy, hiked through mangrove forest in the small national park on the northwestern part of the island, visited Chinese gangster’s/merchant’s mansions, enjoyed British colonial buildings, had lots of tasty food and no less than five hook-ups. Hook-ups were all Grindr induced and took place in my hotel room. Again there was no issue bringing guests to my room. I stayed at the Cititel Penang - the one close to the Blue Mansion. I met one of them for a drink before coming back to the hotel and the others I met in the hotel Lobby. From my anecdotal experience and Grindr ressearch I would assess that Indian and Malay Malaysians prefer to top and Chinese Malaysians prefer to bottom, but I am sure there will be exceptions to confirm this rule. I would reccomend Malaysia to anyone who likes food and quickies with regular guy-next- door types in their 20s or 30s. I hope to go back sometime in the not so distant future, but my next Asian adventure will be Thailand (second time) and Cambodia (first time).1 point -
Hey Thanks for the account. Opinions differ and that's just fine. My experiences in Egypt are the total opposite to yours. From the moment you arrive and walk out of the airport, you are greeted by a bunch of good-looking taxi drivers wanting to drive you 'home' and help you carry your luggage two floors high upon arrival, only to then ask to visit the toilet (Should I continue?). Their faces are not the most handsome on earth - true -, but almost all of their bodies are goddess, and far from anything you would see on a typical Western European street. The majority of these drivers would work out and focus on turning fat into muscles. They often would burst out of their shirts, their hairy well-defined chests visible, and pumping muscles moving when they speak to you, powerfully looking you in the eyes, never losing its grip. You mentioned Maadi. Didn't you enjoy that leafy suburb? Did you go to any 'hammams'? Keep enjoying your travels! B.1 point
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Month in Cairo report
pong2 reacted to Birmingham boy for a topic
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Luang Prabang is really small city and after dark sleepy at that, so you need to trim your expectations re bars , clubs, spas and massages. But You may get lucky on apps. I did1 point
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I just returned from a trip to Egypt. It was on my way to my destination, so I decided to add a stopover in Egypt for a week to explore. 1. Markets: It was very hard to arrange anything. Each shop is next to each other and publicly visible so I am not sure how one can just close the shop and do the deeds...Maybe @Santiagodc can enlighten us? 2. Aswan: It is dead if you are looking for a hot young guy. The boat drivers are all old and there are some young (youngish) horse drivers but very limited. Most of them are skinny guys, not very clean and no place to do, so it was somewhat disappointing for me. I was told that the most young guys moved to north (i think they mean Luxor). This is probably because Aswan doesn't attract as many tourists as luxor. There was one guy who was my type. He looked more like a mix of sudanese and egyptian, nice body: slim but toned with curvy black arse. The funny part is that after arriving at Aswan late at night, I decided just to walk on cornich to see the scene, not to do anything because it was late and I was tired after a long trip. But this guy (mixed looking guy) asked me if I wanted a ride while passing by me and I said no because I really didn't wanna deal with price negotiation at that time. He stopped his horse carriage a bit ahead of my direction and started walking toward me and I noticed he was touching his pen!s casually, as if most guys just do it but quite noticeable for me. He asked for me a ride for free and I said no and then i stopped me on cornice and asked me to touch his stuff down there. I was just shocked because it was on cornice so I said no with a smile and looked around. He then took me to his carriage and he sat on the carriage and showed his stuff on street. it was somewhat hidden but quite visible for anyone who would pay attention. he said I can suck him there and I said no but he asked me to sit inside the carriage and he sat in front of me. I asked for his price and he said 200, which is like 5usd so i sat there and he pulled cover over me and gave me his stuff, in the middle of the cornish road. I sucked and he came within a minute. I liked it as an experience because I did it in front of everything on cornish, otherwise it was not worth. He got my number and asked me to come back next day for full sex and I got it. Then he took me to his friend, who was not my type and recommended him. I just refused and went to my hotel. Next day, he said he has a place and if he fucks me he has to pay for the place, that was 400 and plus 200 for the sex, total of 600. I said yes and he took me with his carriage. Guess what, he stopped at a mosque with a big ground around it and jumped over the fence and asked me to do the same and I followed him to the mosque area. In the ground around the mosque, there was a small empty house, which looked like a guard post under construction and he asked me to do the deed inside there. Trash were everything and it was dark and visible from outside but it was dark and no one was around. He fucked me but it was quick. Again I did it for the experience but not the sex was not good. So I didn't meet him again, though he called me almost million times...Next day, it was so hot, so I changed my plan to explore the city and opened up grindr. Very few guys there and I can easily see guys in Luxor...One of them contacted me and sent me his face pictures etc. I was kinda shocked and thought he sent a fake picture but he was good looking, slim toned guy. I asked him if I can invite him to my hotel, he said in egypt it is not possible but he invited me to his place. Well, it was a day, so i took a cab to his place and he was real....I kinda thought there is a possibility of robbing me but it was a day time in a residential area, so I thought I could seek for help easily. He took me upstairs and we did it in an apartment under construction...I don't know how it works but in the same building, some apartments are completed and people live and some are still under construction without windows...And we did it there and he put some blankets on the floor. It was not that bad as a bed but no toilet facility and people could see us because there was no window...But hey, free sex with a decently hot guy, it was totally worth the risk. I think this sex itself made my trip to aswan worthwhile. The rest was boring: boat drivers are grandpa level old, camel riders are extremely ugly and old or a little child. Some hot guys in the market but they didn't have a shop and didn't have an eye contact with me... 3. Luxor. The market had the same issue as 1 and the sellers are more aggressive there. Luxor has a lot more young guys there but the boat drivers were generally older (daddy level oldness, not grandpa). I think this is because I actually saw a lot more tourists in luxor than aswan. One decently looking guy asked me to take his horse ride for 50 EGP for an hour, I said why not. He kept driving me around without any hint of doing the deed, so I was kinda surprised...But after 20min ride, he stopped at a barber shop and another guy jumped into the carriage. Apparently they share the carriage and this hot was just all over me. As soon as he hopped in, he shake hand and kept caressing my hand without releasing...He was too skinny for my taste but he had a charming smile and decent face, so I kept talking to him and I wanted to know how things work in Luxor. He took me to a house (yes a proper house, proper bed, and proper toilet) and we did it there for 400. The most surprising part was that he didn't care about the people in the house. Many people saw us entering and walking around the house and we used one big room with toilet, so I am guessing everyone else there knew what was going on haha. Surprisingly he lasted quite a bit, so I am guessing he is used to it. Anyway, that was fun and he offered me many things and I said i will think about it. Next day, I explored the cornish and market and boat. More or less the same issue. Luxor horse riders are young but mostly skinny guys, so not my type. Boat drivers are older than my preferred type, market guys are hard to close the deal, so I decided to enjoy the touristy stuff. 4. Cairo. I had a very low expectation for Cairo because of this forum information. a. hotel staff: none of them were my type, either old or too skinny. So I decided to go to the gym. I stayed in two hotels in Cairo, both 5* with a proper gym. First hotel had a gym instructor who is kinda hot but he didnt speak english at all. I was the only person there and I wanted to make some conversation via google translate but he didn't give me any hint so I decided not waste my time. Another was Ritz (former Hilton) because I really wanted to see the infamous sauna there. The gym instructor was older than my type, so I went to the sauna. There was a staff there, who seemed to have given me some hint but he was not really my type, so I just enjoyed the sauna. There was a few locals who use the gym but this is the rich and ugly part of the society so i left quickly. The room cleaner was def into this sort of stuff but he was skinny and there were two of them: one old and one young. I wasn't bothered to mess up with them because the young one was too skinny. b. UBER. this is new and I knew some uber drivers do this sorta stuff from my experience in other countries. But i realized that Uber taxi drivers were older or not so fit, so not my type. Then I thought Uber bike!!! I ordered an uber bike for 5 minute ride from my hotel because my purpose was not taking it but to see the driver. guess what, as soon as I confirmed, the driver messaged me and said "you want a bike or an arab?" this was a google translation built in the uber app...I acted like I don't know what it meant and he just said forget about it and started moving toward me. I acted this way because I wanted to see the guy. Uber shows a face picture but not always the same person and you can't see the body. The guy came and he had a nice face but very skinny body so I didn't give any hints. But I think there are a lot opportunities there to explore haha c. Hammam/massage. I love hammams and massage even without sex so I checked some in cairo. I had two hammams and two massage places. One hammam was just bad: they didn't know what they were doing, they only try to sell drinks and very unfriendly reception etc. I didn't get any hints from hammam attendants and I am happy that they didnt because they were ugly and unfit. Another hammam was very diffent: friendly staff thoroughout and didn't bother me so mcuh with drink sales...The interesting part is that the hammam attendant was going a little deeper than usual into my groin area. And his pen!s slight touched me twice...Well he was not fit or toned so I didn't react. I think one could explore it with some caution. Two massage places were the same like the two hammam places: one good and one bad. The bad one was not that bad, the massage therapist was good but just didn't show any hints and didn't go deeper inside my groin or anywhere near for that matter. The good one was such a surprise. He had an excellent massage skill (hard pressure) so I was already happy when he started from my feet. Then as he goes up, he gets deeper inside my legs without any hesitation. I have never had such confident aggressiveness (in a good way!) in a massage. As he was going through my thighs, he touched my balls a couple of times and we went up into my ass and gave me a proper ass massage haha. Then he fingered me without even asking, just as if it was a part of the massage and he kept doing the massage and sometimes the finger gets into my ass...Oh my, this is a pleasant surprise. He went to my back and shoulders but I could fee his penis on my head. When he asked me to turn around, i was just super hard and he would go around and casually touch my hard penis...And I stopped being shy and started touching him and he didn't stop me but he was not hard. He was nto really my type but the experience was so good. Then his phone alarm went off and he stopped immediately and said the time is up. He asked me dress up and leave, even without asking for a tip....Anyway the change room was in a different room, so I left to the change room. I got my bag from the locker and gave him a tip discreetly. That was probably the highlight of Cairo. d. Grindr/tinder: I noticed apps are very active. Grindr probably has more fake profiles but some people had this instagram linked so I think there are some real guys out there. I was just too buy to interact with them and because I cannot bring them to my hotel, I didn't pay much attention to them. If anyone knows a way to solve this accommodation issue, do let me know, I think I will visit Egypt again1 point
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Egypt update
pong2 reacted to Santiagodc for a topic
Baska, HAHAHAHA… well, you are certainly invited “to look for an adventure” on my “ass”, but I think there are far finer young men there that will suffice! Seriously, though, since I don’t know you, how often you have been to Egypt, or what you are planning to do whilst there, I can only offer what I might do to start the trip. Given the hour you arrive and given my age, I would be ready for bed. HOWEVER, I would also want to make sure I had every opportunity to sample the Egyptian morsels that might be available that night BEFORE I hit the bed. So, my plan of action might be something like this: When I arrive I am sure the hotel might have a van for me. I would dispense with that and choose to find a taxi or ride myself. There will typically be two kinds… the official taxi at the taxi stand, and the nice young men offering a private car just for you. Now the tour books say to stay FAR AWAY from the private dudes and you REALLY SHOULD if you are a novice to Egypt. Me?... well, I size up the attractiveness of the taxi drivers versus the private drivers. If there is a sexy taxi driver, then I negotiate a price and off we go. The same is for the private driver, although I have to be careful and mindful of safety. Once I am in the privacy of the car, the fun begins. You must always remember that the Egyptian wants to take you for EVERY euro or dollar or pound that you possess. Knowing that, and knowing that young Egyptian males are always horny, I must think of a way to “create the condition by which he will offer me his dick for money”. IF he asks if I am married (see my posts above about the marriage question), well, the fun has begun and the odds are in my favor. I have had a number of taxi drivers pull into a dark area and let me do the deed. If possible, I usually try to put my luggage in the back seat and always sit next to the driver in the front seat. That, obviously, means he can see my smile and my eyes as I speak with him about what he can offer to me for my money!!!! Sometimes that is just not possible. Now let’s say you negotiate a price, do the deed, and head to the hotel… you should remember that once you pay him, there is a 75% chance he will say it is not enough. Fear not, young padawan, he is hoping for this so just give him the money. He may throw up his hands in disgust and not take the money. Well, I just throw it at him when he tries that (AFTER I have retrieved my luggage). I usually pay for the taxi, the blow job, and a little tip. Now let’s say your drive to the hotel was uneventful and nothing happened. Well, given the hour, you next have a chance with the lowly bellhop who will be bored at that hour and pissed that he is working a shift where he cannot make money like the day and afternoon shifts. In that case, I strike up a conversation and give a smile from the very first moment the desk attendant gives the key to the bell boy. As we are in the elevator, I wait for him to ask if I am married. If he does not, then I gently ask him if he is married. From that conversation we see if I might have some action in the room. I always pray to all the Egyptian gods that I get a sexy bellhop because I have had some great times with them. Now if even that is uneventful, I then go to bed sad and wake up late. I shower/shave and tidy myself the next morning. I then peek out the door to see if a room attendant is already cleaning the room on the floor at the late hour I awoke. If they are and the person is a sexy male, well my quest begins anew. I then take my room key and go meet my floor attendant. I smile, say hello, show him my key, and then ask for an extra soap or shampoo. Remember…he wants my money!!!! I must “create the condition by which he will offer me his dick for money”. I then return to my room and if the door has one of those cleaning hanger things, then I turn it to show I want my room cleaned. I then proceed to get some work done until… BAMM… my door opens and in my sexy attendant comes to clean my room. I actually already have some money out on the table for him to see, as well as smile and tell him to not go away but go ahead and clean now while I work. Without being obtrusive, I find some way to make conversation with him. I am hoping he will ask for some money at the end. If he does then… BAMM… I am about to pounce on my prey. So, the key is to look for opportunities where his desire for your money, your desire for his dick, and privacy… all combine to make the odds in your favor. So, whilst there is no Aquarius or similar sauna precisely where escorts are sitting and waiting when you arrive, there are ways to start your trip to Egypt. Just be on the lookout for all the days that follow and remember they really want your money. If this is your first time, then I urge again that you be prudent and cautious until you get the lay of the land and the people. Good luck and be sure to report back here!1 point -
Egypt update
pong2 reacted to Santiagodc for a topic
Oh my! It sounds as though you and I have travelled to many of the same places. Twenty years ago I began the quest to explore the ancient Roman, Early Christian, Byzantine, and Crusader sites of northern Africa and the Middle East. I did extreme western Egypt about 10 years ago. I took a Land Rover up to Marsa Matru, Sidi Barrani, and El Salloum. I then came back through Siwa Oasis to Bahariya Oasis and along the famous Oasis route 60. Another year I did the whole Abu Simbel to Port Said trip. I wanted to head over to Sharq El Owainat but the driver was too scared. I had completed the whole Alexandria to Abu Simbel trek many times via car, train, plane, and boat (Nile and Canal). I visited Sharm El-Sheikh two years ago because I wanted to do the whole St. Catherine monastery trek and climb the mountain of Charleton Heston. Sharm was filled with more Russian, German, and UK tourists than Egyptians it seemed. Easy Jet had made the place quite accessible. I stayed at Tropitel Waves Naama Bay and had a good experience. A gay Egyptian friend from Alexandria told me that the Sharm is certainly ripe now for gays to explore with some male fun. Previously the guys mainly were only interested in the money and sex of the countless old foreign women that were there. With the collapse of the tourist market, most hotels are closed and my friend said it was almost to the point that the guys were even paying HIM to suck them off when he visited. I found only one guy in my resort hotel for sex (a room attendant). Outside the resort, I tried the supposed Marine Park by the Albatross Hotel. I had no luck there, nor the corners of High El Noor and Nabaq as mentioned on the web. So, I went west and decided to take a walk along the beach on the other side of the Beach Albatros Sharm (El-Bahr). I went north along the beach and saw many young men smiling at me and rubbing their crotches on offer. I got excited, but I could see no place to do the deed anywhere nearby in the day light. I walked further up to the public beach area until I was stopped by a resort wall/border. I had to leave to get back for a flight, so I never had a chance to explore the area better. I would think it might be ripe for fun in the late evening, not unlike the Kornish in Sousse! Maybe you or someone else has more recent information! I have never been much into staying inside a resort for a week and the shark viewing experience pales in comparison to the one I did in Cape Town. So, it really depends on your interest. Sharm is a nice location to start if you then like to explore history with St Catherine’s and the suppose Mount Sinai! Cheers!1 point -
Egypt update
pong2 reacted to Santiagodc for a topic
Oh, dear Lord... absolutely! After 20 years of traveling there I have begun to believe that every young Arab male is secretly bi-curious or just so horny that he just needs to get off somehow. If he can do it for money, he at least believes he is doing it not because he is gay but because his family or he needs the money. In some instances, as you may know, you may be talking with them and they will lightly touch your ass. At that point I get excited because they want not just a blow job but some serious action! I will be back in Egypt myself in July.1 point -
Marrakesh Visit
pong2 reacted to Santiagodc for a topic
PART THREE: SEX: I found guys for sex in the daylight hours only outside the Café Atlas and at the Theatre. At night, I found sex in all the other places already noted. 99% of the guys are active and will only get sucked or fuck. Strangely, many of these same active guys (about 75%) were willing to also do great kissing. The exception was near the Pizza Hut where I found passive guys that would do it all. GRINDR: I had been warned that both police and crooks used Grindr in Marrakesh to steal from gay foreign men. I had plenty of messages and required each guy to video chat with me. When a guy would not, I simply blocked him. Most of the guys were dark skinned Africans who were only active and offering their services. In virtually every conversation it just didn’t feel right. I finally met up with one white skinned guy at McDonald’s one evening. I took him to a nearby park and had fun for about an hour. ALL the gays I met in Marrakesh warned me about Grindr scams, so I finally realized I had plenty of other guys I can find in much safer venues. MONEY: Grindr guys asked for 500-750 dirhams ($55-$83). Street, Jemaa, and Theatre guys asked for 150-200 dirhams ($16-$22) LANGUAGE: Most speak Arabic or French. You can get by with google translate but be warned that some street guys may try to steal your phone. For the most part, you can use gestures and number signs to flash what you want or will pay. LOCATION: I used the parks, side alleys, and theatres. WARNING: For the most part, I felt very safe in Marrakesh. I had only two scary moments in Marrakesh. The first was at the Art Garden where a man was walking home with a friend. A scooter suddenly pulled up, a guy grabbed the man’s briefcase, and then started to drive off. The man fought them off and the scooter sped away. The man was hit pretty badly and required an ambulance. I served as a witness because the police were nearby and caught the scooter by ramming it. Exciting action! The second really scary moment came near the Pizza Hut. I had finished with my evening and was walking back to my hotel along AMV. I stopped for only 30 seconds to give a young man a cigarette when he asked. Suddenly, a “tourist cop” pulled up and separated us. He talked with the young man and then placed him in the police car. He then came to me and asked for ID. I showed him a photocopy of my passport and told him in English that I was on my way back to my hotel. I asked him why he was detaining the young man. He asked if I knew him and I said no. He then said he was going to arrest the young man because he was talking to a foreigner which was not allowed. He said that for 1000 dirhams he would free the guy if I wanted to pay. I refused and the cop drove away with the young man. I saw the young man the next day on my daily walk and he said he had to pay the cop 300 dirhams and give him a blow job to not be arrested. I would find out from local gays that this kind of scam happens regularly with foreigners. PLACES TO NOT GO: Locals gays noted regular police raids on: Cyber Park (A’rasat Mulay Abdeslam) and the Hammam Es Salam. SUMMATION: I find Arab guys incredibly sexy and have had great times in Morocco. It is true that most want to get the most from you as possible, but we all already know that. Except for the Airbnb experience in Rabat, I felt safe most all the other times. Once the lockdown finishes, I plan to take another tour of the Middle Eastern and African men!!!1 point -
Marrakesh Visit
pong2 reacted to Santiagodc for a topic
PART TWO: Now, nothing much happened during the day at the Jemaa. At night, however, some of the strangest rituals in the Middle East proceeded to happen. To prepare, you need to do the following: Store all your money and ID in your shirt pocket or travel pouch. Get yourself a jacket of some kind that zips up the front so no hands can get to shirt pockets. Then get yourself plenty of 20 dirham notes ($2) and fold then really small so they will separately be recognizable by your hand when placed in your shirt pocket. During the course of the evening you will NOT be able to look at the money, but just reach into your pocket and feel to pull out of the 20 dirham bills. You also need coinage that you will need to donate at various times to the music groups who have a man that comes around seeking donations. I kept the bills in my shirt pocket, the coins for the groups in my right pant pocket, and never took my right hand out except for a brief moment. You will see many music performers or groups that start to perform in the evening. As they perform, crowds will start to form a circle around them. Suddenly you will see old men in the first circle around the performers, and then another second circle will form. GET IN THAT SECOND CIRCLE! You will probably be the only foreigner in the group so you are going to notice that old and young men start to form beside and around you. For most, their goal is to pick-pocket you and take your money. As they start to put their hands into your pockets you need to give them a stern push and look. Be mindful that they usually operate in twos… one will do the touching and when you turn to him, the other is on the other side and goes for your other pockets. These guys will get really, really, really close to you and that is actually the norm. In fact, some of the guys are NOT there for pick-pocketing by only to have you play with their dick. Here is where I had some fun! Inevitably there will be some young guys that will stand next to you… actually, they stand right behind and beside you to your left or right. They will position their crotch to be where your hand is located. Remember, they are not there for the nice music. Give them a glance and then just look around to make sure there are people behind and around you both so that your hand actions cannot be seen. Then, let your hand drift to the young guys crotch to enjoy feeling his dick. It will start to get hard and he may even unzip for you to play with it. This is all done whilst you are still looking at the group performing. The music is not long, so the action will soon stop. At that point, I just reached through my jacket into my shirt pocket to take out a 20 dirham note. While still looking at the group, I then handed it to his hand without anyone knowing. I basically just paid $2 to cop-a-feel of a sexy young Arab guy. We all then walked away as we go to another group. The age range goes from very young to very old. If there is a guy you want to do more with, then turn to leave the group and give him the eye with a smile. As you walk away a short distance, stop and turn. He will usually follow and you can have a conversation. You can go to the nearby Parc Lalla Hasna park or theatre for some privacy to do more. After about one hour of feeling up various guys, I suddenly found young guys all around me for the rest of the evening seeking a little cash. They seemed to have told their friends what I liked and how to get a little extra cash. Over the course of two weeks, I easily enjoyed feeling 15-20 Arab cocks each evening whilst listening to music. THEATRE: Right next to the Jemaa is a movie theatre showing regular movies. It is located on Passage Prince Moulay Rachid next to the Café Glacier Restaurant. That theatre has three levels. One of the boys I enjoyed at the Jemaa told me that if I gave him money for a theatre ticket and we went separately, then we could meet up later in the theatre for some better action. He was 19 and had the biggest dick for a young Moroccan that I had ever touched. We walked to the theatre, he paid his ticket, and then he went for the basement level down some steps. I then arrived five minutes later and did the same. That basement area of the theatre is actually the main floor and easily seats 300 people. The upper two levels are where couples go to make-out and cuddle. As you walk in, you will give the old man your ticket stub. He may try to seat you, and that is ok. If not, go to the far back left section of the theatre. This is where you may actually already find some young guys there ready to offer some sex for money. If you got seated by the old man, then just sit and wait a few minutes. Then as you get up be sure to eye your guy and you both can meet in that back left section. You can usually give your guy a full blow job there, or you can go to the rather dirty bathroom which had some stalls that you can use for fucking. PART THREE FOLLOWS..1 point