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Meet someplace neutral (like Starbucks, they were designed specifically for assignations like this; certainly not for its coffee.

You make very good points, as does Spoon and emiel1981. To say, as Olddaddy does, that it's a business transaction, misses the point. I have said before that the idea of screwing a boy down (pun intended), to a ludicrously low level, is unacceptable, in my view, especially boasting about it on line. So I'm with you on this.

Except for one who asked for "taxi money" after sex, everyone I met on Grindr on my visit to Thailand last year was free. So in my experience it is totally possible to meet nice guys in their 20's and 30's who don't expect payment. With some of them I would go out for drinks and dinner that I usually paid for, but I also had one guy who insisted on treating me for lunch and one where we took turns paying as we ate our way through a street food market. I still keep in touch with a couple of my dates and hope to meet them again when I go back in a few months.

Is it mind over matter?, no it is more a case of what matters to you at different stages in your life. Not every sexual encounter has to finish with a climax (just ask any woman! hahaha). And certainly not at my age. The fun for me is in the sexual encounter itself; in its intimacy, the foreplay, usually, but not always, penetration. For me, if my partner cums that is a win for me; if I cum it is a bonus. Now at 70 I manage my expectations; as long as I enjoy the journey I don't worry too much if I don't arrive at the destination every trip. When I first started coming to Pattaya in my 50s, my expectations (of myself in particular) were a lot higher, but that was then, this is now. At my age, for example, threesomes help. I can be as involved as I want to be, or can manage to be, and then the other two can go-at-it like rabbits until they too have had enough. My holidays have nothing to do with trying to impress my peers, they are entirely about me enjoying myself as best I can, and that, year by year, is proving an evolving ambition.

I think it is normal the western and African guys ask a bit more than Asian guys. Just because scarcity leads to higher prices. I think for Pattaya 1500 or 2000 for massage session and some fun (st) is acceptabel. I like to be generous and offer 2000 if the boy is goodlooking (for me than means hunk instead of twink) and services are provided as wished for. Funny to see boy prices almost always lead to (small) discussions. I think for everybody the idea of what are acceptable fees are different. Same that if a boy is "good" in the opinion of one customer, somebody else can maybe not like, because the massage is too soft or too hard for their personal liking. I might offend some with this, but: Years ago when I first came to Thailand (2012) it was said 1500 baht was generally spoken the normal fee for boys in Pattaya and in Bangkok that was 2000. Isn't it normal that these prices go up a bit during the years? In general prices went up, also for local life (rent, food) in Thailand. How can you expect still to pay the same as more than 10yrs ago? Also: offering a boy 700baht and him accepting this, is that just making a good deal or is it maybe using the boy because he is desperate for some money? Food for thought. (and maybe angry replies) 🤣

TRIP REPORT: LAST DAY IN PATTAYA While all bars in Jomtien Supertown Complex had every night just a few customers sitting on the terraces, it was different on Wednesday night in @home bar. Every week there's a free bingo from 8pm till 10pm. The terrace and inside area of the bar were full of farangs, some with their boys. I had no luck. Last round I only needed one more number to get full card bingo and wining a bottle of alcohol or jackpot money. But somebody was having bingo just before me. In earlier trip report I mentioned I had a massage moneyboy from USA. Some of you commented on Russians and other nationalities available for paid sex (oh sorry, massage off course I mean). On grindr I did find the well known (top) guys from Madagascar. But there was also a guy Morocco (long curly hair) and a western looking guy that I don't know nationality of on the app promoting their services. See pics below. Another western guy from France caught my eye. First he asked 4k. But without too much effort his price dropped to a more reasonable 2500baht. Invited him to my room for a very satisfying massage (sensual, medium pressure) where he was a good bottom for me. He stays one more month in Pattaya, for who is looking on Grindr for him. One of his pics is below. I'm writing this trip report while I'm at Suvarnabhumi Airport for my flight to China. The friendly driver of The Limo Pattaya was on time this morning at my hotel and dropped me at the airport about 90 minutes later, after a smooth drive in a confortable car. After round trip in China, Hong Kong and Vietnam I will be back in Bangkok 4 more nights before heading home. Probably will write something about these Bangkok nights also next month.

I beg to differ. Rimming is more intimate lol

The best book I've ever bought about Thailand is "Very Thai" by Phillip Cornwel-Smith, published by River Books (Thailand) in 2005. It is a survey of popular Thai culture, dealing with many issues which are uniquely Thai, and is full of beautiful photographs. The chapter on the Sniff Kiss ("hom kaem") is particularly interesting. Recommended. It's available from Amazon and I expect eleshere (I bought my copy in Dom Muang ) and has been updated. A great Christmas present for anyone who loves Thailand as we do.

https://x.com/bonheur_massage?s=21&t=SsPuhwR7PT9SKfSlpkJZOA Be sure to have logged in to X before clicking. A new massage place have opened in Bangkok on the 22nd of October. It looks upscale, and I am not sure of their range of services.

Set out for 9p.m. appointment at the most recent massage shop to open in the area: Phoenix. It was a pleasant and dry evening, perfect for the leisurely 25-minute walk. When I arrived on Inthamara 25, quickly located shop but it was closed. Puzzled because I’d made appointment, I texted shop on LINE and they sent me map link. It was all in Thai and nothing at all looked familiar. I followed with another text saying I’m on Inthamara 25 and shop answers, “sorry, we move to Lat Phrao 110.” Result: one disappointed customer and one disappointed masseur. Now in need of a sure-thing fix, I backtracked and headed for Phetboy and booked same guy from last Saturday who didn’t disappoint. I was a bit slow in cleaning up after and told guy to go to shower and I’d soon follow after checking phone. When I got to shower room, I opened door and placed towel on rack and ran a hand down boy’s back. Suddenly realized his tattoo had changed design and he seemed to be taller. He turned around with a surprised but amused look. Yes, it was a different masseur. Embarrassed, all I could think to say was “sorry. He was just finishing up and toweling off. Couldn’t help but noticing that he was very well equipped so I asked for his name. He told me, turned and disappeared. I was sort of hoping that find him downstairs but he had vanished along with what remained of my pride.

because somebody else's money always generates a lot of heat. My habit is always to ask boy up front how much he wants. If he quotes too low, nothing stops me from giving him few satangs more at end of session. If he quotes high I either bargain down or end discussion politely. But I like to settle financial beforehand. Hate money discussion in the room and mercifully it almost never happens but had few cases when guy agreed on compensation and then tried to extract more under some pretext. Death sentence in my eyes. On another hand we should accept that boys have their own calculation what constitutes good or bad deal for them as they know better their circumstances. Thus not always 700 is exploitation and not always, say 4000 , is greed as he may have in his sight even more generous / naive customer.

For one hour massage sessions in shops with minimum tip or no stated minimum, I use 1k as the basic starting point and supplement it upward for very satisfactory service. I use same scale in SK or Silom. I definitely prefer shops with stated minimums because they’ve telling you what is the accepted going rate. its not rocket science.

When discussion about tips, there are two parts of this. One is the quoted rate, and accepted rate by the boy if there is haggling down. Another is anything above quoted or agreed amount after service has beend done. While the former miggt have a general going rate based on location or local/foreigner or twink/hunks etc, the later is totally up to the discretion of the customer. Both parts will be driven by the market forces. The more of the supply available, going rate might be cheaper, and vice versa. The more generous customers willing to pay higher tips than going rate, i firmly believe itll make the service provider work harder for next time, and will keep them around longer in the business too. Furthermore, this will also entice more new comers to come to the scene, as they know the rewards are great. When i see people complaining about lack of boys, newer guys no longer interested working in sex industry etc, maybe its the pittance of a tip they gets is to be blamed. If 1.5k baht is the rate 12 years ago, and people now only want to pay 700, do we expect more guys will want to work for less? On the other spectrum, we now also have those instafamous, influencer, onlyfans creator etc who charges quite high rate to hire them, and for me, that is also totally understandable. Do i think higher rate equals better quality service? In my narrow personal experience, yes, especially on subsequent meets. Will higher rate change my decision to hire them again? Yes. If its too expensive even for me, i wont be taking him as many times id want. For example, i couldve taken him 4 times in a trip if he charges 1k less, but only take him 3 times. Again, i agree that tips should go hand in hand with inflation and it is what will keep replenish new guys on the scene. If i know anyone who overpay, i should thank them for the incentive they gives to keep guys who gives great services to maintain in the industry so i can enjoy the guy too in the future hehe.

reasons may be many : commission hotel pays to website , different type of room offered, even if of the same kind i.e Agoda offers 'standard;' room with view of pool or the street while Trip may offer the same 'standard' room with cheerful view of garbage containers or wall 2m from the window. Rooms may be on different floor , one site made 2 dozen bookings for hotel since yesterday while other site did not have any luck etc. I think reason why it happens is not that relevant but it pays to know that such differences exist and we can play it to our advantage securing most economical deal. Sometimes one site doesn't offer rooms in given hotel but they may be available on other site. ( my case in Sukhotai last January). Also it pays to check more than once what prices are being offered and if cheaper you can cancel previous deal (if you have that option) and book the same again for say , 15 $ less.

I never cease to be amazed how much money people carry with while about the town and keep it in the bag. One wonders if still there's room in the bag for condom and KY with all those banknotes. I know very well travelled couple whose bag was snatched by thief on motorbike in Phnom Penh and not only they had all money in that bag but also all documents. Yes, for both of them in one bag ! many times in bars I saw customer pulling thick wad of banknotes or fat wallet, just to pull 20 baht tip for boy or waiter from it. Whom they are trying to impress ?

floridarob already commented on it. Nothing wrong in being on generous side, I'm of the same religion but 1000 baht for 1 hr massage session is acceptable not only in Pattaya but also in most shops and by most boys in Saphan Kwai area of Bangkok. In May I had Grindr guy Long Time and all he wanted was 1500 , he even asked "is 1500 too much for you ? " Example of cheap, although not necessarily bastard , is Olddaddy who confessed above to offering 700.

good illustration of what I said above, in my 11 +years on the forum I don't recall anybody reporting 4-5 orgasms

I am very happy that you liked our Pattaya cliff sightseeing restaurant tour. So many of our forum members who come to visit Pattaya tend to only stay in the gay ghetto areas and do not venture out to see the BEST of Pattaya, like: These many cliff restaurants (Sky Gallery, Chocolate Factory, The Forest, 3 Mermaids, Oxygen) that sit directly above Cosy Beach in Prathamnak hill with stunning sunset views of the sunset behind nearby Koh Larn island, Koh Larn island, Na Jomtien - with the wonderful restaurants (Bacco Beach, Cave Beach Club) that literally sit on the beach sand. More info here https://guides.traveldailymedia.com/najomtien Big Buddha hill which includes the Phra Tamnak Mountain Viewpoint with a stunning view of Pattaya harbor from above https://www.tourismthailand.org/Attraction/phra-tamnak-mountain-viewpoint The nearby City Coffee Pattaya with amazing views of the Pattaya harbor with the nearby declining steps onto the giant Pattaya sign that adorns the harbor. I tease my local Thai friends that this giant sign is like the Hollywood sign back in the USA. https://www.facebook.com/p/City-Coffee-Pattaya-100070351723813/ https://www.instagram.com/explore/locations/280636152/pattaya-city-sign-viewpoint/ Yes @emiel1981, you have been illuminated by this fact. Grindr in Pattaya only shows a smaller limited number of the available guys where I estimate that Hornet has double the number of available guy profiles in Pattaya than Grindr does. Furthermore, the Grindr feed is cluttered with all of the ladyboy profiles. and after @emiel1981 told me that he had a pleasant experience with this new guy (name is Joy), then I had to have him on the next day and I can only reiterate what our Emiel already wrote in his review about Joy. Joy is so new, he just arrived 5 days prior to Pattaya directly from the Isaan town = Si Sa Ket and when he came to my condo he rode his motorbike and was lost and I had to guide him to my condo. Very fresh and still wet behind the years....

At least it wasn't another client, that would have been awkward 🤣

I like kissing but it's not deal breaker for me and you may be on something. Very early I noticed reluctance to kiss to I developed habit of asking boys if they kiss but AFTER deal was agreed on and sealed. That way they don't need to lie to get a deal. With most guys, repeat business means inhibitions are softening up , I never press the issue but when moment is right I ask again. Very often there's no answer but just a kiss, sometimes shy and short , at other times quite a hot and long one. Some semi-regulars though are sticking to their principles , even if offered say 200 or even 500 extra if they kiss. Usually just a pretext to give them higher tip anyways. Perhaps one of best memories of this year is kiss planted on unsuspecting me by guy who strictly declined it previously on quite a few occasions and all of the sudden changed his mind saying ' this is my New Year gift for you ". Ever since he is quite accommodating , if only because he knows that I Iiked it.

I find the boys nowadays far different from the boys 20 years ago Now it's all business ,nothing personal just business

He is 97 kilometers away...is it really realistic to meet in short order?

Not a Twitter member because of Musk but found this location on French site: 24/2, Soi Sukhumvit 23 Khlong Toei Nuea Watthana Sukhumvit, Bangkok, 10110 https://www.xn--thalande-w2a.fr/REVIEWS-happiness-massage-15644-l.html

Thank you for having the courage to write this @emiel1981 as this is something that BURNS my ass when I see that some people want to underpay our guys - especially after 10 years of static prices. Inflation is REAL and I am sure that many of the visitors here to LOS have received inflation raises in their salaries and/or pensions - so why shouldn't our guys merit an inflation increase after 10 years. After living here in Pattaya for 2 years now as a new retiree, I see first hand how our guys struggle - especially during the low season when the Jomtien Supertown Complex is a ghost town and our guys still need to eat, pay the rent, live their lives, etc. We need to remember that in the prior year's low season that there were 6 suicides. This year I have not heard of any new suicides. Let's give our guys a break - they deserve it.

Hahaha because you were stuck with me and I am definitely not a boy. Sorry that you did not win anything. Even my luck changed as my prior 2 Bingo attendances awarded me bottles of whiskey that I gladly donated to my "beautiful racoon eyes" honey 😍

only when you purchase that option. Quite often they quote you two prices ' non-refundable " ( final) and with option to cancel up to certain date. Sometimes that option is only few $ more then non-refundable , sometimes price difference is very substantial (Raya comes to mind).

they may instead start charging for their ETA which is free now. Quite possible increased tourist traffic will make up for lost revenue. Or they may increase airport taxes to compensate

One cute Thai & one cute African

so total 3 or African included in two?

great suggestions, specially Big Buddha Hill and Koh Larn but many can't care less about food while in Pattaya while more meaty type of spending time is available in Pattaya

but at least I stay in the same underwear throughout

My thoughts exactly. I find it to be the most intimate sexual experience. I can't tell you what it does to me when I see 2 bulky bodybuilders kissing and fondling each other.

I miss the old Fragata

I'm not into kissing, but like to hom.... whenever I initiate this on a guy, they've all lit up that I know about it and it seems to excite them as well

only if we could attach a monitor to the testicles of these miraculous forum members that manage to have 4 to 5 orgasms per day - then we would know if their trip reports are "exaggerations" hahahaha

Slut! But I would have done the same! Lol

TRIP REPORT: MORE DAYS IN PATTAYA The days in Pattaya have been very relaxed. Just what I need before I go on a solo sightseeing trip in China. During daytime at the beach. Reading, listening podcasts, maybe take a short nap. Late afternoon hours are for chilling in hotelroom. Sometimes enjoying a massage. Out for dinner and after some drinks. One of the dinners was in 3Mermaids restaurant on top of the Pattaya cliffs. Beautifully views and very nice of you can sit in one of the "birdsnests" overlooking the restaurant and sea. Pre-booking these seats is recommended, but we were lucky there was still a nest available when we turned up unannounced. Thanks to @bkkmfj2648 and his "local friend" for taking me there. Depending on what you choose, food can be a bit pricey. But you also pay for "the experience". The restaurant is located in Phra Tamnak and there are a few popular restaurants with also great views next to each other. Below picture of Forest restaurant. If you're staying in pattaya I do recommend using the Hornet app besides Grindr. Spent a few bucks on 1 month paid membership and much more twinks show up on Hornet than in Grindr. Worth it. At foxy massage there was a new boy. Arrived in Pattaya 5 days ago but already got recommendations about him. So off course needed to try the new boy out. The 500baht fee for massage place was fixed. But the "tip" for the boy himself was according to him completely up to me. I made sure and gave him reasonable rate of 2000baht but probably new boy needs to learn he has to come up with a minimum tip amount himself during chatting. Before he falls in the hands of a cheap basterd who will maybe only give him 1000baht after his services... Very friendly and sweet guy. But English skills very bad. Even simple sentences needed the translation app before he could understand. His massage was nice. Relaxing, sensual. Not hard. And for extra service he really likes to look for what you enjoy to make sure you like what he is doing. When he took a shower afterwards I already thought he was taking long time in bathroom. But found out he made some new pictures for his grindr profile in my bathroom... See one of these pics below. By the way this guy likes making pictures of himself. He is changing his profile pics more often than @vinapu is switching boys when visiting Thailand... 😜🤣 Massageboy smelled familiar when he came out of the bathroom. He had put on some of my perfume, which I didn't mind.

Given the spicy diet, I’m always surprised how few instances of bad breath I encounter. Chalk it up to good oral hygiene. The kiss is the most intimate of sexual expression. When it happens it delights me.

I fully agree - in my opinion, the M2M show is the BEST cabaret show in the Jomtien Supertown Complex. But the BEST in all of Pattaya, in my opinion, is the one at Tiffany's as I reported here:

at the suggestion of @emiel1981 I also had him. He is a fun young guy from Tampa, Florida. as I already posted in the other thread = This "straight" guy fits into one of Dr. Joe Kort's categories for straight guys who like anal stimulation and I would also add for who are "cashsexual". He has a great 6-pack and an average cut cock - which I tried to make orgasm - but no way - as he got hard for a while and then it petered (pun intended) out and became soft. So, then I let him finish me off with an ok edging - not the best but not the worst. As Emiel wrote, his massage was average. What is amazing is that his price is very reasonable for 2.000 baht because normally in Pattaya the foreigners usually start with prices that are minimum of 3.000 baht and up to 5.000 baht. The "straight" Russians that I play with require 3.000 and some of the hot BIG dick African's that pass through cost around 4.000 baht - but they are usually all pure muscle with humungous cut cocks.

How a massage turns out can sometimes owe it origin to the pre-massage shower. When I arrived at Phetboy last Saturday, the guy I picked happened to be in shop. He was new and from Myanmar with just about no English save yes and now. But we quickly became acquainted in the few minutes under the shower head and that set the tone for the next 55 minutes. He’s now on my top three list from that shop. I love international relations. 🙂

Stopped by the new bar shortly after 9p.m. I chose a table (Semicircular banquet type that can sit four comfortably). the waiter (one of three) gave me a menu that offered a good selection of beers and I selected an Asahi (150, same as local brew prices). When he put by bill in cup he also deliver small bowl of chips. There were two customers at bar and four young Asian guys at another table. it wasn’t long before waiter started conversation with usual questions. Then asked me if he could sit with me, confirming suspicion that this was indeed a host bar. I declined tbh because I knew I wasn’t interested and was there on an information gathering mission. The other waiters also stopped by but I was busy on my phone. There was local pop music on sound system, not at an obnoxious level that would inhibit conversation but still a bit annoying to old man like myself. The manager who was teaching bartenders to use register is a farang. And on the subject of bartenders, there are two and I believe that’s where the talent is. That’s where I’d sit on any future visit.

Here is an overview of the prices for online GPs/masseurs in Rio based on the ones that I contacted (using a Brazilian WhatsApp number and writing in Portuguese) while in Rio last month: 150, 200, 200, 250, 250, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 300, 350, 350, 350, 350, 350, 400, 450, 500, 600. Sources were GCL, Grindr, VL and Skokka. I only met with a few of those GPs.

TRIP REPORT SUNDAY IN PATTAYA No rain this afternoon. Yesterday it was raining almost all day and I was getting so bored. But today it looks fine! So after lunch it was time to relax at the beach. Off course in the "gay area", just after the public toilets. The good thing about being in holiday: not having to do anything. Before I knew it, it was time already to head back to the Agate hotel for shower and get ready for evening-program. First dinner at Dick's Cafe and after some drinks at Meeting Point bar. From there you can easily check out the massage boys sitting in front of Foxy Smile, Pattaya #1 Massage and even Soda Massage. And decide on your favorite boy whike enjoying a drink and the friendliness of the bar staff and the white cat "Latte". The staff of Meeting Point are in close contact with the massage boys at Foxy and Pattaya #1, so if there is any boy there you like the bar staff is happy to go to your boy of choice and invite him to sit with you for a drink before you decide on a massage. I decided to go check out the show at M2M, which was very entertaining. The cabaret boys are eyecandy, the ladyboys know how to put on a show. And lipsyncing is in most of the act good and much better than most places in Thailand. The show starts at 22h30 and lasts till after midnight. I did had my eyes on one of the massage guys at Foxy Smile, but that place was already closed when I passed it after the M2M show. So I went to the app. Found a hot Cambodian guy with the exact amount of musle I like, working at Toyboy but living in Jomtien complex. He was off and sitting in a bar drinking. Was was willing to join me in my hotel room for 1500baht, saving me the off fee of when I would have picked him up from Toyboy. So my night did have a happy end after all...

GBeat posted these three pics today, including new Myanmar guy (far left) ============ Phoenix Spa (Inthamara 25) is offering promotion rate for four, one hour session, for baht 1199. ============ One Spa is offering following promotions: — three, one hour sessions for baht 1,089 — five, one hour VIP room sessions for bht 1,989 — Couples massage, one hour for baht 500 (all above plus tips to masseurs) —

it's called sacrificial reporting Thank you for great report again. Yes , Complex is twink heaven but if you stroll, checking expositions carefully more muscly or even outright handsome guy may be found sitting here or there

More! More! More! I think Harris thrives in these adversarial interviews. At least when they are tethered to reality, as anything Bret Baier says actually is. As opposed to a Tucker Carlson interview where we are led to believe most people actually do eat cats and dogs. It was kind of her biggest weaknesses, all real. I think she did great. The prosecutor in her came out. She fought, and I think she won. She looked rough, and not like a UN diplomat. I found that 60 Minutes interview particularly awful. Some of it was the editing, no doubt. But both characters in that interview seemed like Ai inventions who were designed to speak UN, not English. This Fox News thing was about two real and smart people fighting it out. Whether it wins her the votes of Fox News voters or not, it makes her look smart and tough to swing voters. No pablum. What she communicated to me is that I want solutions to real problems, like actual real voters do.

TRIP REPORT DAY 4 As today is alcohol ban due to Buddhist holiday, the clubs and bars will be closed tonight. So i figured out this was a good day to meet up with my regular. A guy not working in a bar or club, but who I've met via Grindr some Bangkok visits ago. I wrote about him in earlier trip reports; see link if you want to know more "details", see quote below. I lost contact with him on Grindr. He doesn't share his line or WhatsApp as he wants his "side business" strictly seperate from his private life. When I was back in Bangkok I hoped to see his profile pop up again. Yesterday I was lucky. Fun fact: I remembered his profile pictures was close up of his ass with black underwear. First night I was in Bangkok I directly thought I've spotted him again. But it seemed to be somebody with a similar profile picture. I will post both, so you will understand my confusion. First one is not my regular, 2nd picture is his profile. See how they would look like each other in the grindr grid? After that disappointment of that first profile wasn't him, I was so happy to see the real regular pop up yesterday. Today in afternoon he visited me in the hotel. Like the other times I had a good massage and fireworks after. He was still that good as I remembered. Nice. After shower to wash off the massage oil it was time to head out for dinner. Passing by soi4 where indeed, except for G's restaurant, everything was dark and closed. See picture. During dinner I was thinking about what to do tonight. Bars closed. Already had massage and sex 1hr ago... During dinner I got grindr message from Italian guy who arrived in Bangkok today and was looking for someone to have a chat with. He was actually looking for somebody to explore Bangkok with and also go to bars and clubs together. Told him I'm leaving for Pattaya the next day but could give him some insider information and tips. He invited me to come have a drink with him, sending me picture of him sitting with a beer. What? It's alcohol-ban-day... Where is he? So I ended up chatting the rest of the evening with him, drinking alcoholic drinks, on the first floor of a bar/restaurant. Out of sight from the public and the men in brown. After all, it's Bangkok... Full of secrets en surprises everywhere. Lol

Mr. Baseball. He loves to choke his bottoms while in the missionary position. It's so hot.