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On Tuesday I just did some more tourist activities and went to arena Massage and had another great massage with the guy from before. His massage is almost trained. He is more focused on the clinical and less on the erotic aspect until you flip over. I don’t mind this as I get a good massage, but would be nice if he blends Wednesday I slept in finally, I couldn’t decide what I wanted to do today. I was thinking of going to Jodds fair later in the afternoon, I decided to head out for some shopping. After shopping I returned to my hotel around 4-5 I saw that traffic was brutal so the 20 minute journey to jodds was gonna take over an hour so I decided against. I ended up on Grindr and talked to a guy we Decided to meet up in the hotel sauna where we fooled around for a bit. I showered then headed up to the pool. Furama has some nice views of the city at night. I was gonna stay in again but decided to venture out to the bars. this time I walked past dreamboys the promoters outside did ask me to come in, it was early so I said I would come back. I walked up the alley to the next one and past by banana room the promoters called out to Me. I said too early for show I will come back. However he told me show already started it was just last 9:30 when first show starts. He asked me if I wanted to just take a look, something the other bars didn’t, I peaked then decided why not. Drinks here are only 360 baht. Later I also enquired about boy drinks they are 300. So much cheaper than the other bars. When I entered there was only about 8 other guys watching the show, mostly all Asian tourists I sat in the back right by the door. The show consisted mainly of drag queens/lady boys? They lip synced and danced, there was 7 different ones in total. They had a shower show with two guys and then a cock parade show with 5 guys. While I do like drag shows there was not enough performances featuring the boys. The show ended around 10:40 which was quite long. During the show lots of people peaked inside but didn’t stay. By the end of the show there was around 12-13 customers, The boys went into stage. Only around 8 boys in total. They are mostly shirtless wearing black pants. The boys here are less twinky than the other bars I attended. They are attractive. However only one guy caught my attention but he seemed uninterested in being on stage, no one wants a dead fish. The atmosphere is good here. You are far enough away from the stage to observe but not feel like you are on top of the guys. The stage is well lit but the customer seating area is not bright. I decided to pay my fee. I tipped the lady boy who answered my questions and thanked her for her time and left. i decided to head back to dreamboys and check it out. Outside the promoters called out to me. I said what time is next show and they told me now, now. I went inside and was led to a seat on the front but asked to change to the upper seat on the side. Dreamboys was packed with customers I say a good 20-25 90% Asian tourists and 10% Caucasian. The show was some erotic dancing with the boys. A drag queen came on next. After there was a cock show, some sucking and simulated sex. A lot more variety than banana room. I didn’t check price but I believe drink here was 500 baht, boy drink was 400. After the show boys went on stage, they had a lot. Over 20. They are dressed in skimpy white shirts some wearing white tank tops but most shirtless. One guy number 77 had huge bulge in his shorts. The papasan came over to me to ask which I liked. I told them I still deciding and I felt no pressure just assistance. I saw another guy looking at me and he was cute. next show started and I forgot the numbes of the boys I was interested in. I watched show which was a bit different, however when the boys are “backup dancing” they all do this slow motion running in place move which looks a bit awkward . When the show was over boys went back on stage I narrowed down the numbers to two. I asked one of the papasans if he between the two numbers he knew which one spoke better English, he told me so I picked that boy to buy drink, he came over asked me the same questions “where you from” “how long you here” I asked him his position. He told me “I gay, I do everything” it’s funny here gay means top and bottom or just bottom. Straight is just top. We discussed his off fee he told me rate for short time and long time. I was thinking because he was a little more expensive than boys I brought back from fresh boys however I gave them extra which equaled this amount, while I was thinking he asked me “I go get dressed?” I said sure, we took taxi back to hotel, which he said he has been to many times. Back in the room he showered while I got the room ready. Then I showered. We had fun. He was just as engaged as I was and wanted to ensure I was having good time as well. after we showered together and sat on couch to talk a bit which was nice, he told me he has been working at Dreamboys since Covid restrictions ended, I saw a lot of people asking if Dreamboys where Thai only so I asked him, he told me mostly Thai but now they are hiring more from different countries and have a few already. He traded his WhatsApp asked me if I wanted to do anything in afternoon before clubs open to message him. He showed me some pictures of other boys in the club who he likes to work with, was a fun experience, it was raining so I tipped him some extra so he could take taxi. He left. Later I ordered some food and went downstairs to get it where I saw him still sitting in lobby. I asked him if everything is alright he told me he is waiting for rain to stop because he has motorbike. I asked if he wanted to come upstairs and wait and share some food but he said he is fine and wants to wait. I wished him goodnight. dreamboys was one of the bigger clubs I’ve been to. They have two entrances and a huge stage. I would definitely return. not sure if I will visit moonlight, I don’t know if I like the idea of the higher off fees. I may visit banana room again on the weekend hopefully there will be more guys on stage.

good idea, you rewarded his for an impressive street performance. In unsophisticated attempt of scam I was once approached on 2nd Road in Pattaya by farang claiming he is hungry , has no money because girl he took from stole all his money. I was equally straightforward and told him ' I'm chasing boys , you are making wrong choices" or something to this effect. To which his response was equally sophisticated " fuck you fucking fag ". Mine was poetic as well " but my money is not stolen"

When approached by anyone with a yarn, I always glance at their feet. Truly down and out guys aren't wearing new Nikes.

Good new excuse....no one has been buying that I'm "Bulking" up for the gym 😁

Shame the law didn't say that it had to be worn on underwear!

of course you will, you don't want to rot in hell for missing it. As spoon said, off fee is 500, only for models is 1000 and you will clearly know who is who as models have their separate parade on the stage. And who knows, you may even say to yourself " hell with extra 500 , lets off that or this guy. Be warned though, models expect and likely get higher tips than floor boys but floor boys are aplenty and quite a few are equally attractive as model stable seems to be in need of update.

Why resort to laser pointers, or causing embarrassment to customers, as @emiel1981 experienced? What's wrong with a low-tech solution like wearing numbers? Why dispense with it?

Probably not. They are available everywhere now and have become a part of life here. You can see them lined up on shelves in pharmacies and ask the Don Quijote stores. Apparently, they sell 13,000 a day in Japan So far, they've sold over 140 million worldwide. I'm tempted to try one to see what all the fuss is about. Japan has always had wanking toys - some better than others. As students we tried quite a few - we weren't old enough to enter the sex shops but one of our friends had an older brother who bought them for us. We all agreed that nothing beats your hand.

Ok so I’ve been asked to report back on the one if I visit, however I thought I would report on what I did so far, and since I’m now resting after a long day sight seeing i have some time. This will include tourist activities so I’m sorry if that doesn’t interest you but the reports that included those helped me a lot as well. background on me. I am very late 30’s from North America. I have really only travelled in North America (Canada/USA/Mexico) before with Mexico being one of my favourite destinations (maybe now to be superseded by Thailand ) I arrived last Monday, I got to my hotel, Furama Silom. I choose this hotel based on many, many reviews I have read on this forum. I originally booked a different hotel closer to the bars but I realized it didn’t have a pool so I cancelled and book Directly with Furama for a great deal. So far there has been no issues with bringing back guests. I have the lounge access and I was even able to bring my tour guide to refresh after our tour and get some more information about the city before our time was up. Monday night I decided to go for a walk, I walked by the nine boys massage place and they asked if I wanted massage I said sure, so far this was the best room as it had a bed with a head cradle. I prefer this to just a pillow. The massage was not very good though. After we turned over he asked if I wanted happy for 1000 baht, my first night so I agreed, then he asked another 500 to take his clothes off.. I said sure but nothing happened besides hj. I showered alone at the end.. likely won’t revisit. Tuesday early morning I was browsing Grindr and I chatted with a guy who later told me he was a MB this didn’t bother me, I asked for rates and we agreed to massage+fun. He arrived. I had a decent massage and the fun was great. We had a bit of conversation, showered together then he left. I had a tour booked with Mac from siamroads. There has been some controversy on this forum regarding the owner, however Mac has had rave reviews so I didn’t let that stop me booking him. He was a bit difficult to get a hold of because his phone had broke. However we messaged by email. On the morning it downpoured and Mac got stuck but he messaged me to let me know he was running late, which was fine for me as I was still a bit tired, he arrived and we set out on the tour we planned. He showed me how to use skytrain, the boat transit, we visited the reclining Buddha, he has great knowledge on Thai culture and history and of the Buddhist religion. We visited south Bangkok to tour some local markets. He showed me the flower market. We also went for lunch and I ordered a lot, he felt bad at the cost but I told him not to worry it’s my first time and I want to experience some new things. It seems like he wants to minimize cost for his clients which is great. The food was delicious btw. On return he showed me the area around my hotel, where I could eat, and some things to see, then we chatted about when Bangkok become the capital etc. I felt like I learned a lot and would definitely recommend him to anyone in the future. i was tired this day so I went to bed early. next day I decided I wanted to goto thong plaza, as well as platinum mall and the markets down there. However first I thought I would try one of the massage shops at Saphan Kwai. I decided on 15m I messaged them on line and asked for more information on three guys, I chose one and was on my way, I decided to use taxi as I was still only comfortable going short distances with skytrain. I arrived and the guy I chose was waiting, his picture on line was likely from when he was much younger, I paid the fee he showed me to the massage room. Massage was not that great, not sure if I should expert more, the fun after was not great as well. He had difficulty getting up. Then when he did, it was over just as fast, I definitely did not enjoy this experience and after showing left unhappy, I likely will not return. I did some shopping at the two malls I mentioned, it started to rain so I got myself a manicure to wait it out then I headed back to my hotel. Furama is very close to arena massage now I was a bit nervous going here as I didn’t know what to expect with all the guys lining up looking at you expecting you to choose one leaving everyone else disappointed. However I did pick one. I did get upsold for the vip room, I was worried if this place was so old what would I get with a regular room. I liked that the tip is laid out in advance and it seems like everyone knows what they are there for. VIP room had queen sized mattress, water, private shower stall. I only chose 60 minute massage, I felt like the guy did a great job he hit everywhere I was expecting. Had fun after massage, was not rushed and we showered together. Unfortunately I forgot his name. I returned to my hotel to rest. next day I did safari world, I’ve never did anything like this before and just wanted to experience it. I really enjoyed it. I doubt the shows would be approved by peta but I had fun, I also did some of the extras like feeding tigers, hippos and took some pictures with the animals. I got back late I really didn’t want to leave my hotel room. So I hopped on Grindr and hired a guy off there, massage was more mechanical nothing really to it. However he was an expert at the fun part. After we showered together I went to bed exhausted from a long day. next day I did some more sight seeing. I went to centralworld, I walked around the city a bit to see some of the shops and sights. I took the skytrain back and since it was on the way I stopped at arena massage again. This time I decided to go for longer time, 90 minutes, the boy I was with last time was there again and seemed excited to see me, I felt bad cause I wanted to try something new. This was what I was afraid of with these lineups. I choose a guy but then quickly the papasan said nonono he can’t he has booking. I think he should have had him sit out the lineup at the beginning. So once again I choose. A different guy.this guy was very good massage was excellent, since I did 90 minutes I believe he had more time to spend massaging, he was much better than the first guy, we had a lot of fun, his name was Chai and I would recommend him. We talked a little bit after we showered and he told me I should try four hands next time and gave some explicit gestures on what we could do. The thought crossed my mind but on the advise from here have having first guy you pick find the second guy who they can work with.. what if you don’t like second guy.. then have to turn down. next day I hung around the pool a bit. I took water taxi/shuttle to icon Siam. Was only 10 baht. When I got back I decided I would venture out to the patpong night market area and maybe goto one of the bars, I had an idea on what to expect based on this forum but was still nervous. I decided to walk down as google maps said it was only 15 minutes I walked through the night market then the alley with some of the bars, the promoters are trying to get you inside. I did not find them to be aggressive or overbearing a simple no thanks, and they where onto the next guy, I walked the entire alley discovering this alley contained both gay and straight bars, I walked back down not sure where to go however fresh boys show was going to start in 15 minutes at 10:30 so I decided on that, this was Saturday night. They tried to seat me front row in the middle. I asked to sit in the back which wasn’t a problem. I arrived 10;15 pm there was about 7-8 other guys when I got there, however before the show started the room started to fill up. Mostly Chinese, Indian tourists. Only one other white guy besides myself, 2-3 more joins later in the evening, on stage was 15-20 guys wearing no shirts and white fresh boys shorts. When the light hits right you can see their white briefs underneath, they stood on stage changing position every few seconds. They were mostly younger with a couple older guys. When the show started most of the boys left to go outside, some went to the back to get ready to perform, while some sat down on the couch by the stage busy on their cellphones. The show wasn’t bad, they had a couple drag queens perform. One drag queen performed oral on two of the guys. They had a shower show where they soaped up each other and simulated penetration with actual oral. Then they had the cock show where the guys came out and banged their cocks against a pole after this they came into the audience, the mamasan told everyone “you can touch, you can suck” the guy who I was eying came over with his cock out, I played with it a little and tipped him 100 baht, once the guys saw I tipped they all started to come to me. Then I had ended tipping four of them. After the show the guys got back on stage. i asked the mamasan if the guy I was interested spoke any English. She said his English was very bad, so I asked if I could buy him a drink. She called out his number and he came out, had had been smiling at me all night, when he sat down he asked me the basic questions mentioned on this forum, where are you from? How long you visit? Etc. I cuddled with him a bit and asked him some questions like his position, has it been busy. Etc his English was more than adequate translator app not needed, I asked him his rate he told him 2500 I probably could have haggled. However i didn’t want to bother. I agreed. I asked him if he had to wait until after last show, cause he was part of the cock show, he said yes, however he misunderstood me cause a minute later he asked if I wanted to go now and I said yes. He called mamasan over to collect fees, while he went to get changed, he was from Cambodia. I said I wanted to take taxi as I didn’t feel like walking back. We got back to my hotel room, not an eye batted that I was brining someone back, he took a shower. We had some fun, a lot of fun. He was well equipped and was actually engaged and seemed to be enjoying himself as well, which is a big turn on for me, after we took a shower together, this is when I asked him if he had any friends in the club that he did threesomes with. He said he did. I told him if I was at the bar tomorrow maybe I would be interested, I laid the fee, with a little extra, then he left for the night. the next day, Sunday I was very tired from the night before as I woke up very early, I did some more sight seeing, I got back to my hotel room around 5 pm and was tired I ended up napping until 8. When I woke up I was deciding whether or not I wanted to goto the bars, I decided I should. I had a shower then headed out. This time I walked the alley again, then back out, to another small dead end alley with banana room. I didn’t go in looked interesting. I walked bit further around the block and I found moonlight and then I noticed the other bars under fresh boys. Goodboys. The promoters of these bars seemed less interested in calling you in. When I was in the alley with moonlight no one called over to me, I was wearing black shorts and a black tshirt maybe I wasn’t dressed well enough? Same for dream boys not a single promoter asked me to come inside, I was getting warm and decided to go into a bar to cooldown from the heat. I thought I saw a bar where the show started at 9:45 but I couldn’t find that board tonight, maybe only Saturday? So I ended up going to hot male. This place felt smaller than fresh boys. Again there was mostly only Asian tourists and a few Indian tourists as well, the boys where all on stage however this time they just stood there, no movement to change position. They smiled at you, grabbed their crotches, they were wearing white tank tops with red long pants, some shirtless. A couple guys interested me,but they didn’t seem interested in me, so why bother? Another white guy came in. He bought a couple bottles they seemed to know him there. 5-8 of the guys went to join him and enjoy drinks. I felt like the room was too brightly lit. I preferred the dark seats of fresh boys. the show started, it consisted of some strip dancing, cock shows, then big cock show, one guy had a very large cock and he stayed hard without using their makeshift cock rings, they did come out with weird costumes for this, I wasn’t interested in anyone so when they came around for tips I just said no thanks, the show ended I paid my tab and left, then I decided to head over to fresh boys. at fresh boys they where just finishing the show with the cock parade where they use their cocks to hit the pole. I sat down. After the guy from the night before saw me he waved to me and smiled, then after he out his shirts back on for the lineup he came over to me to say hi, I tipped him 100 and he rejoined the lineup. His buddy was standing next to him in the lineup and pointing to the both of them trying to get me to pick both, I was unsure, his buddy was trying very hard, even playing with the guys cock through his shorts on stage. It was getting late and I didn’t really want to make the guy I was interested wait longer so I asked one of the waiters to have him come sit with me and I will buy drink, I asked is he your friend who does threesome he said yes but he told me another number who fucks better. I said ok let’s see. The other one came around on stage however I wasn’t interested in him even tho he definitely was trying to attract my attention, I told my guy I’m not really interested. He asked who I liked, I told him I liked him the best, he was happy and asked if I was gonna take him tonight, I said yes. I didn’t want to put the guys on stage through anymore torture so I asked to pay bill while he changed. we took Tuktuk back to hotel, I had great time he was even better second time, usually I find that’s not the case, he really worked hard to ensure I was satisfied. We later in bed after finishing and talked a bit, I asked him maybe you have verse guy I can watch first then we can all play. He said he did have friend even better he thinks I will like. I said maybe next time I go I can see. He told me about some sights I should visit. I know this is transactional but I felt like he actually was happy to be with me and this matters the most to me. i will definitely off him again.. maybe with a friend… who knows. Tonight I will try to find the one bar and see how that is. I may end up going to good boys tonight as well. Depending oh one thing I should mention at fresh boys and hotmale both give you back 50 baht in your change as coins, likely so you will leave that as a tip, which they got me and I did. I will add to this post tomorrow.

I like the "no Photo" sign 😉

From Pattaya Mail By Barry Kenyon Visa agencies in tourist-orientated cities throughout Thailand are offering to help Destination Thailand Visa hopefuls cut the pain out of the bureaucracy when dealing with overseas embassies. DTV cannot be granted to foreigners present in Thailand but must leave the country to lodge an application. Since the introduction of DTV last July, some foreigners have demonstrated on social media that Thai diplomatic posts do not have uniform documentary requirements. Some aspirants say they have been refused, others delayed or told to resubmit. The areas of ambiguity include what exactly counts as a cash bond, the precise evidence for a digital nomad working for overseas clients and the detailed proof about being a soft-power applicant. What the Thai visa agencies, widely advertised on Facebook in particular, are offering is a visa run to a neighboring country and assistance in preparing the specific documentation tailored to that Thai embassy. Other services cover air or road transport to the destination, hotel accommodation (usually on a bed and breakfast only basis) and a pickup facility at the Thai diplomatic post. The inclusive costs vary company-by-company but are generally in the 75,000 baht to 150,000 baht range (from US$ 2,400), dependent on the level of assistance given. Most agencies require applicants to fill in a pre- application form to check DTV eligibility which isn’t usually a problem as the soft power categories are non-specific on detail. Applicants who have trouble proving the cash or income bond requirement may be offered a third-party guarantee by the host company. https://www.pattayamail.com/news/visa-companies-offer-trouble-free-dtv-applications-474522

Visited on Weds from 5pm until 7pm. Very busy indeed with a great selection of hot, sexy guys. Some can be fairly pushy but the majority are great and relaxed. Quite a few guys from South America. Grab a drink in the bar area and guys will come up to you to chat. Facilities all working perfectly. Cost still E50 for short time session but guys open to negotiation for longer time or fulfilling other kinks! Give it a go. Recommended.

Sometimes it can be interesting. I was approached, years ago, near Grand Central Station in NY. Fairly well dressed guy, with English accent. As I am English, he may have heard me speak. I got a very well crafted tale of woe, I am a doctor, lost my wallet, etc. He would give me no of hospital to ring etc. I was sure it was a scam, but very impressive. We talked for 10 mins. Eventually, I said that I did not believe him, but I would give him $10, as I thought his performance was so good. He went away happy!

With targets this easy, maybe we won't have to worry about pickpockets in the future? Why bother pickpocketing when you can just ask and have people show you their money?

For some reason this reminded me of an embarrassing moment I once had in Tawan bar. When I was leaving the bar and already outside, one of the staff asked me if there was no boy inside I liked. I described one boy that I might be interested in, and this staffmember told me he knew who I was talking about and convinced me to go back inside so he could "match" me to him. I sat down, and moments later one of the Tawan boys showed up. But... This was not the boy I was talking about at all. It was hard to find an exit out of this situation without being painful or awkward for me or the boy...

Post debate Harris-Walz ad on the GOP election denial

Ah, Dreaded Ned. Nostalgia rules!

555 yes the bars are all heart.

but we had long forgotten DreadedNed website then

I was approached by another foreigner at Sala Daeng BTS early one morning (many years ago now), no idea why he singled me out but he had that scammer look about him (he had a heated phone conversation that everyone could clearly hear just prior) so as he approached I just told him to go away and that I wasn't interested. Prick did follow me for a while before thankfully losing interest or finally waking up to the fact that I wasn't interested in him or his trouble. In Manila they used to have immigration police impersonators cruising the streets in Ermita looking for foreigners to extort money from. They would ask to see your passport and visa then try to bullshit and say it wasn't in order and you would have to pay some ridiculous fine at the immigration office or pay a "not so big on the spot fine", amazed at just how many fell for it too.

Go to another sub section in this forum, it is full of brazil trip reports

Any provider anywhere will "accept" oral only. I guess most of them would charge the same, bcs the pay is 4 their time.

The loss of waiters slows down the serving of drinks and collection of bin tabs. Whereas the number of waiters is limited to perhaps 6-8, there can be three dozen or more boys on stage. Lose 10 or so of them to offs doesn't prevent putting on a show. Weekends are the busiest periods so management wants to discourage customers from offing waiters. They've been known to refuse waiter offs if their absence would impinge on keeping things running smoothly. If you want to spend time with a waiter, you can also arrange to meet him off the clock (post work or before work).

The simple answer: I don't know anymore than you might. I am far removed from being a "young Asian visitor" (how I wish 🤪 I'm one). Your observation of the crowd in BoyzBoyzBoyz is pertinent, and seems to indicate a desire for fun and entertainment (true of all young people anywhere, I'd imagine) - neither of which concept, as you yourself have pointed out, has yet crossed the minds of Jomtien bar owners. There is likely to be another dimension: the aesthetic. What is aesthetically pleasing to Western eyes may not be the same to other cultures' eyes. And other dimensions, such as music. Have you noticed that on Walking Street of Pattaya, the bars catering to the Indian visitor almost always play Indian pop? If, as a thought experiment, the Jomtien bars changed to play music like this: I think we can expect lots of farangs complaining and not returning despite the music (objectively speaking) being perfectly listenable and suitable for a cafe or bar. For 2 likely reasons: the songs are not situated within their cultural context - they don't have memory associations of earlier times when the songs meant something to them emotionally; also playing songs of a different culture is seen as signalling valency or bias for that culture, counter to the cutlure that one identifies with. That said... But why should Asian culture or Asian languages be alien to people of whiter skin? Can we imagine a day when Chinese is the most common second language for people around the world, such that when people of two different countries meet (e.g. Uzbekistan and Madagascar) they automatically reach for Chinese to cross-communicate? Is it unimaginable that one day, White people sitting in bars would find music like above perfectly normal? Listen to how fluent this guy is:

From The Nation One of the rarest and strangest-looking plants in Thailand is about to poke its head above the soil for its annual appearance in a remote forest on the eastern border with Myanmar. The Thismia thaithongiana was discovered growing on the slopes of Doi Hua Mot, Umphang Wildlife Sanctuary, Tak Province in 2018. Tourists and botanists are now scouring the sanctuary’s forest floor to catch sight of this bizarre owl-shaped plant, which glows green and goes by the Thai name of Phisawong Thaithong or Phisawong Owl’s Eye. Continues with photos https://www.nationthailand.com/blogs/life/travel/40041991

I think one of the most iffy things you can do is leave a review about a bar or massage shop on your Google account. Those never go away.

That would work!

Regarding giving a tip to the boy or buying him a drink, the owner of Winner Bar in Sunee Plaza put it this way, "the tip helps the boy, the drink helps the bar". So best to buy the boy at least one drink plus give him a tip; everybody is happy!🤑 I am paraphrasing the owner's comments.

or someone else's hand who knows how to make you a slow erotic edging handjob 🤪

So everybody would be pointing his camera to the stage or elsewhere to scan barcodes, but secretely taking pictures? I dont like this idea. This makes me really shy! Would it even work in a dimly lit room to scan barcodes? Or if the boy is half hidden in second row? How would you in the future report "I offed Nr. 9", would you say "I offed barcode nr. 9-234234--535524546--62626266"? I dont think so. If pushy mamasans are the problem, it would be the owners task to adress this problem. If the owner doesnt care and the mamasans are the real bosses, they wouldnt introduce barcodes to bypass themselves anyway. The website needs constant updating, we know how well this works ... Do you really want to log in the wifi of the bar ... many dont like this for security reasons. To sum it up, i think a simple thing becomes just more complicated in the end. The real issue is that pushy/unfriendly mamasans can keep customers away from the bar and I wonder why owners dont care.

oopsy, my intention was never to lift the veil on the privacy of our guys. The use of a technological solution was to be internal to the said bar/club where only you the customer would see your green laser pen (GLP) ID number and the manager/papasan/mammasan would also see the GLP ID number and perhaps the desired guy - but probably not as they are usually accessary free and we would not want them to be distracted from their sexy catwalk and/or show performance. and @omega this solution is even better than the one that I proposed. Almost every time that I have proposed the use of QR codes - there has been forum member pushback - but yet we accept the age old "number tag" system ?? I see that nowadays in our world of AI that already Apple and Samsung are introducing AI rings (NO - not cock rings - yet 🤪) Maybe this would be a better solution than my proposed QR code idea and also to the current "number tag" system ? Thanks @Marc308 for your support on my idea. The intention of my idea was to empower us who are SHY here in this forum. Many times I have accompanied our less SHY and famous forum members to the bar and they have no problems about getting what they want quickly and even sometimes at the protest of the obnoxious mamasans. Unfortunately, I am SHY and I just cannot grow a pair of balls like these other forum members and I proposed this technology solution to help: find a way to overcome my shyness by empowering me with a technology solution, a potential way to bypass and/or minimize the interaction of the obnoxious mamasans, get me closer to the guys that I want so that I can do what humans do best - let us interact with each other in a less stress free way without the involvement of unnecessary intermediaries. I want to sit in the exciting gogo bar/club BUT I want to be left alone to my own devices (pun intended) so that I can use technology to help my SHY personality to get what I want without the intervention of the obnoxious or pushy (Lurch from Moonlight comes to mind) mamasan. Why should we allow the gogo bar/club scene be a stressful situation ?

Oh gosh I rarely disagree with Vinapu and Omega, but hey guys, technology can be our friend! For one, the dating apps freed us from the boring bars and pushy mamasans, oh wow that was a great technological advance. The Line menu of available masseurs was a massive improvement over the old way of "hoping for the best" when going to a massage shop. Whether MFJ's idea of attaching QR codes instead of numbers would work is an open question, but at least you could learn something about the boy by getting some immediate feedback ("name", age, T/B, language proficiencies, size? ...) Technology has made Lazada possible, Bolt possible, ghost kitchen meal delivery possible... Someone clever will surely come up with a better way to breathe new life into the dying go-go bars. If not, the next generation (or current generation!) will put a nail in their coffin for sure. We, the retired and near-retired expats residents/visitors, do not have the financial profile nor the actuarial longevity that the industry needs to thrive.

I love @macaroni21 blog. So witty and wise insights. We should have a separate topic in forum for all of us to comment on his posts!

@macaroni21 - I am curious - what is appealing to young Asian visitors of today ? When I see the transition of BoyzBoyzBoyz (BBB) in Boyztown from being full of westerners of years past (where we ogled at scantly dressed sexy guys on the stage) to now being full of young Asians - these young Asians seem to like: the guys that are overdressed standing on the stage, calling down various guys from the stage to drink with them, watching the show, often getting plastered drunk - I have seen many a young Asian assisted to get into the bathroom or to be helped to go outside. If the guys are offed from BBB then I don't think that it is for sex but more for having companionship at some other club. What are your thoughts?

Olddaddy, I think you may find thus useful in future pursuits of this nature. Of course you may prefer au naturel.

I think you're too optimistic. My guess is that the sign will attract no more than one clueless new visitor per month. From a cost-benefit angle, it's not worth the expense. 22 years ago was a different world. This Gayguides forum didn't exist. Today hardly any westerner would be travelling anywhere without some web search. The likelihood of that rare westerner who didn't do his homework and has no clue where the gay scene is and then somehow ending up on Thappraya Road and stumbling upon the sign is very, very low. Consider too the depressing fact: despite all the social media talk about gay life in Pattaya, high season continues to get lower each year. In short, even if they did a web search and read about Pattaya, they haven't been coming. There are more fundamental ills about the Pattaya scene that no sign can help with. As for the burgeoning numbers of non western visitors to Pattaya they are more likely to be surprised to see such a sign since I believe social media in their languages won't have much about gay Jomtien. But once they see those bars, they will likely write off the place. Asian visitors are younger than the average age of the western visitors to Jomtien Complex. The culture of sitting in a bar nursing a drink, simply doesn't appeal to the younger Asian crowd. So the net gain in terms of customer traffic from the new sign will likely be zero. A better case study may be the Russians. Everytime I am in Pattaya in December and riding a songtaew in the Jomtien, Thappraya area, I almost always find myself riding with Russians on the vehicle. Or if walking inland from Dongtan beach, there are plenty of them taking that route too. Over the years, lots of Russians must have gone past Jomtien Complex on foot or on songtaews. Yet I doubt if you'd see any significant number of Russians in Jomtien bars. Perhaps others can share a better observation. Hoping to gain customers by sheer chance of a passer-by is not the cleverest marketing strategy.

Great report. You doing very well for a newbie. Glad to hear Arena did not disappoint you, they rarely do, if at all. Satisfaction guaranteed there if you ask me. Sorry to hear about Tawan guys chasing you out by being pushy. Sadly , it looks it's how they chose to operate under new management and you not only one being chased away by their antics. It used to be friendliest bar by far. You mentioned you think barkers (promoters) at Moonlight overlooked you because way you were dressed . Highly unlikely though, nothing wrong with black t-shirt and shorts. Give a chance to Banana Club in soi 4 as well as Jupiter deeper in in the same soi. Don't forget about Dreamboys on the 2nd floor opposite of HotMale and Moonlight which is favorite bar of undersigned, he, he. Mahanakhon skywalk is the must, mornings are usually less crowded. While there make sure to check toilet on the same floor elevators down are - quite possible best toilet view in the entire world ! As per losing what you typed, those accidents happen. Try to write report somewhere and only then copy and paste there. You may wish to make more posts but shorter ( say one or two days goings per post ). Make sure you have fun day and night, there's no trip to Thailand like first one

I typed this out and accidentally clicked the back button losing it all, then I typed this out in notepad to paste here. When I came back it said “previous comment restored” it was all back! Great feature. But I had already restored the below Monday I woke up bit later which was nice, I was on Grindr and talked to another tourist who was staying in my hotel, we hooked up for a quick session. After I took some of my shirts to get laundered. I did not bring enough shirts. It is very hot so I end up sweating and changing a couple times per day. So I recommend bring extra! I then decided to do the Hop on and off tourist boat, it was only 150 baht, Mac did show me how to use the regular boats but I liked the convenience of this predetermined route, I visited icon Siam again, where I went to the atm at a bank on the five floor to get some more cash. I then took the cash inside to have the 1000 baht notes broken down into smaller bills, I did this before and is much easier than breaking these large bills at places like 7-11. I visited wang lang market which I thought was a great inexpensive market. I bought a few clothing items. They also have second hand items if someone is truly looking for a bargain. I visited Chinatown, the amount of shops can be overwhelming but it was a fun walk. I also visited khaoson road, the amount of tailors approaching you for custom suites, shirts is astounding. I was asked more for a suit than a massage :p. I returned to my hotel around 6:30, tourist from Grindr messaged me asking if I wanted another quick session, I said sure and had some quick fun. I showered and relaxed in my room, it started to rain and I was debating wether or not I wanted to even go out in this, around 9:30 the rain died down to a drizzle and I decided I would venture out. I did not want to walk in this rain so I decided to get a grab car. While riding I was thinking about buying umbrella, I thought during the rainy season it might be wise for the drivers to carry some to sell to tourists they could make some extra money as I’m sure we would pay a premium. I walked through patpong market looking to see if anyone selling umbrella but wasn’t bothered if they didn’t. I made my way to the one bar, with the help from my previous post. I arrived just before 10. The promoter asked me to come in I said sure. It was a very small bar. They sat me in the middle directly in front of the stage. If I reached out with my arm I could touch the guys on stage. That’s how close it is. I thought there was 10-12 customers when I entered with two guys posing on stage. I realized after short time there was actually only 5 of us customers the rest were bar boys. The guys asked next to me, who worked there, was very pushy. Kept asking who I liked, this one younger, you like him, I kept stating I’m just looking for now, two different guys now went on stage and posed, they did not seem interested. This place was brightly lit, very small. I was not comfortable so I decided to leave around 10:15. The guys are more muscular and a bit older than the other bars I’ve attended. There was definitely a couple guys I was attracted to, but as I said the atmosphere ruined it for me. The entry fee was 500 baht, which you pay before entering, and includes one drink. Next I thought about going back to fresh boys but I wanted to try something new, so I went downstairs to good boys. This time the promoter outside asked me if I wanted to come inside, show is on. I said sure. He opened door and mamasan greeted me and took me to a table one row from the back. This place is bigger. Not as brightly lit and was packed with customers when I got there, two tables even had guys with bottles and multiple bar boys. The show was you going on and there was a drag performance. After a couple of the boys did a strip tease, followed by a light bdsm performance where two boys danced in their underwear with their hard cocks showing, after which they removed. One boy was hitting the other with a pool noodle. Another drag queen performance. I myself enjoy drag performances and these ladies definitely lip synced well. One of the mamasans came around to me, there was three of them, she asked if I liked anybody I said I am still looking she said okay let me know if you like anybody, after show they will be on stage and you can see, she told me they had boys from multiple countries not just Thai. I felt like she wanted me to:have good time and wasn’t just pressuring me to off one. Next up was big cock show, they showed off on stage then after came into audience to show off their goods. One cute boy approached me and I tipped 100 then another, and another, I wasn’t really interested in any others I saw one of the mamasans saw me tipping and told a couple of the other boys to come see me, I tipped one more then I politely said no thanks when others came to me. They didn’t seem offended and simply moved onto other customers. A simple no thanks has worked at all the bars I’ve attended so far. After the boys went on stage. They all are wearing tight white briefs. I liked a few, the boys here feel a bit more slender and slot appear to be more feminine in their mannerisms. I was looking for a top and was a bit worried. Mamasan came around again and said which boy you like, I asked her for some info on number 16. She told me he do everything, top, bottom, you will like. I wasn’t confident in her answers and said thank you and decided to watch some more. Here it felt like the boys were not interested in me, only one or two guys looked back at me and smiled. The rest seemed disinterested overall. This is a turn off for me. If they are not interested in stage when trying to present themselves, how will they react back in my hotel room? I decided to leave for the night, I called mamasan over asked for bill. She said oh no you don’t like anyone, I explained there was one boy I liked but he was busy with another customer who bought a bottle. She said oh you show me. I showed her she said oh yea. She said I see what you like. I told her I might come back tomorrow, she asked me to stay for the next show but I declined, she told me to come and see her again tomorrow, I paid, tipped her and left. I liked good boys. Staff was friendly, atmosphere was nice, seats are dimly lit. Just wish the boys seemed a bit more interested, I will definitely return, maybe the boy I like will be available next time. I was thinking on heading back to my hotel as it was just about midnight. I walked a little further and fresh boys promoter saw me and said come inside show is on, o thought for a second but said sure. I went inside and it was about 3/4 full of people. Drink is 400. The boy I had offed previously was on stage in the show and he greeted me. I sat down and ordered drink and watched the end of the show. After the show he came over and greeted me. I tipped him 100 we chatted for moment, I asked him if anyone new was here who was verse that he could work with. He gave me two numbers. Then the papasan told him to rejoin a couple male/female who I guess bought him a drink before the show. So he left to join them. I was disappointed maybe they were gonna take him tonight. I looked on stage and a few of the guys where thrusting their hips at me, I guess he told some of these guys what I like, they didn’t really interest me. One guy was older and he kept trying to get me to buy him drink,I’m just was not interested. The couple who had my guy was paying their bill. I did not see him get dressed so after they left he came back to rejoin me. Papasan asked if I wanted to buy him drink, I said sure. So I talked to him about the guy he mentioned. We watched for him to come to the side of our stage. He was a little Twinkier than I like but I asked papasan for him to buy drink so we could talk. I picked him between the two numbers my guy gave because my guy told me his English was better. He joined me and asked me usually questions “where you from” “ how long you here” My guy said he was in next show he had to get ready I said sure, I talked to the new guy, I asked him position he said everything, he seemed nervous, he wasn’t here the night before. I told him I wanted to see my guy fuck him, then him do me, he said he was fine with that, I asked rate. He asked me how much I paid my guy I told him as I was fine with it and he said ok. So I decided to off them both. He went to go get changed I paid the bill. Then when he came back we cuddled while we watched the show, my guy was in show with the drag queen with simulated sex acts, I haven’t seen this before since both nights previously I left the bar with him before he performed this act. We got back to my hotel room, all showered. Nice thing about this room is the shower is big enough for all of us with a rainfall shower head, new guy was finishing up in shower while my guy and I discussed my days activities where I went. We had slot of fun with the three of us. Unfortunately my guy was too big for the new guy to take, he tried but I didn’t want to ruin the mood by having him continue, I was a bit disappointed but we all still had fun. In the future Im not sure how I would overcome this to ensure new guy would be able to fully perform. We all showered again I tipped them both and thanked them. Ordered some food and off to bed I went. At fresh boys after I picked two other guys trying to get us to do three, even one of the waiters showed me his number. I definitely could not do three haha. Are the waiters off able? I thought they just wore numbers to make it easier to know who helped you. Fresh boys definitely has some cute waiters. Should I try any other bars tonight? I’m thinking of heading to skywalk this afternoon then maybe to arena after.

Thanks for great first trip report. You're learning quickly about boy bar etiquette and customs. Sorry to hear about disappointing massage experience. Inability to get or maintain erection is certainly cause for dismay. Whenever I experience this I usually cut the session short, pay the minimum tip and move on. Luckily this hasn't happened very often. About the difference between photos and the boy who shows up for appointment. Their photos were taken when they first went to work in the shops. In some cases that could be 2-3 years ago. Btw, the soi with Banana Bar is known as Soi 4. The "nine" massage shop you referred to I believe is 9-Teen massage on Silom Soi 6. It's the only shop that only employees Thais and not other ASEAN guys. 9-Teen has two shops on same soi and another around the corner on Silom rd. That you've managed to find a guy from FB's that's compatible is encouraging. Hope your good luck with him continues. Please keep on reporting.

Or she......

me too - I asked some of my young friends who are in the business why they take these PDE-5 inhibitors (Kamagra, Sidegra, etc.) and the number one reason that came back is that they are young and sexy and we are old and not so sexy. The PDE-5 inhibitor gives them that extra confidence to "not let us down" {pun intended} so that we will have the illusion that everything was great and the customer is happy.

so did your wallet feel any lighter after he blessed it 🧐

Wow @Verchiele what you write is SO true...... When I lived in Rome, Italy - my FAVORITE discoteca was the Muccassasina https://www.muccassassina.com/ Well, in one of their bathrooms (when it was operating out of the Qube building) - there was this extra "special" exit just near the urinals. Well, once you entered into this special exit - you entered into a dark maze where many of these HOT Italian guys (gay, bi, "straight") would have their pants open stroking on their meat. They would often join you, go down on you, or push your head down so you could service them. Often these interactions were quick - because often the guy would run back into the bathroom to clean up and go outside to rejoin his friends or girlfriend. On one of these encounters, I was so taken with one of these hot Italian studs that I followed him in a sneaky way - after he had just finished to blow me - and his girlfriend was waiting outside of the bathroom and she started to bark at him for taking so long as she wanted to dance and he just planted a big kiss on her lips to shut her up - I found that scene so enjoyable because 20 seconds prior his lips were busy servicing my cock and now he is kissing her.....amazing!!! So, what @Verchiele wrote, "and when people are "in the mood", I think a meat is a meat." 🤪

All about the timing, places, personalties and situations. On the first night I met a beautiful guy with great body zero fat, lean and willing to do just anything. Once it came to an action, he looked cold and only did when told. No eager or enthusiastic whatsoever. Disappointed and yet I made the most of it as his face, and body were so hot. Two days later at the same place, late afternoon as I was checking in, a young twink flashed me a beautiful smile, I returned a wink. Once inside, we chatted, checking out his body and his offerings. He went ahead got the room and supplies, then flashing memory from two days ago hit me, would it be the same. Luckily this young energetic boy/guy “he has baby face” delivered all the good and beyond. Once he drained all my Leche, he cum heavily on my neck and face. We laughed and glued together chest to chest and he gave me one of the best kiss ever. I was hooked, he joined me for drinks and I discovered he just turned 18, I couldn’t believe it and my cock is getting hard as writing. The beauty face, fitted tight elastic young hole, tone lean body, bowl lips wrapped perfectly on my cock and carefree attitude won my heart and pocket to met at my place the next day….. he stayed with me for 5 days. Each morning was a dream, seeing a young beautiful thing laying beside me. Feasting & munching on his beautiful brown young butt and drained every drop of his sweet juice.

In Rio now. Only been to 202 Thursday/Friday. Both nights found hot twinks though other types available as well. Guys are happy with 150. I chatted with the locker room attendant there tonight. He is a very nice guy who keeps an eye on things. He has done that job for 4 years. Before that he was a Sauna boy for something like 16 years before the years caught up with him. Both Junior(the owner) and his son working at the front desk tonight. All in all feels like one of those old family run hardware store in the midwest where you can walk in and chat up the staff and ultimately find that little (or big) thing you were looking for and leave with a good feeling.

1st time in my life hearing or experiencing that Germans are big tippers.....😲

Part 3 Encounters Slvkguy did excellent analysis of the scene in PV in his post above and as you will see below my experiences are confirming it to a great degree. I had 5 massages, all 1 hr long and met 3 escorts, I describe massages first as one of massage guys become escort later. 1st encounter , in the shop on my hotel’s street I passed by , noticed few boys sitting outside , all on hunky side as all masseurs in PV it seems but one drew my particular attention so I motioned him to go inside. I was instructed to lay on the bed and wait for the guy who arrived after 2-3 minutes. He was fully dressed , I asked how much is massage – 700 pesos=35 USD for 1 hr. Massage was good but he studiously avoided being too close to my bit outstretched hands. Only after turnover he asked me how I want to finish. I asked him to remove shirt , yes for 500 extra. What about shorts? Another 500. Approved and only then , in complete silence I had a chance to put my hands on him. Bit expensive at 1700 total thought I but at least body was great. I did not ask for contact neither him offered. In fact I never saw him at that shop again which was too bad (that body, sigh!) 2nd encounter I mentoned I saw outstanding hunk in front of shop in the center of Zona Romantica but being sweaty went to hotel to take shower , returned , he was gone but I grabbed another hunk, probably closer to 40 than 30. Again , procedure the same, cost 700 , if I want him to remove shirt 200 more so I went for that 900 package. Massage very thorough and he was not shy being close to the table so I could feel this and that through his shorts and package was sizable , even if only half erected. But that was it when comes to steamy part. Gave him 1000, he gave me strong hug and asked to see him again. 3rd encounter Guy messaged me on Grindr and asked it I want massage, picture looked good so I took an offer. By the way 3 out of 4 guys I saw in flesh and on Grindr looked much better in flesh thank on their picture. He said he can come to my room or I can come to his shop. Keeping in mind 300 fee I opted for shop which turned out to be the same when I had my 1st . Massage 700 and if I wanted him naked 500 extra. Either he was less greedy or 1st guy took me for ride. So I had my naked masseur although he only lowered his shorts to the ankles but that was good enough. Nice time for 1200 but still not that cheap at equivalent of 2000 baht. Massage itself was weakest out of all I had. Since we communicated through Grindr he expressed wish to see me again and asked me to contact him there. 4th encounter I took a stroll toward gay section of the beach and adjacent Blue Chairs hotel and noticed 2 massage shops there. In front on one was a HUNK who in fact ignored me but I’m not that easily discouraged when comes to hunks so when coming back few minutes later I motioned him to go inside. Relaxing massage 750, deep tissue 1000. I went for deep tissue. Clothing removing question came pretty fast , 500 extra, agreed. Great body , big everywhere so I had a bit of fun exploring it although it was still on modest side , mindful of conspiracy. His face looked familiar so I asked if he is on Grindr. Yes. He gave me him phone number inviting to call him when need arises. I did the same day in the evening – see Guy 3 below. 5th encounter On my last day after I checked out of room I had 3 hours waiting time before arrival of airport van. Most logic was to have a massage g followed by some lunch and I decided to check those shops on Blue Char street again. There was nobody in one I went to day before but across the street there were 4 sizable guys sitting in front of other shop. One raised his had from smartphone screen and asked ‘ massage ? ‘ Deal. Price the same 750 or 1000. Again I went for deep tissue for 1000 and it was best massage out of those 5. No mention of shirt , even less shorts removal so just massage it is. It was only one when we actually talked during session. Nothing steamy but he let me to feel his private through the shorts and his ass was of particularly pleasant firm and bubbly quality. So I gave him 1200. He wanted to give me his number and was very disappointed to learn I’m leaving in hour and half. Had I stay longer , for sure we would have another meeting ,if only to see what his shorts were hiding. In fact I saw him again, when van was picking me up he was just passing by on his way home and our smiley eyes crossed again. So as you can see , while massages per se were on rather professional side , not really much happened to terms of steam and all that at expense much higher than would be in Bangkok ( 1000 peso is about 1800 baht ) Guys There were three. First On my first night upon return from Anthropology I noticed than quite pleasant looking guy contacted me on Grindr, not only saying ‘Hi’ but also posting his enticing nude pictures. Nevr mind it was past 1 am , I responded. Upon learning when I satay it was “ ouch , you hotels doesn’t allow guests but if you want you can ask them. “ So I went down, was informed it will be 300 and visitor must resent ID and will received bracelet upon entry. Sent message again and few minutes later guy was there. Wanted whopping 2000 and since it was my first night I agreed. As it turned later he lived block and half away only. I liked what I saw , man looking much better than on his pics. Athletic rather than muscular with impressive certain important muscle so to speak. Very professional , perhaps too professional as exactly after one hour his phone buzzed indicating time is over. But I liked him and my time with him so I suggested I can meet him every night whole week for 1500 a pop. Immediately accepted, he even suggested that I can see him in his place and instead paying hotel 300 each time I can pay that to him. Despite time being 2.30 am my mind was not that clouded so I countered that we split that 300 half / half. So for next few nights I went to his place for our hour of fun. And then after 5th time all of the sudden he went silent , not responding to my messages. Not a tragedy since I had consolation in Anthropology but I was curious what’s going on. Then on my last day he contacted me again , asked if we can meet and suggested my place for a change. It was funny as he came few minutes after my previous guest, Boy Third left , generating knowing smile by night shift manager. I did not get any explanation about that silence from yesterday, I did not ask either. All went very well as every night whole week but it must be spoiler, since it was our last night he asked for 500 extra. I paid but since I don’t like such antics I blocked my sweetie on Grindr and What’s Up as soon as left for the airport. Sorry man but deal is a deal, it was supposed to be 1500. Second When I fired Grindr on evening of arrival I noticed immediately shockingly attractive hunk . Coming to PV I decided that I will engage only guys who will be contacting me first. So I was extremely excited next day when he , noticing I checked his profile contacted me and offered his services. My judgement was clouded by his attractiveness so I even agreed to his 2000 fee. He preferred meeting at his place but it was short walk so I did not mind and went there. Yes it was him, profile was not fake but still somewhat manipulated. Face was as handsome , body was great but six pack somehow disappeared, butt shrunk and he , sensing perhaps my excitement, turned bit sandbagy. So while I liked our time together I knew coming down that it was it , specially for that kind of money. Third As I mentioned my 4th masseur’s face was familiar , he admitted to being on Grindr so upon returning to hotel I checked and found him, asked if he wants to see me in my room . We agreed on late evening the same day. Of course whole 300 fee and bracelet procedure but it was worth it. As I said , he was HUNK and turned not to be time watcher , no alarm clock at passing 1 hr. and seemed genuinely pleased that I like him or rather his body so much. Quite a catch with one of most beautiful cocks ever invented but foremost very service oriented personality. I upped his fee of 1500 to 2000 , well deserved , specially in view of granting us more time that that standard hour. So to summarize my PV flesh experience, strip club was fun, expensive but lively fun. One can economize a bit by reducing size of tips and have one , not three boys sitting with him on the evening but it was worth. Massages per se were good value as massages but really who needs massage in massage shop, that’s novelty for me. I’d say expensive way of getting boy’s contact information. Big plus was that almost all guys working in all places were well built and handsome, even if they had rotation system , one can’t go wrong. As for my guest’s and host’s, while compared to Bangkok more expensive , special per unit of time , two out three were very hot , pleasant , well endowed and free of antics. I liked them but at night I think I rather dream about my Bangkok guys than Vallarta ones. Will I go there again ? Quite possibly. I had good time there , boy encounters were more addition than goal itself. I did not feel pressured by myself to chase them , it just happened they appeared on horizon and I grabbed them. Will PV become competition to Thailand in my heart ? No way as on every account , hotels , boys , massages , tips , time watching Thailand represents better, really much better value but Vallarta has one advantage - it takes half price and 1/5 time to get there as opposite to BKK and no jet lag so at one point I may become fan of the place.

This is one of the saddest events I've come across while reporting Thai news. Most troubling is that the hazards associated with the bus were well known before this tragedy. From Khaosod English Transport Minister Suriya Juangroongruangkit said the deadly bus that caught fire is not a double-decker bus but a tall single-deck bus powered by CNG, which made it very susceptible to fire. He added that the ministry will review the use of gas-powered buses due to safety concerns. https://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2024/10/01/thailand-mourns-as-school-bus-fire-claims-multiple-young-lives/ ================== From The Thaiger The driver behind the wheel in yesterday’s tragic bus blaze in Pathum Thani province turned himself in after initially fleeing from the devastating fire. He sought refuge at a relative’s home. A survival teacher defended the bus driver saying he made efforts to save all the victims before fleeing in a panic. The tragic incident occurred at around 12pm yesterday, October 1, when a fire broke out on a coach carrying 44 students and teachers on a field trip. The students, aged between three and 14 years old, were visiting Ayutthaya Historical Park and were travelling to another destination in Nonthaburi when the fire occurred. Three injured students were admitted to PatRangsit Hospital, with two of them in critical condition. Doctors informed DailyNews that one young girl suffered burns to her face, eyes, mouth, and right arm. She was struggling to breathe and at risk of losing her sight. The bus driver, later identified as 48 year old Saman Chanphut, was not present at the scene when the emergency services arrived. Saman reportedly fled after the fire, prompting widespread condemnation from netizens for his perceived reckless actions. However, the news Facebook page Esor News later shared a video showing Saman, wearing a striped shirt and carrying a red fire extinguisher, attempting to extinguish the fire. This video corroborated his claim that he tried to save the victims. Saman claimed that he been driving the bus at around 70 to 80 kilometres per hour when he felt one of the wheels fall into a hole in the road. He was unsure whether it was the tyre or the air spring that burst but he lost control of the vehicle, causing it to veer to the right and collide with a Mercedes-Benz sedan. According to Saman, he attempted to regain control after the crash but failed. The bus then hit a traffic barrier, and the fire broke out. Saman said he exited the vehicle to retrieve fire extinguishers from two other buses to put out the fire. Saman stated that the fire became more intense, causing him to panic and flee the scene. He hid at a relative’s house in Ang Thong before deciding to turn himself in. Saman initially faces two charges: Section 291 of the Criminal Law: negligence causing death. The penalty for this offence is imprisonment for up to 10 years and a fine of up to 200,000 baht. Section 78 and 160 of the Land Transport Act: failing to assist as appropriate after causing damage to other people or their properties while driving. The penalty is imprisonment of up to three months, a fine from 2,000 to 1,000 baht, or both. Continues with photos and videos https://thethaiger.com/news/national/thai-bus-blaze-driver-turns-himself-in-after-fiery-escape