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After the Jupiter final march out concluded and the show ended to prep for the next one, we lingered which gave CoCo a chance to introduce me to his Burmese compatriots who are working on the runway as models or are in the sport jacket of the night as managers (bar captains). All seemed to be genuinely nice and looking out for each other. Wondering if the Burmese and this era’s Viets? Out of the club, we spend some time talking with folks either or both of us know one way or another. At my hotel we delve into research on stamps from the British period in Malaya. Decently satisfactory practical and theoretical learning. Next morning, (Wednesday for those - like me - trying to keep track of life), CoCo out to his market helper job before breakfast. I skip the hotel’s 249 THB buffet and pick and choose from the carts on Patpong. Back at the hotel it’s time to update this report and answer DMs. I turn on Planet Romeo, I turn off Planet Romeo. All Money Boys! Yes, that’s really not any different than meeting a boy (boys) in the clubs, but I prefer to pick and choose - which, it appears - I’ve already done. Oh, and we are confirmed for Pattaya this weekend. Could be interesting as CoCo says he’s only been there for an overnight tour in a group which went only to Walking Street. He’s not familiar with the beaches, Jomtien, or Boystown. Rest of day is errands, some work on reports for a project at home and continuing investigation of the boy agencies in Osaka. I’ll have four or five nights not committed to my Chinese friends and touring with them and their 8 year old son. The post in the Forum’s Gay Japan section entitled “List of gay brothels…” caught my attention when I was thinking about this trip. As a result, I did and am continuing doing research. Several agencies are only in Osaka (where I be based); some are both local and national. I looked at 15 but narrowed my focus to Fragrance-boy.com and Chancesosaka.jp sites which have English versions, English translations, quality pictures, links to reviews and boy’s twitter, and comments from the boy and the manager. They respond to questions (Chance even sending additional photos). The boy’s work schedule is up for the week ahead, it appears to will be easy (?) to book, pricing is right on the page. What the boys are willing to do or not do and how good they are judged to be at their individual skills, rooms at agency, or at your home, or in a hotel, or a love hotel? - all these non-Thai informational channels have pulled me down a time sucking- hole. Time to pull myself out of this hole, doing something outside in the fresh air, then return to my report. Three items tonight: dinner, drinks, and clubbing.

Maybe, but Dick's and I go back a long way. Twenty plus years.The BKK Dick's was a favourite for years, replaced in our affections by the JC one when we changed our location. As Oscar Wilde nearly said, to lose one gay restaurant is unfortunate but to lose two sounds like carelessness. And so I hope Kokopelli3 is right,.

Spent a few weeks in Manila and Boracay. This section isn’t very active, so thought I’d type up a quick report. Stayed in Makati in Manila, near the red light district. I would avoid this area. It’s very congested with traffic and filled with people asking for money and trying to sell you viagra and cialis on the streets. It’s not dangerous, but a stark difference when compared to BGC. Public transit is poor in the city so you will be taking Grab a lot. Walking is harder than in other Asian countries due. The traffic flow made more sense in Vietnam than here, for example. Sometimes the traffic light would be red, yet a traffic attendant would still be directing traffic to keep moving, even as a group of pedestrians tried to cross on a walk signal. It literally makes no sense, so don’t try and comprehend it. There is no “rule.” Even motorcycle drivers seem less capable of navigating around pedestrians as compared to Vietnam, where as long as you keep a steady pace, you can cross even the busiest streets. Most hotels have security/doormen. If you invite anyone over, they will often take the ID of your guest and register them in a log book. When the guest leaves, you will be checked on and made sure you’re okay before the guest is allowed to leave. You can get past this by walking your guest in and out, but if you are nervous of people knowing your business, keep in mind that it’s impossible to be discreet. I used Grindr only while here. It’s very active. In Makati, there were tons of profiles less than 500m away. If you are white, you will get 50 messages per day or more. the typical conversation goes like “Hello, where are you staying? What are you doing? Can I come now?” They don’t ask for photos or nudes or talk for long. If you’re white, they want you regardless of age or weight or dick size or sex position. Almost everyone is a “top.” The men are… well, not my type. When compared to other Asian countries, the men on the apps are young and cute-faced, with either thin bodies or chubby bodies. Their dicks are often quite small, 3-5” in length, but usually on the thicker side. Every is circumcised. They are often quite poorly done. The sex skill seems to be quite poor as well. Many tops (and even bottoms) will cum in a few minutes. Or they will fuck for a minute, take a break, fuck for a minute, take a break, etc. Many are into side fun, either cuddling or just receiving a blowjob. Normally I am for this, but the dicks are often not fun to suck due to their length and thickness. “Moneyboys” are available, or as they say, MT, or massage therapist. Many will offer you massage and extra services, where you pay one price for a massage, one price for a massage and sucking, and another price for massage and penetration. While I have no qualms with paying, I found it hilarious the guys offering these services. Often they were quite ugly, older, or very chubby. As someone who pays for big dicks or muscular builds, I could not find either for free OR paid. 200+ unique profiles messaged me, so it wasn’t due to lack of options. Many men are discreet here. They will either have no photo, a photo of scenery, an older photo from 10 years ago, or bad photos of themselves. Many times you will ask for nudes and they say “I don’t have.” You have a phone, right? Instead they will push you to come immediately. Avoid these encounters. If you invite someone over, expect them to stay a while, or try. Expect questions like “do you have a boyfriend?” Or “can we be boyfriends?” Within minutes of meeting. If you have sex, it’s not uncommon for them to say they love you. If they message you, be upfront about not being interested, otherwise they will continuously message you every single day, and sometimes even find your social media profiles and reach out there. I did not see a lot of foreigners in Manila. Many said they go to the islands. In Boracay though, it was the exact same. Many say the options are better here. This was not the case. While some of the locals are quite hot, dark skinned, lean and somewhat muscular, a little rough around the edges, these are the straight boat men. On the apps, it’s the same. Chubby, or older, or very young, and clingy. The beaches are beautiful and you don’t get harassed as much as other beach destinations, but this country is not one I’d go to for sex. Unless you are looking for smaller dicks, boys that will cling to you like you’re a trophy, and headaches, I’d say this is not your place.

False. "The Coriolis effect is so small that it plays no role in determining the direction in which water rotates as it exits from a draining sink or toilet. The Coriolis effect produces a measurable influence over huge distances and long periods of time, neither of which applies to the typical terrestrial bathroom. " https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/coriolis-effect/ Also, they got the direction wrong.

Harris/Shapiro. Imagine, A Black/South Asian woman and a Jewish man - a segment of the MAGA extremists heads would implode. (I chose implode rather than explode because nature abhors a vacuum.)

relatively early closing (midnight )was their feature for last few years . I guess most of their guys have other duties at daytime

The One (Tawan) all buttoned up, sign taken in, lights turned off by midnight . Once upon a long time ago, this section of soi 6 and turning toward Golden Cock and beyond was Twilight before Twilight. Now The One is the last vestige. Higher end restaurants, mid level dining, food carts, and a thoroughfare from Grab deliveries that’s how time moves on. Unable to alter the pace of history but honored to have memories.

I visited Tawan the last 2 nights. Sadly there were only about 4 other patrons there both times. Hopefully the weekend will see a larger number of attendees. There was a variety of physiques on display, but only 1 or 2 really big muscle guys.

https://loyaltylobby.com/2024/07/18/update-on-the-tragic-murder-suicide-case-at-grand-hyatt-bangkok-financial-crime-lead-to-death/

very accurate. I happened to be in USA on that Saturday and after watching comments on TV hypocrisy was first which came to my mind.

You, vinapu, nosy.? Not possible! The details on CoCo are part of my reporting journal and are about to emerge. He does have a Burmese name but everyone seems to know him as CoCo. But this much now: He’s 37, from Burma, looks like a brother to the mid-level Broadway American gay actor/singer Telly Leung. CoCo is a certified and very active and creative stamp collector. He’s a very popular denizen of the campus, here. He worked at Jupiter for some time, thus his connection to owners, managers, bar boys, and entertainers. I learned a few things about the fitting of the costumes at Jupiter and Moonlight. For those that don’t need artificial enhancement, the shorts, briefs, undies etc are tailored to enhance nature. CoCo was/is in that category. I was also hoping for more from Jupiter…there were quite a few lookers, some great lookers, but no one I’d consider a stunner - someone to make me pause, look again, and then look one more time. Lots are are at the “look again” level.

Editorial note: I wrote this section of the report, thought I’d hit submit reply, but unable to find it. So…here’s another go… OK, OK! Too much drama, the chalk dust was a metaphor for my loss of will power. Standing outside of Good Boys, Coco and I had a brief conversation about getting together the next night and the where and whens logistics…and that was that… for the moment. He went back to work and I went off to Dream Boys. 600 THB!!! Dream boys back when it was both a destination and the star in the Twilight nights was always pricier than its competitors - but it had upmarket cache. Tonight, I entered a large and what seemed to be an audience starved venue, finding the waiters not so subtlety hawking bottles and settling for getting the customer (me) his watered entry fee libation. Drink delivered, a jacketed manager lingered to provide information on the “artists” and their “talents”. I didn’t conduct any in depth fact checking. The boys (maybe 40 or so) in rotation were visibly not engaged with the audience and definitely on low power. The show was as the boys say “same same” as the same same somewhere else. Here’s something I never thought I’d think or say: BRING BACK MAMA LUCY! When this dynamo was bossing around the boys, the staff and the guests for the pre-Dream Boy owners of the venue things moved, visitors got caught up and pulled into the activity, the sounds, the lighting, the drama, and being instructed to buy Mama Lucy a beverage! The comparison of today to then is stark. Maybe, something after the middle of the show created a WOW! Moment, I don’t know as I was down the stairs, out the door, and back into the “real world” of a Patpong night. I stopped by the street level bar that’s connected to Fresh Boys and had a drink with the waiters. Then back to my hotel to sleep alone. Next morning after breakfast, it was up and out and errand filled. I went to Prime for a foot massage which allowed me to go to Reader’s designated massage value area of Saphan Kwai and a return to KMan spa. When I got to Good Boys, CoCo and two mamasans were outside along with a mix of boys and waiters and girls from the various new clubs and girl bars that have opened in the last year. I paid the off fee (500 THB) and CoCo and I were off for some food and to catch the show at Jupiter. On entering soi 4, we were pulled in quickly with a wai from the Banana greeter/grabber. I began to introduce CoCo but found out there was no need as he was already known and a favorite. Same with the owner of the German restaurant, I was recalled as vinapu’s companion at a dinner, CoCo’’s given a hug and an exchange of stories, repeated experiences as we move toward Jupiter. Pao comes over and greets us both, telling CoCo he’s been away too long (?!!?). We get to Jupiter, I buy the entry/first drink coupon, which is never a real coupon, we’d arrived thirty minutes before show time and are entertained by a singer. CoCo had gotten the host to seat us right behind the primo bottle service tables to the right side of the stage. The area provides a direct view into the dressing and weight rooms. There is a steady stream of Jupitereans dropping by to say hello to CoCo and as they do, I learn some more about my companion. He’d once in the not too distant past been a Jupiterean. During the parade of artists circling and intersecting in and with the audience Coco received a steady stream or fist bumps/Thailand equivalents. I didn’t notice any major changes to the show room since last year. The runway stage is surrounded on tree sides by tables with seating that is occupied by bottle holders, There are three with two patrons each, one with one grande dame presiding, one with three patrons, and one that is filled in with 6 as the show starts - similar I suppose to how the Academy Awards have a pool of extras to fill seats during the show when the stars go to poop, keeping the place looking full. Beyond this first row, the tiered seating to the right and left of the stage is full at about 80%. The seats directly facing the stage but behind the front rows is sparsely seated. Show is/was much as I remembered it. The hula hoop guy which I gushed about several years back is now looking wan and a bit ancient history. There were no real “wows” but no real horrors. Just a well tended to entertainment that attracted more women than men to make up the audience.

Coco leaves pre-morning with thanks…actually with some kicking of myself. Why? Well, when I planned this trip I wrote “BUTTERFLY” 500 times on the blackboard of life. My well tested sense of commitment to a goal was already on FAILURE ALERT advising me that this guy was one who could erase the blackboard. Anyway he was out the door and I had a number of texts from other models who saw me in town. I booked a 2 hour combo Thai/Aroma massage at Prime. Then went shopping at Uniqlo with a stop at the Food Hall for a sit down pasta meal. When in Bangkok eat like a Roman. Back for my pummeling in the best way possible. The Prime empire has expanded. In the late late 90s I had a massage in the Thai style building at the soi 6 turning point, later the building across and to the right was added to the territory,, then the space adjacent that had been used for laundry was remodeled to be several massage rooms, then this space was expanded in the direction of Silom. As Reader mentioned earlier in another topic, 3 Teen Massage shops, 5 or 6 other brands, and the Prime conglomerate the concentration of massage power located on soi 6 is remarkable. For quantity it rivals Saphan Kwai area. After my brutalization at Prime, I responded to a text from CoCo that I was going to give tonight a pass and butterfly some shows and bars solo (MY BLACKBOARD was finger-nailing across my reserves of willpower). I had a pleasant meal and conversation at the French restaurant in Phatphong 2. Then stopped by the Hot Male and Fresh Boys street level bars to say hello and renew old acquaintances. Minh (speaking of old acquaintances) found me and suggested/urged/implored/did the disappointed bit to get me to drop into Fresh Boys. I said maybe later and headed to Hot Male for memories sake from the Twilight Days where I met Van of many memories and PaulSF. As I was about to go up the stairs the Hot Male pusher/greeter/ went after me with a pitch and questions why I wasn’t already there. Very strange behavior. I went up into the club. It’s been spruced up since last year. Sprucing up did not appear to have enhanced audience numbers. I didn’t recognize the mamasan or any of the managers. I backed out saying I’d be back and weaseled out, headed for the Fresh Boys stair to avoid the Hot Make stairs greeter. At FreshBoys, I observed that many of the “models” were seated outdoors shirtless. Enticing and when Minh appeared out of no where I took his suggestion and went in. Same room, same everything as last year. same mamasan - which is a good thing as she has never failed but to be fun in her exchanges with me, somehow always finding a great seat for me adding a few model suggestions tailored to me. 40 models all lined up in neat numerical order for rotation. Almost as many as Good Boys but with a less over whelming effect due to the room’s larger capacity. As the models were in rotation, mamasan and I conferred and two boys came over to keep me company. Neither would work out for an off…and at some point my blackboard collapsed. I tipped the boys, both nice guys, wishing them well in their careers. Telling mamasan that I’d be back to see the full show, I departed, to find Minh to tell me, Caliban that he is, that had told CoCo I was in the ‘hood and steered me to Good Boys where CoCo emerged in a cloud of blackboard chalk dust. Narrative will now pause as I need to run some errands and a rain storm is due.

On Sunday, I took it easy, kept up with attempt on the gauzy haired former president. There were several texts from boys who using the bar boys grapevine learned I was back in town. I went out on Sunday sight inspections of the ‘hood and found several new hotels and restaurants and more massage parlors than I remember from earlier visits. I noticed a definite bias towards Japanese and Indian tourists. Overall things looked cleaner than my most recent memory. As I was leaving Good Boysat 2am, I palmed some baht to CoCo who I’d been steered away from by the Vietnamese conglomerate. He confirmed he’d be at work by replying to my query with “Yes’ and 8:30”. I used the day to get a 2 hour Thai / aroma oil massage at Prime. After a nap, I headed over to soi 4 to visit with Pao my favorite waiter anywhere in the world, we had a mutual hug fest and caught up.. Pao as the host and real time bar and restaurant manager used to supervise, Reader, PaulSF, another former Forum member, and me as PaulSF presided from a prominent table adjacent to Hot Male Bar I & 2, and across from two clubs by a massage service. Right in front of it was the yellow brick road to take the public through Twilight. The bewitching hour arrived and at Good Boys the mamasan called CoCo over to meet and greet, he was surrounded by an uninvited posse of Vietnamese. My escort from last night had advised me whom to invite to join my table which consisted by himself, his bother, and CoCo. After a few awkward moments I told the mamasan that CoCo and I’d be leaving, his clothes changed, off fee paid and we were out the door leaving several long faces behind. Coco has developed English skills so it was easy to learn some things. First we decided that he wasn’t one to hurry an off so he could return to the club. We started toward Jupiter but got “grabbed” from Banana’s “pusher” in chief, who is an old old friend from Twilight days and so went into Banana where with his prodding and a wave to the host CoCo and I were given prime seats. Not That it was difficult as the club was lacking an audience, “sparse” was the reality maybe 20%. Half women. The show was much the same as the one I saw in May 2023. While much the same as last year, the performers go full out which disperses good energy. Drinks were 400, no cover charge. Chatted with the manager who remembered my other visits in other venues. He told me I had excellent taste in men and CoCo was proof. I suggested we head to Moonlight and CoCo agreed saying “we can go to Jupiter tomorrow”. The hook was in and this fish was willing to be pulled in. Guess tomorrow is booked. At Moonlight, first drink still 500 Thai baht. Same mamasan who was in place when it was the old Jupiter. The pre-show rotation of boys was underway and mamasan gave me background information on many of the dancers, telling me to stay with CoCo but maybe add one of Jupiter’s to the mix telling me that based my past likes.. All this while CoCo is filling in the public record on CoCo. He’s Burmese and fled Myanmar to avoid being conscripted. He’s 37, works a morning / day job at a market. He knows many, many folks, one is in the Moonlight rotation CoCo invites him over. I’m unable to tell if this is impress me or the friend. Friend is Burmese, he and Coco drink and catch up with Burmese comings and goings. Mamasan and I discuss the merits of a Laotian who is just now new to the lineup. Friend goes back to the final rotation before the show. With his shirt now off, I can see his large variety of tattoos, repeat “large”. Show begins and it clearly has been redone and rethought. Babe is the best and most polished dancer and is given two spots to shine. Nicky has more stage time and has almost learned to act and emote. What makes it work for him and the audience is that he knows it is a form of farce and they are in on the one together. Fast paced. One or two divas ( my mind blanks at these and I lose count. Mamasan notices that my back is tiring from sitting on a stool close to the stage and confers with CoCo before suggesting we move to a row with backing to the seats but a prominent visual. We move, it was a good idea, and soon many of the performers are smiling and winking at us - seems CoCois a known favorite of theirs. The gentleman and his companion seated next to tell me that I’m blessed” to have such a stunning lover. I refrain from mentioning we’ve only been together maybe all of three hours. I nod and say thanks. This show is working, the main stars have meshed together and made a connection with the audience (about 60% of the house, a third women). When the intros of the main performers are made and each comes out, Babe waves and smiles at CoCo and they share a mutual laugh across the room. When the stars last bow is taken in the center of the house with a shirt strip, Babe ends up in front of us. He’ll return when the lights some up and say hello and (if he even remembers) doesn’t mention our encounter several years back. My opinion based on only two shows so far - Moonlight has got its groove back. CoCo and I walk back to Quarter Silom. We discuss what we saw, overall opinions are similar, CoCo noting that each management sets its priorities, styles, to attract the best audience mix for its economics. He observes that Good Boys likes a full house and fills it with boys who then compete for the patrons who will buy drinks or the boys. Back at the hotel, CoCo is as stunning as people have been informing me all night. He does voice some irritation that it was apparent to him that I was interested in him and could see that the Viet ground forces has me surrounded like Dien BienPhu. Then he notes that he was able to get a full intelligence briefing on what I liked about stamp collecting and that he could teach me some moves I might like to learn. I LEARNED.

You're assuming that MAGA extremists would have a problem with that? Look at their track record of attacking representative democracy. Supreme Court welcomed a flood a dark money into elections with Citizens' United (against democracy). The Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act. De Santos refused to implement an Initiative passed by Florida voters to re-instate voting rights to people who had completed their jail time. The list goes on and on of attacks on democracy by the MAGA element in the USA.

And I've been told by some guys, this is what other gringos pay me....to which I respond, I'm not other gringos, lol Some will come to their senses and realize that something is better than zero....yet others, want to keep their price integrity and not go with me, yet ask for taxi money when I'm leaving 🙄

Yeah, and attempt Trump assassination just confirms it, right.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/anti-psychopath-pac-set-up-against-donald-trump/ar-BB1qhLQB?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=6ed93103ec5c42d98b57e1c8e1b8946d&ei=34 @EmmetK THE ARTICLE IS FROM NEWSWEEK. HOPE THIS IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU.

I'll say this for the millionth time, THIS ELECTION is NOT about a person.... Its about an AGENDA. Do we want a Democracy with a team working to give choice and freedom, or do we want a Dictatorship with a deranged and dangerous person, looking to control US, avoid jail, and enrich HIMSELF ?

"There are a lot of huge dicks attached to, well, less than beautiful men." ; so true, so true. The last visit to Rio, earlier this year, I was shocked at the number of over weight, older, and not handsome men (at least to me) at the saunas. They all have big dicks which they aggressively flaunt. Not my cup of tea, but to each his own.

Loud. Do they do anything else?

Yeah, she had to prop him up the whole time. Emmet needs a vacation after a rousing 4 days at the Convention , on his knees and :brown nosing with all those "celebrities" , the ones "cancelled" from show biz and slumming it at the RNC. Even the swamp wouldnt have them. I hear tickets to Russia are on discount, contact Tucker for a good deal. .

Yup, all that brain power has me reconsidering my vote...

Turned out that taking a Grab, at least for me when I was in Manila around 2 years ago, was much more difficult that I was expecting. Lots of times I had to wait 4-5 minutes just to have a car assigned to me and then wait sometimes even 10 minutes for the car to arrive. Around 4-5 times I even got a "All drivers are busy. Retry later" message. Not sure if the situation is better now but at that made my trip quite I think it's mostly like that in Manila. none of my guests had to go through check-in at the hotel I was staying in Puerto Princesa, Palawan. It's still more flexible that in some other countries like Vietnam where the check-in at hotels is strictly enforced. In both countries if you want more privacy (maybe because you are bringing 2+ more at the same time) an Airbnb is the best choice. I think the Philippines is more suitable for a top tourist. My main issue with Pinoy guys though is that a good number of them are not as smooth as other Asians. It's true also that they tend to be super clingy. Way more than other guys in SEA.

TRUMP'S RNC CLOSING SPEECH.......

Strait (Straight ? ) Settlement's ones should be particularly interesting

@lookin, your wish is Kamala's command. When I spoke with Kamala several days ago, I was actually shocked that she does not follow this website! Nor has she heard of noteworthy and wise internet poster @lookin. Thankfully, for that matter, she hadn't heard of @EmmetK, either. Anyhoo, when I brought your idea to Kamala's attention, she immediately said, "This @lookin guy is smart! I'm on it!" And so it goes. Don't be surprised if she checks in with you about being her Veep, by the way. 😉 The attack on Project 2025 starts a few minutes in. This was Kamala filling in for Biden, who is out with COVID. I assume she knows everyone is watching her every word right now, and this could be seen as a rough draft of her speech accepting the Democratic nomination for POTUS. Here is my favorite part, regarding the extreme and anti-democratic parts of Project 2025, bought and paid for by the right-wing billionaire class who paid for Trump and his billionaire tax cuts in 2016 and beyond: Well said, Kamala! I'm still confused about how billionaire tax cuts, cutting Obamacare, cutting child tax credits that helped tens of millions of working class parents and cut child poverty in half, and threatening to be a dictator are good for the working class - of any race! Seems like we need to go into way more detail about all the nasty anti-middle class and anti-working class nonsense in Project 2025. To be fair, this is way way way beyond the fact tolerance of our racist idiot @EmmetK, who thinks Kamala is a Black Asian American female DEI dolt. So here is a low information comprehension question for you, @EmmetK,since understanding Project 2025 is clearly above your pay grade. How many times did Kamala cackle in her speech? A. Five times. B. Fifty times. C. Five million times. D. Not once. P.S. I am a bit concerned for @EmmetK's mental acuity and mental health, given the toxic reaction he and so many MAGA types have to actual facts. Kamala said it best herself, when I guess she was supposed to be cackling like the stupid Black woman @EmmetK thinks she is: Good news for Democrats that Kamala can call out Trump's hate and lies with a smile, warmth, and exuberance. Bad news for MAGA types who prefer testosterone to facts.

Rest assured, there's whole brigade here. If course we never start thread about where to find the best because surely we wouldn't agree but common denominator is , we love it. Beauty of that dish is that almost everywhere it tastes bit different, even if ingredients are more or less the same , proportion are not and it ranges from sweet to outright hellishly spicy.

if you are there most likely you will be first one to discover. In meantime go to Salt and Pepper behind the TukCom

You mean hotel's name or city ? For what I know central district of HCMC is still called Saigon

Yes, I remember those terrible days.

The forest was shrinking, but the trees kept voting for the axe; for the axe was clever and convinced the trees that because his handle was made of wood, he was one of them. — Turkish proverb.

Nice report roughjoke The straight boat men are not available ?

I know people who fly over half the earth to embrace certain Thai boys so that breakfast trip doesn't seem extravagant

The worst thing that happens...not the sleeping alone, I prefer that...but the not hooking up part. The per diem to travel to Thailand, or anywhere....makes me crazy to lose 1 night to doing/ being with no one. I can do that from the comfort of my own bed.

Rubbish. And disgusting rubbish.

I ask him tomorrow and let you know

You're on to something there. I agree that lap dances are virtually unknown throughout Asia and so it may be something Asian customers in Thai bars would not be demanding. But these things can change. After all, near-naked gogo girls and boys twirling themselves around poles also came to Asia quite late. While it is true that some bars with cabaret-type shows are doing well and their audiences seem to be majority Asian, I would be careful not ascribe it to an Asian preference for shows. After all, the offing bars - bars which downplay their shows and focus more on selling their boys - are also predominantly Asian in their customer traffic. Think Hotmale, Fresh Boy, Moonlight (and Toy Boys in Pattaya). I remember a dinner party some years ago in Singapore with a whole bunch of gay Singapore guys - friends of friends - many of whom were frequent visitors to Thailand. They dissed the cabaret-type shows and very much preferred the ambiance of offing bars; they were also very much into "massage" places. I think a better explanation lies in the hetero/gay divide. IMO the bars with splashy shows appear to do better not because they attract Asians, but because they attract heteros. I see the current gogo bars slowly bifurcating into (a) show bars and giving up the offing side of its business. A handful of bars remain as (b) offing bars. By "Show bars" I mean places like The Venue in Pattaya where taking a boy out is not on the agenda (with rare exceptions depending on the dancer). These bars may have a courtesan side to it, where the performers sit with customers, teasing and flattering them for biggish tips, and enticing customers to splash on bottles. I think that's where BoyzBoyzBoyz has gone, and the 1,000-baht off fee may be a signal that they're not interested in offs anymore (I also wonder if a different off fee applies to female customers). More and more, I see Jupiter (Bangkok) evolving in this direction. In my estimation, show bars can be very profitable, but in Bangkok with its high overheads, they will also need to be more hetero-women-oriented than gay-oriented because they need the traffic in volume. Eventually, e.g. Jupiter, they may discontinue the offing side of its business and just focus on shows and courtesans. An uncoming report in ShamelessMack, from a recent visit to Banana Room, will illustrate this transformation. Toy Boys (Pattaya) is an example of a pure offing bar - essentially a brothel that displays its service-providers in a drinking environment for customers' selection. I think A-bomb (Pattaya) is too. Hotmale is coming close. What little show Hotmale has now is entirely performed by its numbertag boys, with no katoey component. Fresh Boy, Tawan/The One, Dream Boys Pattaya are close to being like Hotmale; the drag component of their shows is shrinking and may in time disappear altogether. What performances remain after that would be amateurish dick displays -- which would be in line with a business objective of encouraging offs. Because offing bars have little appeal to heteros - we've heard again and again that the straight women seldom take boys off even when they go into these bars - pure offing bars have to remain small and therefore have to watch their costs very carefully. Like massage shops, pure offing bars can be viable though they will have higher overheads (e.g. wages to boys in attendance, rent in expensive parts of the city, tea money to you-know-who), but then they also sell drinks unlike massage shops. (Actually, they need to rent less floor space than a massage parlour). The uncomfortable in-between would be places like Dream Boy Bangkok and Moonlight. Currently, they are trying to be both a show bar and an offing bar. How long can this uncomfortable straddling of both sides last? If I have to make a wild guess, I think Dream Boy will evolve towards a show bar* and Moonlight will evolve towards an offing bar - perhaps a more respectable one without flashing dicks. *Shows don't have to be slick cabaret acts. Banana Room seems to be leading in this space. Dream Boy, if it evolves into a place that is mainly a show bar, may find itself squeezed into the niche of offering shock value freak shows to hetero traffic. It already has older performers whom few customers would consider offing, hired to perform its explciit shows.

you may be bit too optimistic here. Sad fate of short lived Sol bar is one case. There were warning signals, I witness one - young farang couple leaving loudly complaining about level of noise and nobody did anything including boss , present in the bar at the time. Second is sudden demise of Tawan, cause unknown but certainly not shortage of customers. Both kinds of rumors circulated were pointing to the owner. On another hand I remember outcry when Dreamboys in soi Twilight raised drink price to 650 and still remainded most packed bar in the soi. Another case is BBB in Pattaya, looks that conversion to fully dressed ( some even in long sleeves ) boys on the stage did not hurt attendance. Neither did 1000 baht off fee since stage was packed with boys both last times I was there. But yes, I agree we should leave running bars to the owners as they are ones who really see bottom line even if at times they don't notice what they see. The same is case with boys asking for tips we may consider unreasonable, they may be fishing for higher price but also they may know what we don't , for example generous Indonesian is coming tomorrow and he tips 5000 a night just for drinking together, no body contact required nor expected ( authentic case of Tawan boy explanation when declining 4000 tip offer for another night in times when 3000 was considered generous )

I don't remember who said it first , Plato , Spinoza or perhaps Edith Piaff " men bored in boy bar is bored with life"

Macaroni - you are GREAT. I wish that you were the mayor of Pattaya - as you could make things so much better here..... You wrote in the context of gogo bars, but if you have visited the Jomtien Supertown Complex - with the boring bar manager mantra of: "farang sit farang drink", those 30+ bars are so ripe for your philosophy to add some true entertainment and/or alternative value otherwise it just continues to be so boring...

All very sensible.

The Patpong mayoralty is yours to lose.

Thanks, @Riobard for those kind words. Lap dances inject scaling into bars' product offer - that's what started me on this suggestion. It's like this: most businesses would try to offer a range of products to suit different budgets. For example, airlines have first class, business class, premium economy, economy. and then major airlines often have a low-cost subsidiary too. Shampoo makers usually have different brands at different price points, and each brand may have different bottle sizes, again to cater to a diverse market. Less visible is that the lower end of the product ranges are used to generate volume and thus spread the fixed costs. What has struck me about gogo bars in Thailand is that they really have just one product and one price point - the off fee (500 baht?) and after that, the compensation to the boy, now averaging 2000 - 2500 baht. If the customer is not prepared to spend that amount, the customer gets next to no satisfaction from a visit. It's an all-or-nothing set-up. There are potentially plenty of customers who could be attracted with additional product offers. For example, a customer who has come from a massage with happy ending, and (being older, perhaps) does not think it worthwhile to off a boy for another full-service bed-romp. Or a customer, e.g. from a middle-income country, who is travelling in a group and sharing a room. He can't take a boy back. Lap dances can pull some spending out of these customers and provide some thrill and fun, even if not the full works. In turn, a reputation for lap dancing pulls more customers into a bar, and drink sales go up (generate volume and spread the fixed costs - rent, wait staff). It's equally important to see it from the other angle. For the boys working in bars, it's currently also a ridiculous all-or-nothing set-up. They either hit jackpot on the night they're on duty (with an off) or go home empty handed, save for a 100-baht tip or two. Lap dances allow them to earn a bit more (e.g. 400 baht for 10 minutes?), and they can serve more than one customer a night, so that there is a lower risk of a night with no income and having to go back to his lodgings with empty pockets. This makes the bar attractive for boys to work in. The bar can also attract boys to work there who are happy to give lap dances but are otherwise reluctant to be taken out i.e. boys who would exhibit and interact superficially to make money but don't do full sex. This can be a two-edged sword for the bar's reputation, but if carefully managed can still work. Sorry @Kiwi306 that I am going off topic. Personally I don't think there is any worthwhile erotic entertainment in Thai gogo bars anymore. The only one I can think of is X-boys Pattaya, but it's quite rough at the edges. Beware too, the last time I was there, the off fee was 800 baht!

use Reddit.com - it has groups where youngsters seeking for daddies and daddies seeking for youngsters

When I lived in Italy for 12 years and then for 6 years in Hungary - I had quite an abundance of fellow edgers to play with, and in Budapest I was able to organize many edging contests that were super hot where the idea of the game was to see who could cum first when being edged super slowly - totally frustrating but erotic and exciting at the same time. One of my hunks in Budapest was a semi sadistic edger - he just LOVED keeping guys on the edge of an orgasm forcing them to beg him for mercy for their release - too hot for words....