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I don't get offended easily and surly not about a massage place. Each person has their own likes and dislikes. Thank goodness. I referenced Cloud as that is the 2nd place I have come across and tested that has the same type of clients (both same area as well with many wealthy Asians). Some westerners believe they are the economy of boys here. That is not the case and these places are good studies in that. I have seen multiple guys from Cloud and the sex is not great, but the place is beautiful and I love the sexy guys massage and without sex it is reasonable (for me). But, if I didn't go, they would never miss me. Or, you, or anyone else on this board. This is not their customer base. Of that I am 100% certain.

for sure given what seems like such a hidden location They are definitely selling a look. Interestingly their Line info seems to spend a good amount of space hyping the masseurs' physical attributes in a way that certainly implies some things that a bit surprisingly seem to not be on the menu? At least from the automatic translation, for example "-krating Young man with a tight pack. Tall, long, not just hands but... Important, very big (arm)"

Next - Day 2 - Getting into a routine. Since my LT from Tawan left early, I continued my beauty sleep and woke up much later, skipping breakfast. I checked my line and saw that the forum member J finally replied to my text apologizing for not replying sooner since he was sleeping. I replied back saying it's ok, I went out with A and we had fun. I asked about his plan for the day and he told me he already has a boy coming to his hotel now! I told him, at this rate, he might not leave his hotel at all lol. I told him I will go to Prime for my opening ritual massage and then head for lunch. We then agreed to meet tonight for bar visits. I showered and made my way down Surawong road to Soi Than Tawan aka Silom Soi 6 to Prime Massage. Immediately noticed that one of their buildings at the corner is now part of the Quarter Silom hotel. I went inside and there were few customers already there. I was asked to sit down and wait for my turn. Once it was my turn, I chose my massage, a two-hour oil massage for 900 (100 baht higher than before) and was reminded of the minimum tip of 100. I asked if I could choose my masseur and she immediately took her Ipad and started choosing pics of the masseur. She showed me 4 pics. I chose one guy, quite handsome and with a nice body. After a few seconds, she told me that the masseur is not available and asked me to choose again, now only 3 choices. I look at it again, this time quite a bit harder to choose lol. Anyway, I settled with a masseur that has a slightly smaller frame. After I paid for my massage, I was asked to sit and wait for the masseur to come. I was then brought upstairs for my massage session. No happy ending but the massage this time was extra good, and the masseur skills are definitely unique. I would rate it one of the best i had so far from prime. Upon leaving, I confirmed with the reception of his name in case I would like to book him for another session. I can't remember where I had my lunch afterwards, but it was uneventful. Most likely a bit further down Silom road to a Malaysian restaurant there, as well as checking the exchange rate at the huge orange Supperich office. Went back to my hotel for my disco nap and at about 7pm I contacted forum members A and J about meeting tonight. A actually thinking of visiting the onsen since the weather in Bangkok was indeed quite cold, and I barely sweat walking during the day, but since J is also joining me tonight, A decided to join and maybe visit the onsen another time. None of us had dinner yet so we decided to meet at 8pm for dinner. A suggested an Issan dinner place behind Silom Complex. I arrived at T Rungroj Shop around 8 and J was already there. Not long after A also arrived. We took a table and A, with his Thai skills, made the order for the table. Good selection of seafood dishes and somtam/larb, but poor selection of drinks (beer, coke and water) The food was exceptional, and price was reasonable, plus we will be drinking during our bar visits, so nothing to complain about. We talked about a bunch of topics seeing that this is the first time we three meet again after covid, and towards the end, we decided on which bar to visit tonight, and it will be Jupiter. We arrived at Jupiter a bit early, but J decided to book a table with a bottle, so he did, saving us cover charge. We then went into Pride to drink and listen to the live singer, which we recognized used to work at Jupiter before as their midnight singer. Close to 10.30pm, we made our way to Jupiter and were seated near the stage corner on the right side. Couldn't ask for a better seat as it gives us a full unobstructed view of the stage. The shows start with all the boys in underwear doing a catwalk on the stage, then the boy will go down to the floor, towards the back, to the right side and back to the left side before going up the stairs. Pre-covid, the catwalk only on the stage then boys go str8 to the left for the stairs. From our seats, we can see the boys changing their clothes too. The shows were also great. mostly sexy shirtless boys dancing, and even when there is a ladyboy/drag show, there will be 2-3 sexy shirtless hot guys accompanying the ladyboy. After a few shows, the boys will come down again for another catwalk, this time with jeans, but shirtless. Then more shows, with the famous dancing with towels number that I really enjoy. In a few numbers, the boys actually are showing their dicks, mostly covered by see-through underwear or just peeking through tight underwear. But there was one guy who actually shows his dick full on, without wearing any condom. Too bad he isn't the hottest guy there, a tad bit older too. There are at least 3 guys I would consider off, and that's a good amount seeing that I have very low expectations of Jupiter boys will give me good service, so those 3 are worth it for me to take a chance, Happy to report the famous Arm and Boom are still there. Considering that we actually had a bottle, we could've called any boys for a drink but since I didn't feel I'd waste my night offing a potentially non-performer, and my resolve on getting an LT, I didn't bother to call any boy for a drink. J had one boy he liked but too bad the boy was already seated with a customer. A also didn't get any boy for a drink and he excused himself once the show was over, with the last catwalk of boys, whoever was still around. At midnight, the singers take over and start singing a mix of English, Thai and Chinese songs. Some customers and boys go on the stage to dance. One lady customer was celebrating her birthday and clearly too drunk to a point that she might pass out or worse, vomit. But she powers through, and still keeps drinking by the time J and I leave, which is around 1am. Customer wise, not full, but not bad for a weekday night. Mixed with Asian, farangs, old, young, mostly with friends. I didn't see any big spenders this time though. The guy who showed his dick on stage is with a lady customer who was lucky enough to be invited to be on stage when Arm and Boom were giving her lap dance on stage for one of their numbers. Too bad the hula hoop dance by Mr. Boom wasn't on offer tonight. Right before we left, I asked the singer if he knew a Thai song that I like, showed him the youtube, but unfortunately, he didn't know the song. Anyway, I did tip Mr. Boom as he is the only one that smiles at me when he walks down one of the 3 catwalks. Thinking that tonight was a bust, me and J left Jupiter at 1am, when most of the boys are allowed to leave the bars as well, unless they are with customers drinking. As we walked out the Soi 4, Banana club staff told us that they still have a show on and asked if we wanted to come in. I looked at J and without much words exchanged, we agreed to at least have a look. The bar is average size, not as big as say dreamboys, but not as small as the new Tawan. When we entered, there was still a show, but it was about to end, and it was the drag lip-sync show. I have to admit that the drag show here is better, and I usually judge it by how "believable" it is. Shortly after, the boys go on the stage, around 20+ boys, most aren't my type. However, there is one guy, who is typically not my type but he does have very defined six-pack abs, only on a smaller frame, much smaller than I used to. J saw a few guys he liked as well and told me some of them he used to offed from fresh boys. Anyway, I guess the six-pack guy noticed that I've shown some interest and started to try quite hard to get my attention. We were seated very close to the stage, and since I'm already considering him, I asked him if he would go LT and he said yes. That's pretty much all I need to bring him down and start the negotiation. Since it's already late, I don't bother with boy drinks, called over a mamasan that is not mama lucy, and paid my drink and off fee, and I excuse myself while J is still thinking on who to pick. Later I found out he took off two boys! Again, my off deliver all I expected of him and little more. Hiring the guy who isn't the model or popular has its advantages. Almost always, the service is much better, eager to please and no issues such as asking to leave early. In fact, he stays with me way past noon, and even accompanies me for lunch at Icon Siam ground floor. He stays nearby the mall, so that works out great for both of us. I'm 2 for 2 now lol. Next - Day 3 - My First Repeat.

117 Tuesday madness. Went at 6:20, too late. Full house, air conditioner can barely keep up with all the body heat. Long wait list for rooms. CROWDED! the last time I found a 117 boy I really liked was 2018. visiting 117 is like browsing men.com, muscle, beard, huge cocks, but I really just like Will Braun. In a sea of tall, muscular, rugged mature men, there are a few slim boyish type. One slim white boy, even speaks English, fully clothed standing a bit away from the crowd. But he is top only. Later offered to bottom for 400. unlike 202 boys, there is no kisses to warm up the deal, just business. Decide to pass. A charming black boy with a very tight body and a friendly smile, but he is already waiting for a room with a client. Another black boy with big hair, looks like a skinny black harry styles. stayed almost 2 hours, decided to save some energy for 202 Wednesday. All 3 boys I somewhat fancied already left. Unlike 202, entrance fee remained stable at 117, still a sexy 69. some good news on the ATM. I had sticked with Bradesco all these years for no ATM fee and great exchange rate, sadly that’s over. Not sure it is the fault of the US bank or Bradesco. So I tried Santander today. it charges 20R atm fee, and don’t show you the exchange rate. Later I gladly found that for a 1000 R withdrawal, it came at 5.06, much closer to xe.com posted rate.

It's obviously changed a lot. In the earlier days of virtually all the saunas, farangs of almost any description were welcomed. Like the gogo bars where the Thais have now mostly disappeared, both on stage and in the audience, it's mostly the farangs who make up the clientele.

No idea what kind of misunderstanding or what schemes happened between the boy, the mamasan, the previous potential customer, the following customer (if any). At least it seems it was not an attempt to scam you for money. I'm very sensitive to sex on clock, if someone tells me has only limited time, I rather skip. I had a similar experience in my early days, 2010 or 2011, when everything was new to me. I offed a boy in a bar in Pattaya and took him for a stroll over Walking Street instead of going directly to my hotel. Then finally in my room, I was just reaching out to touch, a phone call from mamasan. The boy forwarded the call to me and mamasan told me the boy has to come back now (mother sick in hospital, is that my memory or did I read that story too often?). I wrote it off as bad luck and gave the boy 500 THB (I didn't have more on me that time, else I would have given 1000; nowadays of course nothing and ask my off-fee back - nowadays I wouldn't take anyone to a walk).

Day 0 - Pre-trip preparation I have been too lazy to start writing my report, mainly due to being busy at work but partially due to recent trolls that have been infesting the forum lately. Nevertheless, I shall treat this trip report as me reminiscing all the good times I had during my recent post covid trips and I'm sure it will benefit many others who are genuinely interested in reading my escapade. I used to write my report almost on real time but decided to not do that this time for obvious reasons. Perhaps it is just my own paranoia but it doesn't hurt to be on the safe side. My trip this time is 18 days long, the longest trip I have had so far in thailand. In fact, it ties to my longest trip ever, and that was a road trip across the US during my university year. Why 18 days? It is exactly the amount of days I have from the last day I am needed at the office, as well as the day I needed to return home to attend a family event. I actually have been taking my leave of absence since last week of November, but there are several meetings and events I had committed to attend so I've been to the office on and off. I did manage to do a shorter trip to Medan, Indonesia in November though. If anyone is interested to read a trip report on that, do let me know as the trip is mostly tourist trip but there is a guy involved lol. This trip has been very last minute in terms of planning, but going to a place that I've been numerous times before, I felt quite confident that everything will be smooth. After my return from Indonesia I started surveying the flight ticket to Thailand and booked my ticket. It wasn't cheap but it wasn't astronomically high either, comparable to peak season price pre-covid if one booked a ticket last minute like I did. Previously, Airasia was my go to for last minute booking as they usually have a last minute promotion pre-covid, but that kind of promotion did not make a return, so I settled with another airline which is called Batik Air, previously known as Malindo. I did invite my Indonesian guy to accompany me for part of my trip, but I have left some flexibility in my trip in case he decided he wanted to join. Alas this plan did not materialize. As for hotel bookings, I am using the trusted Agoda booking site, and first booked my first 3 nights, suite room at Raya Surawong. Many posters had reviewed this hotel multiple times. Great location, great spacious room, comfortable bed and the suite comes with a full kitchen with microwave, full size fridge, electric stoves, pans, pots, dining ware etcs. Price was very reasonable even when I booked quite at the last minute. I also proceeded to book my last 3 nights as well, seeing that Raya hotel has already fully booked on those dates, and settled with a Furama Silom Deluxe room. Booking for the other nights was done much later when I was already there, offering me quite a good flexibility to change my plans if and when I wanted to. However, I did search for hotel availability on the dates in between to ensure there are ample choices for me when I need to book. I can honestly report that this has worked wonders for me for this trip. As this is my first return trip to Thailand post covid, I want to make sure I don't need to skimp on budget when it comes to hiring boys and having fun, and the best way to tackle this is to ensure I did my budget right. I have a few scenarios in mind that allow me to have a min case, a maximum case and mid case for budget and fun. Without going into too much detail on my spending, I can say this has worked great for my peace of mind and I still have leftovers which can be used for future trips hehe. Lets just say I didn't manage to hit my maximum case but I leave Thailand with no regret. As for boys, usually pre-trip, I would contact some of the boys I've taken before and see if they are still around, and let them know that I am coming to Thailand. But this trip, I already know several guys I like are still in the business thanks to the reports from fellow forum members and my friend who had been to Thailand earlier. Needless to say, I still contacted two boys, very special boys, and told them of my pending arrival to ensure that I will meet them when I'm there. One is a masseur from Arena, and another is a beach chair attendant in Pattaya. I leave the rest of my daily rosters up to what Thailand has to offer but I do have several guys that I am aiming to try this time, thanks to the abundance of sharing by fellow members, Line accounts of massage centers and social media of some gogo bars. One last smaller detail I wanted to share is on exchanging money. I did a google search as well as asking a forum member who is staying in Bangkok to check on the exchange rate to see if it is better for me to change Thai Baht in Thailand or back home, and found out that changing in Thailand is much better, especially if you compare the rate offered by Superrich or XOne, both published their live rates online. So I decided to only change partly back home so I can immediately enjoy Thailand for a few days but bring most of the cash in my own currency and change only in Thailand. Lastly, I posted a thread here to announce my arrival and asked if there are any members who are interested to meet me, either for coffee, lunch, dinner or better, bar hopping together. While I consider myself an introvert who enjoys my solitude, I also appreciate the company of like-minded members here where exchange of notes and experience is greatly enhanced with a face to face engagement lol. Next - Day 1 - The arrival

Haven't seen him before in the saunas, but my monkey filter would see right through him.....So I asked Joe, he said no, lol

Even models have to make a living beyond posing for pics.

The opposite of what I heard from multiple people about this and Cloud. They say it is for wealthy Thais and not farangs. I have been to both and never ran into another westerner but did run into Thai customers. But, this type of massage is only for certain look of guys as well. They have a specific niche.

Yes, sorry, I didn't know the name or that it was changed. Or, if I did, I didn't remember. I knew someone took it over but didn't know the full details. BTW: don't be surprised that I don't keep up with it or other sites. I have enough time on the ones I work with. Heck, there are sites in Thailand that I visit maybe once per year just to see design and what is happening. I know I need to keep up with things more often but the older I get, the less interest I have in anything other than this site. The one thing I would do is check to see the Palm Springs event if I were ever in the USA for a long stretch.

It is just a general trend in saunas. Young Asian are not into having sex with farangs for free... unless the farang is young and not fat. One asian boy there told me last month at Krubb "why fat farangs come here ? They should go massage shop and pay for sex. Sauna is more for fun" (meanning free sex)

Unless you are Thai or Asian, forget Chakran. When it opened over 20 years ago, it was a wonderful alternative to Babylon but with more younger and in shape Thais and foreigners were made welcome. Over the last decade, though, it has become amost exclusively Thai for Thai or Thai for Asian. Even if you are young and slim your chance of success is pretty slim.

Although I lived in Hong Kong, like many expatriates I found the nine tone levels in Cantonese quite difficult to master. Invited to a rather elegant dinner soon after I first arrived, I asked my secretary what I should say to the hostess after a good meal. Driving up to The Peak I practised saying the phrase many times. But after the meal I got the tones wrong, All the guests laughed, but no one would tell me what mistake I had made. It was only in the office the next morning that i was advised to be more careful with my tone levels. What I had said was more or less "I am a sex maniac"! Well, sometimes one has to tell the truth 🤣 🤣

I would suggest Krubb sauna. I guess it can be considered the legitimate heir of Babylon (you will even find a plaque outside given to Krubb by the owner of Babylon). The facilities are quite modern and there is a nice bar (with a very cute bartender) + jacuzzi on the rooftop. However, there is no space outdoors like Babylon used to have. You can also try Chakran. I have heard the facilities are quite nice. The issue I have with saunas in Thailand right now is that guys are still wearing masks indoors, though fewer that when I went in May. Sauna Mania in Silom, a place I usually don't go to, had a very fun and crowded foam party/orgy during the white party days. Looked like lots of the guys went there before heading to the party. Never seen that place so crowded. Even there though, you could tell who was local and who was visiting cause even guys from other Asian visitors (Taiwan, HK, Singapore, Malaysia, etc) were not wearing masks but Thais were, including some of the performers the sauna hired. I definitely saw way fewer masks (usually just one or two usually) when I went to saunas in Kaohsiung and Taipei this month.

I also like 3some - massages - 4 hands and I don't like to do it in the massage shop - so I pay a premium over what others here in Pattaya / Jomtien pay to do it in the massage shop. I pay 2.000 baht to each guy - 2 massage guys - so, 4.000 baht. Some will sure SCREAM and say that I am overpaying for this local market but I do not believe so by much more. Here is an example if I do the same thing in a massage shop: 500 paid to the massage shop 1.500 tip paid to guy #1 1.500 tip paid to guy #2 ------ 3.500 to do it at the massage shop instead of the comfort of my home where I control the music, lighting, oils and lotions that we use, what we drink, fun chat time also on my balcony to know the guys better. Also, at home I do not need to worry about some things that freak me out at some of the massage shops; bugs and insects, where do I put my valuables when I take my shower, strange smells, temperature is too hot or too cold, I do not like the music, etc. so, for a 500 baht premium I am VERY happy to "order in" for my massage fun...

Day 1 - The arrival My flight arrived at DMK around 6.30pm on a weekday, so immigration was smooth and minimal wait for my luggage. I am always guilty of overpacking, and this time around, I had to use my bigger luggage since the carry-on size cannot fit all my stuff, thus I decided to use a taxi. My flight did delay by about 1 hour, nothing too bad, but had I arrived on time, I could have shared a taxi with a forum member who just arrived from a trip an hour earlier. Arrived at the hotel around 8pm and arranged to meet with the forum member for dinner at G around 9pm after I unpacked and showered for the night out. I decided to first visit the lesser known bars for tonight, so we went to smaller bars on Soi 6, Golden Cock/Nature Boy, Super A and New Twilight (Queen). Queen unfortunately is not fully open yet, and told us they might have a show on the weekend, so we decided to not waste time there. We passed by Nature, which seems to have some boys not my type, and Super A, which has their door closed and no one outside, so we decided to skip. It is still quite early though. I also peeked through Tawan to see how small their new location is and indeed it is really small, but they had quite a good number of boys there. Since I've yet to visit dreamboy since they moved to patpong, and now they have moved to the old Lucky boy location, I decided to finally give dreamboy a proper visit and see their shows. As mentioned by many threads previously, dreamboy moved to lucky boy's location, upstairs. When you go up the stairs, even on the outside, you will see several boys, some shirtless sitting there, quite a feast to the eyes if you like the kind of boys on offer. Previously, the two huge pillars in the middle obstructed the view of the stage if you were unlucky enough to be seated behind them. Dreamboy decided to put the DJ table right there in between the two pillars thus it solved that part quite efficiently. We were seated in the second row which was fine for me, but yes, the music was way too loud to have any decent conversation. Decent numbers of boys, continuing the tradition of lucky boys, easily more than 40 boys of many sizes and ages, but no one is my type. I tend to be very picky body wise but more tolerant with the face, and I couldn't find one I wanted to off. Their infamous macho straight dancer who only goes with girls is still there, doing a few dance numbers as well as being the DJ there. He would've been the only one I might consider offing but too bad he is not available. Anyway, the show was just ok for me, the big cock show was there, the fake jerking off show was there, the drag shows were still there too but they seemed to do away with the funny slapstick comedy show by the katoeys. Since I didn't find anyone I like, we decided to leave. After I said goodbye to the forum member, I went back to Tawan and sat down. Ordered my drink and the boys were rotating on stage 3 at a time and yes all of them were wearing underwear with one of them, the obviously gay one who isn't as muscular as others, wearing a jockstrap. I saw one guy I like, an older type, but with a nice manly exotic face, with beautiful darker skin and a perfect muscular body, not too big, not too small. Asked him to sit with me and bought him a drink. The usual question of introduction, how long in Thailand etc, and then down to business. Asked if he is willing to go with me, yes. Asked if he will do LT, he paused, then said he is tired and asked if we can do ST. Told him, no. It is my first night here and I'm not compromising what I want haha. I asked him a second time, and said my offer, and he still hesitates. In the meantime, my eyes are already eyeing another guy, and through our conversation, I sort of felt like he doesn't really fit the kind of guy I want personality wise. So when he still says he can only do ST, I told him I am looking for LT and asked the guy I'm eyeing to come down as well to sit on my other side. Seeing this, he got the point and asked if he could leave and I said yes. This new guy, better looking than the guy before, bigger in size, typical thai skin complexion, body builder type body that looks like he is ready for competition. Bought him a drink as well and the usual conversation ensued. He is Issan, and will go with me for LT but asked for a higher tip but still within the range I'd pay for that quality. So I said yes, I'll off him. and he can get dressed. He went to get dressed, I paid the off fee and drinks, and off we went back to my hotel. Everything went well, I liked the chemistry with this guy and of course I enjoyed his body more lol. He woke me up a bit earlier than expected saying he needed to leave early though, something I usually don't have big issues with but certainly will impact my decision for a repeat. As in, he will not be my first choice but will still be in the running. Anyway, I went back to sleep after he left, and he asked me if I was ok with him leaving early and I said I understood. He seems glad that I didn't make any issue of this and yes, it's not a big issue for me. Side note, one forum member who I met before did reply to my thread and asked when we could meet. However, he didn't reply to my DM and line, but more on that for next update. Next - Day 2 - Getting into a routine

And vowels 😊

I respect your wise decision to arrange your trip so carefully. A man after my own heart! In contrast, my neighbour's gay son (twenty three) and his boyfriend-and yes, they make a cute couple- have just left for BKK with only their first three nights' accommodation booked. Then they spend three months travelling, where to know they not. In a way, I envy that attitude but I'd be scared to emulate it now. I like flights and rooms booked. And on hard copies! What it is to be young!. Nevertheless, one of the great things about Thailand is that it offers something for all ages.