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Day 6 I said not a bad end of day 5 reporting from previous day but now I need to add not a good start to day 6. After having some fun, thanks to those drinks at Banana, I feel asleep quite soon . Only, in middle of the night, to be waked up to light glaring from the phone’s screen and quite loud sound of music played right by my ear. Phone addiction suppressed last night resurrected. It was both annoying and upsetting, light , noise and obvious lack of consideration, specially at that hour. I genuinely like the guy so decided to bear it for a while but after perhaps 20 minutes I told him the it’s too loud and he may wake up people in other rooms. His solution was to go to the living room, at least he closed bedroom door so I fell asleep soon but when waked up in the morning bed was empty. I went to living room to find him on the phone , he did not even bother to rise a head, not to mention explanation or showing remorse.. Not exactly service one expects from guy hired for 4 nights. Why I said nothing I don’t know but I did not. Angel’s genes perhaps? We went downstairs for a breakfast, did not talk much as I was not happy and he was on the Facebook. Then I left him in the room as I went to UNESCO to see my friend , pick up my things I left with him 2 days ago and of course exchange news, not very happy ones on my side obviously. We agreed that it must be out of control addiction. In view of deal we had who would behave like that imperiling tip 4 times of 4000. Upon returning I found him on the phone again , did not even bother to raise his head to say hallo. Nice change was that shirt was removed, perhaps thought as consolation price for me. Angelic side of me announced that I’m taking boat along Chao Praya and asked if he is interested to go with me. .Answer was bit surprising , “ yes and on way back we stop at Icon Siam and you can buy me ( I forgot make) jeans for 2900” , just like that. I was left with no option that drawing his attention to fact that being glued on the phone all the time and ignoring me is not what I’m paying for . Answer was quiet and composed “ If I can’t use my phone I’m going back to Pattaya “. “ I won’t be holding you back” I said. In few minutes he was packed , said “ have a good luck” and was gone. I don’t know why but I gave him his 4000 for the time as agreed originally. I was not upset nor pissed off, in fact I felt sad for him as clearly this addiction spinned out of control and beyond logic. Who that way would waste option of making 12000 in 3 days ? In fact it would be 4000 more since my plan was to give him 1000 extra per night if all will go well. Obviously one of my most favorite guys of all time is in deep trouble but I can’t be taken for a ride to that extend. I’d feel bad for myself. So when he left I was relieved that I cut short such affair. Of course called my friend right away with news and he was not surprised and was as concerned as me about sanity of all that. Liberated, I took tourist boat from Saphan Taksin all the way to Kao San. First thing I did there was to sit down, gulp a Chang beer and eat my staple in Thailand – chicken with cashew nuts. I wanted to buy day pack as one I brought from home broke this morning (unrelated to my guest behavior ) but did not find what I wanted i.e. one which can be folded into neat package when not used so I returned to civilization and went straight to Arena for another serving of massage there. Today’s selection was even better than yesterday but since I noticed Fai whom I know from before Angkor Wat was built I knew right away who gets my business, specially that I remember his massage was outstanding then and was the same today as it turned out. Energized went to hotel as it was about time Christian PFC was supposed to show up and from there we went by BTS to Madrid Tavern to exchange news over pizzas there. Over years we developed system of ordering there two different ones and sharing them half -half. We walked back to Patpong , it’s actually not that far. We skipped bar visits as he is not happy with recent trend of fully dressed boys. I, believing that if you don’t have what you like , you like what you have, in the evening went to Hot Male. First had a drink and talk with P, one of new guys there, cousin of one of veterans as I’m eyeing him from day 1. Paulsf told me before I arrived that I will like that new boy and I did indeed. In fact I do like him a lot , I promised to off him some day soon since I had plans for the night already made as soon as HC left me in the morning. Then I took P upstairs for the show but shortly he was called to his duties to beer bar. Not that I felt orphaned as one of their guys whom I offed in May for threesome recognized me , smiled so I called him over , offered drink and gentlemanly told him I’m not offing tonight. Good idea as soon mamasan came and asked me if I will be taking him because some other customer is interested if I don’t. After a while I let boy go and got a glimpse of that other customer – young Asian who took him and one other boy. Vast stamp collection to show I thought. Right after the show I went to Tawan which was already emptying but still I had round of drinks with resident twink , Dam and K, who was one I was taking home as arranged in the morning after HC orphaned me.. I did not waste an opportunity to tease twink again that he doesn’t like me because never wants to go with me, we finally cleared that short time is OK, he refused few times indeed because was under impression I like long time only. I told him I like boys more than long time. K was not hungry so we skipped that part and went home on his new, impressive motorbike. Day 6 which did not start well at least was concluded nicely with massive hunk to embrace.

Thursday - At the hotel swimming pool, I chatted with a guy in 60s from UK. His first time in Bangkok. He had been holidaying in Hua Hin for a week and was staying 3 nights in Bangkok before flying back. Being friendly, I offered to show him around the gay bars at night. Deal he said and we would meet at 8pm. In afternoon, I tried out massage at new massage shop 9-Teen. All male staff. Brand new facilities. Clean and nice. Spacious room with en suite bathroom. But massage guy was picked by manager was straight and didn't undress. He only offered handjob for 500 baht tip and I said yes. His massage skills, however, were very good. He did a great job on neck, shoulder and head. At 8pm, I met new friend and took him to Hotmale beer bar on 1st floor. Alex was not working unfortunately. Aung was nowhere to be seen so left to chat with other staff. One handsome waiter served us. If not for my new friend, I think I might have chatted with this handsome waiter the whole night. After beer, I took new friend to Soi 4. He liked the gay vibe but said it was ok compared to Brazil (he had been to gay scene in Brazil as he has Brazilian boyfriend). We ate at Circus which had drag queen lip synching performances. I found out that spoon and andy were at G's at same time having dinner. They joined us at Circus and we introduced each other. Plan for the night was Freshboys and Moonlight but the problem was which one first? I said if we go to Moonlight late, there will not be any good seats left. And Freshboys only gets exciting after midnight. So we decided on Moonlight first. We walked past Thaniya which was filled with girls outside the bars. Thaniya in fact looks even better than pre-Covid! At Moonlight, all seats facing stage directly were taken but there were seats on the left side of the stage occupied by Moonlight guys. The guys vacated the front row for us. In my opinion, these seats are even better because the Moonlight guys seated behind and next to us and we could talk to them if we wished. One thing I like about Moonlight compared to Jupiter is that they allowed the Moonlight guys to be showcased on stage. 6 guys at a time, their red number tags in full display. Full house with mix of male and female customers. One group of youngish male and female customers in their late 20s came halfway the show and they sat right in front of stage. They had bottle service and even invited two Moonlight guys (including no. 26, whom we agreed was very cute and handsome) to sit with them. Show started late but lasted one full hour. All the Moonlight models were present including a latest addition. I don't know his name but I find his eyes and smile charming. In fact, when all the Moonlight models presented themselves on stage towards the end of the show, he was the first to received 1000-baht garlands - not one but two! It was awkward for about 2 minutes that Babe and Nicky did not receive any garland. But eventually, the garlands came and Babe and Nicky got theirs. I think almost everyone receive at least one garland together with 100-baht tips that came with vodka shot. The models seem to hate drinking the shots but they gallantly finished every single shot passed on to them by the mamasans from the customers. As for the show itself, every model has performance tailored to showcase his talent. Babe was obviously the star. Nicky sang a Mandarin song for the customers from China (fewer but there were some). Smart and Mark did a really creative Dracula-priest erotic performance. I would rate Moonlight show better than Jupiter show. At midnight, the singers took over and it was time for us to take our leave. I finally got to meet famous Moonlight guy, A, one of @vinapu all time favourites. When I looked at his rock hard well defined body with incredible abs, I finally understood why he is a favourite. Even yours truly here, who prefer twinks, especially cute small ones, am turned on by A's abs. We left Moonlight and made our way to Freshboys just in time to see the big cock show. My new friend enjoyed the show and even said, "This is better than Moonlight!" After the show ended, Freshboys guys went on stage and I spotted one twink I recognised. Laos. 22 years old. He had been in Moonlight pre-Covid and I saw him at Moonlight but had been too shy to off him then. This time, I would not be shy. I walked to the stage, tapped him and invited him down. We spoke a bit and I got one of my dream offs. Had a memorable short-time session. I suspect I will be meeting him again during this trip.

I might have something to add to this topic. I spent a little bit of time in all three bars one night in late November, then after determining that Dream Boys was not for me, I went back to Fresh Boys and Hot Male one night in early December. Dream Boys seemed to have a good number of customers that first night, though a poor selection of not-really dancers. The other two bars had few customers. I didn't like that the drinks were painfully expensive and that the shows seemed to drag on forever. I was there to check out and maybe chat with any cute go-go dancers. Watching the shows was like being put on hold by my bank's customer service department. The waits always seem to be interminable. When I'm on the phone, I often get frustrated and hang up. When I'm waiting for the go-go dancers to retake the stage, I often give up, pay for my drink and leave. Dream Boys, with its complete lack of twinks, is definitely not for me. But it seems to draw the biggest crowds. Its customers seem to go specifically for the shows. Anyway, several days later, I managed to sneak into Fresh Boys about 10 minutes before one of its interminable shows began and called over two of the almost twink-like guys to have drinks with me. They were fun to chat with but no chemistry developed so I decided not to ask one or the other if he'd like to go back to my hotel. I wonder if some energy might have developed if we didn't have to pay attention to a show that all of us were only pretending to enjoy? This time, the bar had many customers, and the manager seemed to be injecting a lot of fun and excitement into the night. I recommend it to tourists who like the kinds of shows these bars put on. But for me, it was on to Hot Male, where several days earlier I had met someone I wanted to see again. The show had already begun, and the guy I had come to see was nowhere to be found. I sat down before realizing this, ordered a drink and kind of checked out the place. It, too, had a decent crowd, though smaller than the one at Fresh Boys. The guy I had shared a drink with earlier during my trip suddenly appeared, walked up to me and sat down. We quickly left for my hotel. At the hotel, he immediately lost his clothes and got right down to business. Afterward, while I was still in the shower, he was calling his friends and was in a hurry to leave. He left as soon as I got out of the shower and could see him to the door. Again, this was an expensive night, and it did not end with a euphoric experience. But I don't think high prices are the only barrier keeping gay customers away from these bars. They used to be gay go-go bars, and gay customers used to be able to go to them to meet cute young gay men. They used to seem like gay havens, much like straight go-go bars must seem like havens for their customers. But they have since morphed into something else. Now they are all about drag shows, big cock shows and other kinds of shows. These acts draw a lot of straight female customers and straight Asians who arrive in big groups. So if you're an old-timer looking for the kind of experience that used to be available at these places, you're likely to be disappointed by: 1) the high prices; 2) the seemingly never-ending shows; 3) a lot of straight customers who totally change the energy of these bars. The energy used to be that of sexual expectation. Now it's more of a spectating experience, like going to watch a movie with friends. And these bars, at least the three on Patpong, no longer feel like havens. They feel like the gay customers have become part of the show for the straight customers to gawk at. Not only do Grindr and Hornet offer cheaper, less uncomfortable alternatives, so does Silom Soi 2. It charges a 400-baht cover charge -- cheaper than a drink in a Patpong show bar -- and has retained its gay-haven ambience and its charged atmosphere.

Dreamboy charge 500 baht for a drink, off is also 500. Freshboy 400 a drink and 500 the off also I believe. Hot male same... Surely these charges will deter some customers?!

Wednesday night - Had dinner with fellow forum members andy and spoon at local eating place behind Silom Complex. Isaan food. All locals eating there after work only us foreigners. Andy recommended the place. Some dishes are cooked the traditional way using charcoal. We had seafood, chicken, vegetables and a very fresh fish. Everything was tasty. 1100 baht bill which is pretty alright. It's been 2 years since we met up. We last met together before Covid back in December 2019. After dinner, we headed to Soi 4. We wanted to see the hunks at Jupiter. It was 9.30pm. Too early for show. I negotiated with the staff. I would order a bottle of whisky so there would be no need to pay individual cover charge. We also got to reserve a table. In fact, there were several other tables already reserved before us! We went to Pride restaurant for some drinks and light bites and listen to singers to while the time. At 10.30pm, we were at Jupiter for the show. Many customers but quite a number were ladies. Many guys. Unfortunately they did catwalk and disappeared quickly before the show started. Not much chance to have a look at the Jupiter guys. In fact, I spotted one handsome guy with short haircut whom I was interested but I didn't call him over for drinks. Show was pretty entertaining. But it was obviously catered to ladies. There was one performance where two hunks danced around a lady customer seated on a chair. They ended up pretending to pleasure her. Lucky bitch. Then there was a birthday song sung for one lady customer who was already half drunk. By the end of the night, she was totally drunk. She and her two friends (one male and one female) and a group of Jupiter guys were next to our table drinking the whole night. We were afraid that she might vomit. After the show ended close to midnight, the guys came out to present themselves on stage. I wanted to call over the guy I liked but I was too late. Mamasan had already sent him to a group of (Chinese?) male customers at table on the opposite side. He started drinking with and hugging one of them. Lucky bastard. At midnight, the vibe in Jupiter changed. It became a karaoke-dancing bar. Jupiter singers took over and started singing. Customers (mostly the ladies) got up on stage and danced with Jupiter guys. We didn't manage to finish our bottle of Johnnie Walker black label 1-litre (4000 baht) so I asked for the bar to be kept for my next visit (tentatively Saturday and I shall definitely call over the guy I liked)! Andy left first while spoon and I took our time to walk out. Soi 4 was dark. The lights at Circus were off. Balcony was closing. Lo and behold, as we walked past Banana, we could hear loud music. We were greeted by the bald headed guy with moustache from Hotmale. He had moved to Banana. He was happy to see us. Feeling unsatisfied because we didn't get anyone from Jupiter, we went in and had such a surprise. There was lip synching performance by drag queens but these queens were pretty good. Bar had customers with some single male customers accompanied by Banana guys. Because most seats were taken, we sat in front row and that was how we had good view and direct interaction with the Banana guys who came on shortly. Average types. Not hunks like Jupiter. All wearing white shorts. Would have wanted them to be in briefs but it's alright. Spoon picked guy with best body. He spoke to him directly and negotiated a long-time. I recognised two Laos guys from Freshboys whom I had fun before in the past. I didn't know who to choose so I got both of them. We didn't buy any guy drinks (even though it was the cheapest in Bangkok at 250 baht). We just paid for our own drinks and off fees. And yes, I need to mention - mamasan Lucy is at Banana! Many forum members would remember her from Lucky Boys or even further back at Soi Twilight. We managed to get out without her asking for tips while her back was turned. Back in my hotel room, I drank and caught up with the Laos guys. World Cup football match was on TV. We made quite a bit of noise. Hotel staff called to say one of the guests in the other room complained about the noise. We quietened down for remaining of the time. After the football match ended at 4am, the Laos guys left half drunk but happy with their tips.

Arrived yesterday afternoom in Bangkok and managed a massage at Arena, a reminiscent visit to Super A and a night at Freshboys. Arena had around 12 muscular options but my favourite Tip had long moved back to Isaan - current alternatives offer more than adequate choices. Ps the escalators work and the seafood places on street level are worth a look. Super A had about 8 boys who are up to the usual Super A standard. Of note 3 of the former staff are still there - has to be more than 8 years!!! Freshboys had at least 20 boys decked out in white boxer style shorts. Lots of Vietnamese choices. Bar was 3/4 full most of the night with male and female customers. Shows were okay - not a big fan of lipsyncing cabaret but boy shower scene/ big cock parade were more than appealing. One thing about Freshboys the lads are very eager - lots of offers lots of enticing glances and smiles, lots of thank yous. One lad put my hand down inside his front to advertise his wares and asked "you take?". PS also walked inside world heritage listed venue and managed to overhear " what you like? I can get for you . You want boy? girl ? ladyboy? or 2? . not a problem"

I agree with you 200 percent. As you can see from my blogpost of September 2022 (Bangkok gogo bars: 15 years of price rises) I came to same conclusion. The bars got themselves into a vicious cycle of focussing on shows (which were never more than third rate), reeling straight gawkers in and relentless price rises. I also have records from 10 - 15 years ago where I noted my observations regarding customer numbers, and the current footfall that the bars are getting is only about half of what these bars had in 2008 - 2010. Actually, since there were twice as many bars in operation in 2008 - 2010, this means that the footfall today in all the existing bars combined is perhaps only a quarter of the traffic the entire industry had in those years. What we need are a couple more places with the easy-going atmosphere of Tawan, but differentiating themselves by having twinks, boys-next-door, etc so as not to compete directly against each other.

I have found my best 2 airbnb thru friends who had known these apartment’s and the mgmt and knew i would like them! i think the doormen like meeting so many new guys while i stay there! lol i got back to Ft. lauderdale today and this was a great trip although shorter then i usually stay for - just 6 days! the next day my Brazilian friend was sitting having lunch and there were 2 guys with him one of whom i didn’t recognize, it turns out he had just gotten to Rio and was going to stay with a friend but it didn’t work out so he needed a place to stay for the night…after seeing this 6’1”, blondish/brown hair, 22 yr old and talking a while i said he could stay in my apt that night and he was really happy to be able to. i told him there was a extra single bed and that i had some friends coming over so he wouldn’t be able to l be there until after 11:00pm he said no problem! He turned out to be a treasure! when he got to the apartment my two guys were just leaving so everyone got to meet! When the door closed he kissed me and you can guess what happened next!! we finally got to bed about 1:30 and at 4:00 am i felt him stirring and wanted to have sex again and then again at 9:00 am! i was worn out before the day started! He then made the bed did the dishes and cleaned the apartment! He is a keeper for someone!, He stayed with me the next 3 nights!

I went there last week with a "local friend". Going there on Sunday afternoon without booking in advance is not a great idea... but the owner gave me an Ipad with all pics of boys, many were already in action or booked. But i found 2 boys, good looking, strong body even not hunk body type. They have many twinks. The place is very clean, and they have double room for massage - nice to go with a friend... We didn't have shower in that room, but the shower outside was large and clean. The massage was really good, for both of us, but not strong as we requested. Final blowjobs were well executed, at the same time for both of us, so our room got little noisy... (500 baths tip requested - minimum is 100) I can recommand this massage shop, with advanced booking on Line to have the boy you like.

For twink lovers, there is also Banana Gogo bar in Soi 4. To avoid endless shows, one can go early, before the first show starts. The "not many customers" complaints of boys might be exaggerated, they want us to send money between our visits. I still have to find a boy in a gogo bar who doesnt have an iphone 14 ... ( ok one had an expensive Samsung)

BiggusDikkus - I truly love your writing style - this one truly had me laughing....

Day 5 I could use more steamed night I thought in the morning but still was very happy I nailed long time with object of my silent adoration, LOL .At least he was quite clingy and did not complain about me disturbing his sleep like last time in May. Again I noticed he is attached to his phone, “ today’s youngsters” I sighted when I noticed at night he went to the toilet and took his phone with him. On another hand I thought it was considerate he did not turn it on in the bed . Copa doesn’t have breakfast so we went to BayView restaurant for first meal of the day and after that HC went to his room to pack, promising to be back at noon. I went to Paradise remembering I promised Wit to have another massage with him , on my way stopped at taxi booth by ‘metal tables ‘ restaurant and ordered taxi to Bangkok for noon at 1300, paid 300 there and 1000 payable to driver I was told. Wit did not show up so I went to my room to pack up, Lined him ‘ where you are ?”, “I slept in” answer come and was very disappointed when I told him I will be leaving at 12. ‘ Come to say good bye “ he asked. Since I did not have much to pack I went for a stroll to Tukcom and returned by way of Sunee Plaza of course completely empty at that hour but I just wanted to get some fresh air from there. Returning I stopped by Paradise to say good bye and consoled Wit with news I will be back in 2 weeks, he even walked me to the hotel where I found taxi waiting already, good 15 minutes before noon. HC showed up at 12 on the dot, I must command him not only for his good looks but also for being always on time, he must have drop or two of Swiss blood in him. Endearing to me as I know and observe difference between say, 4 and 4.05. It took 2 hours exactly to get to Furama Sathorn which since December trip become my favorite hotel in the Silom area. Big rooms with balconies , breakfast included , close to Chong Nonsi station. I was greeted with news of upgrade, their system probably noticed my recent loyalty and it turned out to be two steps up upgrade as I got a room with separate living room and bedroom . Since we were two and stay was 4 days I asked for 2 door cards, just in case. And nobody blinked and eye when they asked if I want 1 or 2 beds in bedroom and answer was obvious one. We went to eat something at modest Thai place in front of hotel , then HC asked if he can heave some sleep so I left him alone and went to Arena for massage greeted there by Art , the mamasan known to me since 3rd Crusade I think. About 10 guys , all muscular hunks so I had problem of picking one but went for biggest smile. Massage 800 for 1.50hr, I tipped 1500 and session was bordering on fantastic with both massage and afters. When I returned to the room HC was still asleep – I did not know I was so active last night that exhausted him to that extend but it was fine with me. He waked up just when I felt hungry and suggested soi 4 for a dinner , idea I liked so we went to G’Bangkok for my schnitzel and some Thai dish for him. It turned out he is friend with some guys from Banana Club across the soi so after dinner we went there to have some beers and drinks with his friends and when time came we went inside for a show and more drinks. Boys there are more on twinky and next boy side but I having HC beside me I did not pay that much attention to who is available but noticed one guy previously from New Twilight there. Since I tipped him there in May I repeated my “vinapu tuck ‘ with red note in Banana Club as well. We returned to hotel bit past midnight and after all those beers and drinks we were on quite jolly and possibly when walking and talking, loud side, he, he. Not a bad end to day 5. Room at Furama Sathorn, 6148 for 4 days , breakfast for 2 included

While I speak to many bar owners in Jomtien Complex each week, I'm not one of them. I am just a regular in a couple of the bars. I do however think it's fair for me to comment on why Jomtien Complex is failing to reach it's potential as a bigger destination, as Boyz Town and Sunee once were. When a bar in Jomtien Complex has a party, other bar owners go along, buy drinks, and "support" each other. It's all fake. It's a peacekeeping act that doesn't work and frankly shocks me. I have watched this shit for years. Last night, 14/12/22, BC Bar had their turn for party. It wasn't important really. Just a staff member who was celebrating a birthday. As with many staff members birthdays, this has to destroy the whole Complex for the entire night. Any new tourist will likely never return. Some bars take a moment to think about the surrounding businesses. Not Bill, and not BC Bar. The same can be said about Sun Bar (Sun), Dragon (Laron), ect ect. The "stage" with the screamers on was outside of the bar facing down the main street, just too piss every singly person off who didn't want to hear it. The only safe heaven was Double Shot. Behind the stage. Not sure who wants to listen to drunk pensioners screaming "country road" at 8:30pm while they are trying to bar fine a boy from a bar 30 meters away? (My friends complaint to me). From 8pm, the volume was sickening. I had a LINE message from a staff member at 4T bar complaining about his headache. I had one too, and I was sitting inside at cocka2 bar. For boys who can't escape the sickening volume of shrieking pigs on a microphone, because they are required to stay at work, I feel they should be compensated. Until a time these bar owners start behaving like adults, and understand that their tourist money "bread and butter" have no interest in some Thai boys birthday, but want to spend money on drinks, bar fine boys and enjoy their holiday in Jomtien Complex. They are destined to fail. There is my rant. Grow up guys. Bill might have been the issue last night, but the rest of them know who they are.

both but in this post I meant Bangkok venue, Quite possible that my defintion of twink is too wide. After all what do I know about twinks if I like hunks ? with so many straights frequenting boy bars no wonder off are getting scarce buy boy found remedy i.e. apps and Line. sometimes asking for Line is first thing they do when sitting down invited for a drink,

party not necessarily means that dead will raise from their graves because of noise level in few bars. Noise level in any bar and any party should be low enough to allow for at least basic conversation

I second you! I miss Screw Boys too!

I was pissed off just reading this.....it's not only the money, but OUR time. As Tourists, we come a long way and spend a lot of money and the per diem is high. I had someone in Pattaya that ended bad, was late and I ended up alone. I preferred alone than with someone on their phone the entire time, so ended as a wasted night....to me. We were out at a bar in the neighborhood and I walked off from him, he didn't ask for money and I didn't offer any...... A Brazilian friend said to me, while talking about incidents like this.....that's why they're still sucking cock for money....😏

I agree with Vinapu. Maybe, just maybe, if we now all vote with our feet the “offending” bars will get the message. Nobody is objecting to a reasonable party. What we are objecting to is the noise intrusion 3 or more bars up the street. Imagine what would happen if this behaviour happened in a similar residential area in London or Sydney….which are probably the sort of cities where these bar owners originate from.

This guy definitely has a social media addiction. Having met him with you when you were here BEFORE either of us knew about his addiction - he is definitely one of the TOP hotties in BoyzBoyzBoyz (BBB). He is one of the FEW guys who takes his shirt off (with his impressive torso) in BBB lineup when the guys are making themselves available to the audience. It is SO sad that he is most likely not even aware of his addiction and how it is negatively impacting his future earnings. Since you left, each time I see him in BBB it all comes back to me this story that you shared with us today ..... To be honest, I wanted to chase after him (as he is also my type) after you had left Thailand - and I knew that the he would be available - but I just could not - as this story was too much of a turnoff for me so I just moved onto other hotties....

I visited each bar once in early Nov, Freshboys was packed for the show that night to extend some farang moved a bit to create sitting space for me. Dreamboys was also quite good patronized. Hot Male so, so, may be 10 clients but at least 3 offs( one of them double, just reported in another thread)during my time there. Perhaps all that "bars are expensive , apps are cheaper" ( I'm not saying false ) propaganda is seeping into clients ears and bars are being abandoned one by one ? But with boys fully or at least half dressed it may be their fate. Only bar where guys are wearing just undies if that much- Tawan seems to be well patronized although considering their new size it's not tall order to make it crowded.

you got it right, we mostly discuss tip to high, no too low. but I have similar ,not as drastic story from BBB. I had hots for some guy, offed him few times and went early to off him again. He was sitting and drinking with some Oriental lady already. I tried to outwait her , then watched the show and probably past midnight gave up , taking another guy hoping mine got offed or at least tipped handsomely. Next day I return , he was available and took him home. told him about waiting and asked him about off and tip. Answer was no off and 100 ( one hundred) baht for being prevented from off for whole evening. He lost 1900 as I'd tip him 2000. It's why on my last trip I did not take any offense when while sitting with boy in HotMale mamasan came and asked me if I'm taking guy because somebody else is interested. I said no, tipped guy and he went with some guy 1/3 of my age and another boy from that bar.

I was there month ago, Prince closed, staff at Senso entirely new but that may change on short notice- keep in mind they re-opened not long ago so may be still looking for guys and some may return. You won't be disappointed at Arena, great staff, some new , some veterans but certainly there's choice. From other places with similar types you may try Sabaidee in the same soi Pluk Chit Sanctuary Spa is ( it was opened in December so I assume still is ) and Jey Spa in Sukhumvit soi 41. As for bars try also Moongligt and entirely new Queens Club (just renamed from New Twilight ) in the same soi Nature Boys and Super A are around the corner from Tawan Have fun !

Day 7 Not many fireworks last night and in the morning , are we getting too used to each other? I’m not complaining but that was my morning reflection. At least he was not in rush and I was not about to chase him away too although at one point I did for simple reason – buffet breakfast at hotel will be finishing in 30 minutes so we better rush. Then I went to Unesco for our daily chat with my friend. After yesterday we had actually a lot to talk about. Early afternoon returned to hotel as I was expecting former model X. What a guy! Always delivers outstanding time, he knows how to treat customer to earn fee and get repeat business. Not only body pleasures but also he is good conversationalist so never boring moment. Worth his fee for sure , one of those few who, when they left I immediately think when to bring them back. Next step my recently established daily trip to Arena. Guys I had previously looked with hope but I decided to take somebody new, one of most massive guys their guys and there’s no shortage of those in Arena. In the room I had better look and he looked somewhat familiar , it turned out he used to work in Tawan , it’s why. Another great massage by great guy, literally and figuratively. It was late afternoon and I was supposed to dine with anddy, we met at soi 4 but decided to go to Madrid by his motorbike. Great conversation and great food. We got table upstirs as 1 floor was occupied by talkative Thai and his entourage. Anddy was so kind to give me a lift to Tawan , just in case resident twink I have hots for will be there and willing to share his time with me. Double bingo, I just changed motorbikes and off we went to my hotel. After at least 4 tries my curiosity was satisfied and finally I learned his nick Mas. He confirmed again he was reluctant to go with me because other guys told him I take only long time which is kind of correct when comes to Tawan guys. Mas has full time job in some store and this is reason he is not keen on LT. My curiosity satisfied, after 2 hours as agreed I freed him from my oppression. He went back to his bar and I went to Fresh Boy for a show. It was late and show was already in , bar was crowded and they found me a seat only because some patron was kind enough to move and make it . Quite a good selection , even if twinks, their specialty is not mine. I was in time for big cock show so I distributed few tips for a feel. As usual boy I liked the most got also red note and I could see he was nicely surprised as in bar we did not even exchange glances. But for overnight I had other idea, Lined V is he is available, as always response was immediate and brief “ when and where”. By time I reach hotel he was already there waiting. Always good time, steamy and fun with V. I even suspect he must like me a little , I never feel encounter with him is transactional and it’s very comforting , like meeting friend with benefits. Great end to very interesting and stress free day 7.

Good advice. That entrance/exit is also more discreet than the main entrance on Patong Two, should you wish to avoid friends or acquaintances in that street. In October they were in briefs. If you stumbled into the Hard Cock show preparation room, the guys were wall to wall wanking out of even the briefs. I was so taken aback that I had to reach out to grab something hard to steady myself..............and didn't let go until we got back to the hotel.

There is no one behind us replacing us.....When I'm traveling in the US, I rarely see young guys on the apps.....like the quote below shows, they don't know how to socialize and with all the free porn online,,,,,, Researchers have found that Generation Z is less likely to be having regular sex than their parents and grandparents. At least one expert has linked this phenomenon to increasing rates of social isolation in the current “loneliness epidemic.”

Not sure the bars will close. Because many Asians are remplacing the Caucasians customers. And these Asians like Japanese or Korean love to go out in bars. Their culture to go out and not to entertain at home. And they are more cautious than us who are taking a Gindr boy from the street...

I had the feeling there was quite a good balance between twink (i don't really like) and hunks. I will compare BKK with Pattaya as i fly back (again) to Thailand to celebrate New Year in Pattaya

Many foreigners arrived late NOV. But you can feel there is a change in where they come from. More asians than caucasians customers. Some Chinese (from HK) and many many Koreans

it's ok, it will be continuation. I just wanted to tell you guys that so you know what sometimes may happen. It was stressing then but thanks to other fish in the sea got over it by the evening. Sure , I deserve better from him .I know and he knows. And I got it. Good news is , that debacle sobered him up a lot as we learn in due course.

I am so sorry @vinapu I am having writer's block! You have to wait awhile more before I write about visits to bars

I feel like it's not a trip to Bangkok without going to one. I'm sure I will always drop by at least one every time I'm in town if for no other reason than for old time's sake. And I miss Screw Boys!

I arrived in Zag at 21:50; was told the show starts at 22:30; decided to take a 2nd look at the massage places. Seemed like in the aftrnn: no pdstrians; 4-5 boys sitting in front of each parlor; again none appealing. The boys were less persistently lively than at Jomtien, most didnt bother to get out of their chairs. I wld rtrn to that soi after midnight, and the next day and night; same same. Back at Zag, the cabaret show takes place on the street (see pics below); at times cars and motorbikes passing by the prfrmrs. I took a seat at the side near G-Bar. Bad idea. 15 mnts into the show, G started their outside show, volume drowning Zag's. Apparently business relations deteriorated since Emiel's rprt, and so much for the non-competitive ethic we heard about in J. I moved to the other side. It was a good show, with 5 alternating ladyboys dancing, dressed up glittering, mouths synchronized with the soundtrack. A little after 23:00 the show moved inside, and improved. Two things changed. One, the inside isnt a bar setting but rather a dance club around a stage. Two, a troupe of 7 masculine sexy shirtless boys appeared, dancing professionally in sync btw the singing bits. A lot of energy in the air, with patrons dancing clapping shouting. At intervals, the 7 boys mingled shortly with the crowd. All this lasted till 02:00. Given the deafening volume, at one point I took a waiter outside to inquire about what was uppermost in my mind: gays or straights? Offable? Apparently he wasnt sure as to their prfrncs, but yes - offable. How much? 10,000(!) split btw bar and boy. That was so ovbviously a lie, which meant that he perceived me as an out-of-his-depth farang... (-: Back inside I noticed two farangs who were obviously well aquainted with the place, just as they were leaving. I followed them outside, and one of them was most obliging with info. Yes, at least 6 of the 7 were gays. Yes, offable. Fees: to the bar 1500; to the boy - negotiable, prbbly 1500-2000. Seizing the opportunity, I asked him also about something that intrigued me: how cld the bar's business model be sustainble? There was no enterance/cover charge and beer was 160 b; how cld they afford such a 3 and a half hours extravaganza? He said that expenses were lower than I thought. For examples: the bar bought the beer for just 60 b; prfmrs paid for their own glittering costumes; staff relied mainly on tips; etc. Even though, it seems to me quite a feat if only for maintenance and utilities, not to mention actually making money.... Anyway, back to the boys. Given the noise level, it was impossible to really engage anyone as they huddled close to the ear of one patron or another. All I wanted was to get a wtsp/line nmbr. However, I m not at my best in the wee small hours, so I let it drop. Nvrtheless, I had a great time, the format being so dfrnt from Pattaya, and the boys - much more appealing. The next night, per Emiel's inspiration, I went to G bar. It's much smaller; the cabaret - good but less so than Zag's; max 20 patrons cmprd to at least 80. Again there was a 15 mnts volume overlap. M not sorry I went there, both to show support as Emiel had suggested,and bcs of a very talented ladyboy (actually ladyman by his appearance) mimicking Japanese song acts. After the show ended, I joined the inside-party at Zag. Again srprsd there was no cover charge or even a mndtry 1st drink, I donated 300 b. In both bars I didnt see any staff sitting with patrons, or appealing to me. I m glad the next day a masseur called Adam from Blue Dolphin solicited me on grndr. Gave me the best erotic body massage I rmmbr, for 1500 b.

Probably his friends had arranged for an after-hours party somewhere. It was unfortunate that you offed him on that particular night.

I agree with you that the show with its nudity (albeit with condoms on) is exciting for tourists. It also gives punters the chance to see the dicks before they decide to off the guys. Good business strategy. The only downer is the wearing of shorts. They should wear briefs!

Banana off fee is also 500 baht. Perhaps the bars all agreed to set the same off fee for this high season?

The police were called to a party at The Point bar in Jomtien Complex earlier this week. A farang complained about the noise and tried to grab the microphone from the singer who continued singing as though nothing had happened. The farang then started pressing buttons on the sound system trying to turn off the music. I am not sure what happened after that as i was just passing by on my way home.

I agree. In all my years of visiting and then lliving in Bangkok, I have never been influenced by anything a mamasan has told me about tips. It's my decision, and since I never discussed in advance with the boys it was always what I decided. I always gave more than what I later read was the minimum. But then virtually always i had a great time. Sad to say i also know someone who did the same. Even more sadly he lived in Bangkok. He would regularly visit one bar and the boys knew not only that sitting with him would result in just one drink, one 20 baht note (occasionally 2) and no off. Very rarely he would arrange for one boy to visit him at his home on the outskirts of the city when he'd tip the lowest possible amount of around 1,000 baht and not pay for transport. It was hugely embarrassing and several people pointed this out to him. But he never changed.

That is extremely rare, but I have actually witnessed that sort of thing happen. Some may remember the Kaos go-go bar in Sunee Plaza - very long gone now. I became friendly with one of the dancers, June. A farang customer called him over to sit with him. The farang spent the next hour publicly groping him to the point it was obvious June was embarrassed and humiliated. Then the farang gave him a tip. 20 baht! I was furious and I had seen this farang before, so he knew damned well how much Thai money is worth. I went over and gave June 100 baht right in front of the farang and said I just gave him one fifth of what you should have given him. The farang was completely unfazed. A few days later I was back in the bar. That farang was not there. June told me that same farang made an arrangement for June to come to his room one afternoon. June went. When he got there and knocked on the door, the farang opened the door and told June he already has a boy inside, then he shut the door in June's face - not even giving him baht bus fare. That was the last time I ever saw or heard anything about that guy. I hope somewhere along the way he did that to the wrong boy and got the shit beaten out of him, but I never saw him again. I asked June why, knowing the kind of person this farang was, did he agree to go to the man's room. He said he needed the money. So yes, no question that people like that are out there. Fortunately people like that are quite rare. Even if the bar had told him how much he should tip, do you truly believe he would have complied? I don't. I think he would have done the same thing no matter what he was told and probably continued doing that wherever he went. Again, fortunately that kind of behavior is extremely rare and does not happen often enough to change my personal opinion about tipping. I have a feeling nobody reading this board would ever dream of treating a boy that way and probably has never seen anyone do that sort of thing. But I cannot argue that it never happens, especially when I witnessed it myself.

Great advice. It's exactly what I do. I haven't stepped foot in BC bar for years. Never been into Palace. Sun Bar I avoid like the plague. Bad actors should be treated as so. One of my best friends told me years ago when I was new to Thailand, "Reward good behaviour". I try to stick to that. It works very well. One boy in a bar takes his shirt off, we all tip him. The other boys see and some of them take their shirts off. We tip them too. It can go both ways!

I don't know why the photo is rotated when it is uploaded. It was perfectly straight on my phone! 9-Teen Massage is a brand new massage shop manned entirely by guys at end of Silom Road after Soi 6. It's impressive how the owners spent money to do up the place. I went this afternoon. I didn't bother with choosing a guy. The manager just assigned me an average looking guy. Thai. Looks to be in 30s. I chose aroma + head neck shoulder massage VIP package for 980 baht which comes with large room with en suite bathroom. VIP room was on top floor so had to walk up 4 steps but the stairs were brand new and wide unlike the narrow steps in most shops. Massage guy stayed clothed throughout so I knew that he was straight. Excellent massage skills. He asked for 500 baht for happy ending and I agreed. After cumming, massage guy continued massage on my shoulder, neck and head. Felt very refreshed after massage. Worth going if you prefer new place. But it definitely is not a full service gay massage place like Arena.

I think I've said it before in some other thread. This tendency to reach for loud 'entertainment' (LE for short) is a sign of failing business. It's when sales turnover is poor that the managers resort to LE, not realizing that it will only accelerate the loss of customers. WHy do managers resort to LE when sales are poor? Because in the villages where they come from, it works! In rural places, quiet is the default. Boredom is another. When a fair comes to town, its bright lights and thumping music draw people in. The louder the better so that people far away can hear that a fair is in town, and to relieve boredom, they make their way over. A low-key fair playing lounge music or soft jazz would be commercial suicide. These village boys now promoted to bar managers by absent owners don't know the first thing about business, marketing, branding, customer satisfaction, etc. Most of all, they don't know what they don't know: that customers from the rich urban world have different preferences and priorities from rural Thais.

Noise was what made me give up on staying in the Boyztown hotels many years ago. I have since always chosen Jomtien. In July, I noticed the same crazy noise from one or more Jomtien bars but fortunately I was staying in Zing Resort. I could still hear the noise in my room, but at that distance, it was muted enough to not be a problem. The following day, I met someone staying at the Venue, and he was livid.

that's still not bad. One of boys in Bangkok I know for years told me he is lucky if he has 5 offs per month, he is on bit older side though. While I too tend to tip of upper range but we need to remind ourselves from time to time we are NOT responsible for guys income stream.

They have to be called tips because in Thailand the provision of sexual services at a fee is illegal. A reality of which a few may still not be aware. I see your point - but do not fully agree with the comparisons. At a restaurant the bill for your food and drinks already includes wages for all the staff. Many waiters hope for something extra in the form of a tip but have no guarantee. And clearly no waiter is in a position to negotiate a tip. But most will still be earning a liveable wage. If they find it's not, then they move on to another restaurant or elsewhere. I do not know what basic wage, if any, the boys get from working in the various types of bar. But I'm pretty sure that it does not compare to most other service businesses as it will be far from a liveable amount. So they are not only expected to generate income for the bar from inflated drinks prices and off fees, they have to earn their own "tips" on top. I also have no doubt that most of the boys discuss what tips they get from customers and this leads to a minimum expectation. But like the waiter, they have no guarantee. Whatever a boy may ask for, it's a negotiable amount dependant on quite a number of factors. As you write, it is merely an "expected" amount but to a considerable extent it is dependent on all the various aspects of supply and demand. Same now with the apps. I do agree that the situation was different 30 - 40 years ago though. In those times all the boys westerners came across in the gogo and host bars were Thais from very poor upcountry families. There were no mobile phones and fancy clothes so much of what they "earned" went back to their families. "Tips" were very much dependent on a boy's attractiveness to customers and how well he performed during the off. In my experience "tips" were never discussed in advance and I can recall only one occasion (of many!) when a boy asked for a bit more than offered. My comments are based almost exclusively on Bangkok because I have little experience of offs in Pattaya.

On one side the tourists complain about how boring JC is as there is nothing to do but sit, drink and watch the boys play their mobiles On the other side the expats complain when there is entertainment in a bar that it is impinging on their rights to sit, drink and watch the boys play play their mobiles. Who would want to be a bar owner!

we should start a review thread... I had 3 pay to play, 1 kevin cute little boyman, massaged for .5 hour transitioned into whole body, oily cock slipped into my hole..... then after he finished... kissed, and I fucked him. didn't take me long to finish. asked 2k (gave him some extra) I will do him again. Viet/thai boy, beautiful thin man, big cock, verse (I do everything! make you happy). In a big hurry, Your cock too big, no fuck me! I fuck you. hurry hurry, fake cum, out of here. (taxi money? no) I did some coaching but paid. Dave older thin nice cock. passionate top 1500. another dave free (35 looks 25) only likes older men. nice sized cock, compact soccer player body. great kisser, cuddle muffin, 2 hours of kissing cuddling nice slow fuck with hard ending in my hole, more cuddling. Bob -20 something top, morning fuck on way to work. pretty much in fuck leave. free. "A" free 35 thai national on vacation from France. only likes older. great body, nice sized cock, eager, kisser, versatile. flip fucked. want a repeat before he goes back to france to work. Bird - 22 (lies on profile as 26) in military. ex muscle builder. should be in Tawan. beautiful body, just the right masculine muscle, hairy legs, ass, up the happy trail to center of chest, perfect hairy pits (I love a little hair on my tops) . never ending French kisser. only likes older (never been with younger guy). looking for another older man to be his BF (previous BF was a white hair 70s). good top, fucked, cum, kept fucking until came again. likes to lay naked and kiss. then out for dinner, happy easy going talkative. we did 2 nights. he is the reason I was sore condom too dry on first night talked him into BB second night. if anyone wants a BF he is a keeper message me Ill pass it on if you want. one more year in military. gave him some sugar each night to help him along. (only pay 4500/month in military - has Motorcycle payment to his ex farang BF) may post pictures in the picture friendly area...

o Gee, another one swearing at me ! I have it good so include those royalties in your next "tuck" as boys may use it better than me you will, rest assured, it was fun to see you after all those years and it's always fun to do bar hopping with other members. Only question is when I will be there but working on my next year plans as year without visiting Thailand twice is year lost

I had a great time finally meeting you Vinapu - I truly enjoyed myself after waiting all of these years. Yes, we had SO much to talk about. I left with many good memories and a greater understanding of who KFC is. :>)) Vinapu, thanks to you - I have since used your patented "vinapu tuck" - please be on the lookout for the royalty payment via Venmo. I see how this 'vinapu tuck' can definitely lead to a 'vinapu fuck' of the offed guy. and, I have to say that your stamina is quite impressive - soo many per day!!! Bravo!! I hope to hang out with you the next time you pass through Pattaya - even in a group setting with your enlarged fan club :>))

probably two helicopters from the same production line.

Day 4 Morning fun was spoiled by alarm in the phone, V was supposed to leave at 7 in order to go to his work. Today I’m leaving for Pattaya, just for 1 day. It was planned long ago when I heard rumors HC may be there, not knowing that by sheer luck he will be brought by my friend to Bangkok. Other reason was that I promised bkkmfj I will see him whenever I will be in Pattaya. For many years we exchanged messages o the forum , he was one who steered me to my first ever 4 hands massage in Guy Spa, long closed shop in Sukhumvit soi 23 so I was keen to see finally face behind the nick and name. Since I was just one day my apologies I did not signal to aussie_ and gaybutton I will be coming to Pattaya. While packing I was curious how my friend and HC went along overnight and hoped to satiate my curiosity over breakfast in Unesco with both. Line message came soon , “see you at breakfast at 8.30, HC already left this morning “. This was bit surprising as he knew I will be going to Pattaya by taxi this morning and I’m not some stranger to him but if he preferred comfort of bus , fine with me , no offense taken. Perhaps he was too excited with tip from my friend and eager to spent it thought I. As it turned out later , I did not miss mark at all.. We had nice and quite long talk at Unesco and then in my room , I left some items with him as one doesn’t need much for just a day and at 11 went down to meet my driver services of whom I booked yesterday just by being stopped by him along Surwong with taxi to Pattaya proposal. We also agreed on 1200 baht price. There was no need for me to take taxi but I decided that this trip I will see how rich people are travelling in style so budgeted for it. I must say that despite cost difference - taxi 1200 versus 225 = 140 (bus) +75 to get to Swampy +10 for baht bus in Pattaya I liked speed and comfort . We left Raya at 11.15 and at 1 pm he was already turning into Boyztown. Money well spent , specially in view that I live walk distance from airport and taxi would cost me roughly the same, Still I’m not losing sight of fact that those 975 more could be better spent on some boy. On my way I Lined both HC and bkkmfj that I’m on my way. HC asked if I will see him so I invited him for 5 pm. for some short time fun. And reported to bkkmfj I should be free around 7-7.30. I got myself comfortable at Copa, took shower and went to Paradise Spa in next soi to get massage by Wit, another guy I saw quite a few times. He was both happy and surprised to see me, become sad when I told him I’m just 1 day and even more sad when to his overnight suggestion I responded they I may have other plans but I brightened his day asking what time he starts work tomorrow and learning it’s 10 am I promised to see him for another massage. Massage 500 and I tipped him fully deserved 1500, my normal rate for 1.5 hr. massage. Then I went for an early dinner or late lunch and took stroll along Beach Rd where I noticed visible increase in number of tourists compared to May which is good news but seeing that sign for Alt Heidelberg restaurant was taken down made me sad since if there was any place in Asia cooking like my Mom, God let Her rest in peace , it was there. HC showed exactly at 5 and what I noticed right away , in comparison to yesterday, was visible change of mood and for better. Yesterday he seemed withdrawn , at least when I saw him over that dinner in Icon Siam which he spent glued to his phone. Atop of MahaNakhon it was only bit better. Obviously my friend made him happy thought I. Did not take long for me to learn why as he mentioned very generous tip with beaming smile. He told me what he did with money confirming my morning suspicions that he was keen to leave early to spend it. It was like he was freed from very heavy burden and that feeling was in plain view. It's for my friend to comment whether that tip was earned and deserved but it was obvious that he did very good job lifting HC spirits which I let him know by Line as soon as HC left. Good deeds can’t be kept in secret. Sensing that change of mood and mindful of my feeling that my adoration to HC is one sided street I decided to utilize newly acquired asset i.e. his visible happiness and asked him for treat he did not award me in 2 meets we had before – a kiss. YESSSSSSSSSSSS ! First was kind of fast and shy but repeat come right away and it was kind of proper one. “My friend trained you well “ was my thought, LOL. With mood set before we even undressed rest of meeting was very pleasant and before I even said anything he enquired about long time tonight to which I happily agreed. Shortly after he left there was message from bkkmfj that he is in hotel’s verandah so I rushed down and finally after all those years ( I guess our first PM exchange on forum was in 2013 or 2014) we shook our hands . Lots to talk about , from ancient happening right to the goings today. Around 10 pm we switched venue and went to BBB for a show. Stage was full of boys , fully dressed , only few bare chested. There was another guy whose look I liked so I had an opportunity to demonstrate to bkkmfj my ‘vinapu tuck ‘ forcing red note inside that lucky boy jeans or rather briefs hidden in them. I asked mamasan about dress code and he told us it what boss wants and boys have freedom to take shirt off or remain clothed. Strange thing for boy go-go bar but it is what it is. Show was quite long and dynamic , mostly thanks to B-Boys troupe, Plenty of cocks visible and for a tip , touchable. At midnight we settled bin for drinks, bkkmfj went home and I grabbed HC waiting in the soi and both of us trekked to my room in Copa. My second long time with guy I admire. None of us wasted time. I extracted another kiss , HC knowing I’m returning to BKK tomorrow secured that I will take him for my remaining 4 days there at 4000 a day. Exactly mid way between my offer and what he expected. Truth to be told this is what I was counting for going to Pattaya this morning. He even volunteered that if I bring other guy , he may wait in his friend’s room in Silom area. All in, embracing HC I considered my day well spent with those kisses as an unexpected bonus . And so was him as he mentioned his luck of meeting my friend yesterday and me today. We will see how he will manage that luck I thought at end of day 4.