Leaderboard

On one side the tourists complain about how boring JC is as there is nothing to do but sit, drink and watch the boys play their mobiles On the other side the expats complain when there is entertainment in a bar that it is impinging on their rights to sit, drink and watch the boys play play their mobiles. Who would want to be a bar owner!

While I speak to many bar owners in Jomtien Complex each week, I'm not one of them. I am just a regular in a couple of the bars. I do however think it's fair for me to comment on why Jomtien Complex is failing to reach it's potential as a bigger destination, as Boyz Town and Sunee once were. When a bar in Jomtien Complex has a party, other bar owners go along, buy drinks, and "support" each other. It's all fake. It's a peacekeeping act that doesn't work and frankly shocks me. I have watched this shit for years. Last night, 14/12/22, BC Bar had their turn for party. It wasn't important really. Just a staff member who was celebrating a birthday. As with many staff members birthdays, this has to destroy the whole Complex for the entire night. Any new tourist will likely never return. Some bars take a moment to think about the surrounding businesses. Not Bill, and not BC Bar. The same can be said about Sun Bar (Sun), Dragon (Laron), ect ect. The "stage" with the screamers on was outside of the bar facing down the main street, just too piss every singly person off who didn't want to hear it. The only safe heaven was Double Shot. Behind the stage. Not sure who wants to listen to drunk pensioners screaming "country road" at 8:30pm while they are trying to bar fine a boy from a bar 30 meters away? (My friends complaint to me). From 8pm, the volume was sickening. I had a LINE message from a staff member at 4T bar complaining about his headache. I had one too, and I was sitting inside at cocka2 bar. For boys who can't escape the sickening volume of shrieking pigs on a microphone, because they are required to stay at work, I feel they should be compensated. Until a time these bar owners start behaving like adults, and understand that their tourist money "bread and butter" have no interest in some Thai boys birthday, but want to spend money on drinks, bar fine boys and enjoy their holiday in Jomtien Complex. They are destined to fail. There is my rant. Grow up guys. Bill might have been the issue last night, but the rest of them know who they are.

Day 5 I could use more steamed night I thought in the morning but still was very happy I nailed long time with object of my silent adoration, LOL .At least he was quite clingy and did not complain about me disturbing his sleep like last time in May. Again I noticed he is attached to his phone, “ today’s youngsters” I sighted when I noticed at night he went to the toilet and took his phone with him. On another hand I thought it was considerate he did not turn it on in the bed . Copa doesn’t have breakfast so we went to BayView restaurant for first meal of the day and after that HC went to his room to pack, promising to be back at noon. I went to Paradise remembering I promised Wit to have another massage with him , on my way stopped at taxi booth by ‘metal tables ‘ restaurant and ordered taxi to Bangkok for noon at 1300, paid 300 there and 1000 payable to driver I was told. Wit did not show up so I went to my room to pack up, Lined him ‘ where you are ?”, “I slept in” answer come and was very disappointed when I told him I will be leaving at 12. ‘ Come to say good bye “ he asked. Since I did not have much to pack I went for a stroll to Tukcom and returned by way of Sunee Plaza of course completely empty at that hour but I just wanted to get some fresh air from there. Returning I stopped by Paradise to say good bye and consoled Wit with news I will be back in 2 weeks, he even walked me to the hotel where I found taxi waiting already, good 15 minutes before noon. HC showed up at 12 on the dot, I must command him not only for his good looks but also for being always on time, he must have drop or two of Swiss blood in him. Endearing to me as I know and observe difference between say, 4 and 4.05. It took 2 hours exactly to get to Furama Sathorn which since December trip become my favorite hotel in the Silom area. Big rooms with balconies , breakfast included , close to Chong Nonsi station. I was greeted with news of upgrade, their system probably noticed my recent loyalty and it turned out to be two steps up upgrade as I got a room with separate living room and bedroom . Since we were two and stay was 4 days I asked for 2 door cards, just in case. And nobody blinked and eye when they asked if I want 1 or 2 beds in bedroom and answer was obvious one. We went to eat something at modest Thai place in front of hotel , then HC asked if he can heave some sleep so I left him alone and went to Arena for massage greeted there by Art , the mamasan known to me since 3rd Crusade I think. About 10 guys , all muscular hunks so I had problem of picking one but went for biggest smile. Massage 800 for 1.50hr, I tipped 1500 and session was bordering on fantastic with both massage and afters. When I returned to the room HC was still asleep – I did not know I was so active last night that exhausted him to that extend but it was fine with me. He waked up just when I felt hungry and suggested soi 4 for a dinner , idea I liked so we went to G’Bangkok for my schnitzel and some Thai dish for him. It turned out he is friend with some guys from Banana Club across the soi so after dinner we went there to have some beers and drinks with his friends and when time came we went inside for a show and more drinks. Boys there are more on twinky and next boy side but I having HC beside me I did not pay that much attention to who is available but noticed one guy previously from New Twilight there. Since I tipped him there in May I repeated my “vinapu tuck ‘ with red note in Banana Club as well. We returned to hotel bit past midnight and after all those beers and drinks we were on quite jolly and possibly when walking and talking, loud side, he, he. Not a bad end to day 5. Room at Furama Sathorn, 6148 for 4 days , breakfast for 2 included

I'm pleased that this issue has been raised. When I was a regular at Ambiance in Boyztown, a major concern became the prevalence of all-night parties- street parties- which apparently demanded the utilisation of huge speakers suitable for stadiums outside the hotels and bars. These parties weren't popular- the number of attendees was never above thirty or so- but among other business-owners , they caused anger. Not only were we residents at the hotels denied sleep, bars like Panorama were emptied of customers as those who wanted to chat with the guys or with friends were unable able to do so owing to the deafening noise. I recall seeing potential punters arrive at the Pattaya 2nd Road end , hearing the noise, and moving elsewhere. BT was built fifty years ago by bar-owners working together and attracting punters to an area which had different bars, encouraging bar-hopping. That co-operation ended two decades ago and it became every bar for itself. We all saw the inevitable consequences. I hope the JC doesn't follow suit.

This sounds really miserable. And I bet the birthday boy would have much rather had a small cash gift he could have spent at a nightclub with his real friends once he finished his shift.

I was also in JC last night. What an awful night it was. We were sat in Divarium from about 8 p.m. and that “noise” was already in full swing. It was 3 bars up the street but things became completely intolerable when that dump “The Palace”, next door to Divarium also started up. Endless screeching Katoys in the street. Not even in the bar. It was as if they were trying to outdo each other. We too had to flee to a quieter part of Jomtien Complex. Memo to self…avoid an evening in JC when anyone is having a “party”.

I arrived in Zag at 21:50; was told the show starts at 22:30; decided to take a 2nd look at the massage places. Seemed like in the aftrnn: no pdstrians; 4-5 boys sitting in front of each parlor; again none appealing. The boys were less persistently lively than at Jomtien, most didnt bother to get out of their chairs. I wld rtrn to that soi after midnight, and the next day and night; same same. Back at Zag, the cabaret show takes place on the street (see pics below); at times cars and motorbikes passing by the prfrmrs. I took a seat at the side near G-Bar. Bad idea. 15 mnts into the show, G started their outside show, volume drowning Zag's. Apparently business relations deteriorated since Emiel's rprt, and so much for the non-competitive ethic we heard about in J. I moved to the other side. It was a good show, with 5 alternating ladyboys dancing, dressed up glittering, mouths synchronized with the soundtrack. A little after 23:00 the show moved inside, and improved. Two things changed. One, the inside isnt a bar setting but rather a dance club around a stage. Two, a troupe of 7 masculine sexy shirtless boys appeared, dancing professionally in sync btw the singing bits. A lot of energy in the air, with patrons dancing clapping shouting. At intervals, the 7 boys mingled shortly with the crowd. All this lasted till 02:00. Given the deafening volume, at one point I took a waiter outside to inquire about what was uppermost in my mind: gays or straights? Offable? Apparently he wasnt sure as to their prfrncs, but yes - offable. How much? 10,000(!) split btw bar and boy. That was so ovbviously a lie, which meant that he perceived me as an out-of-his-depth farang... (-: Back inside I noticed two farangs who were obviously well aquainted with the place, just as they were leaving. I followed them outside, and one of them was most obliging with info. Yes, at least 6 of the 7 were gays. Yes, offable. Fees: to the bar 1500; to the boy - negotiable, prbbly 1500-2000. Seizing the opportunity, I asked him also about something that intrigued me: how cld the bar's business model be sustainble? There was no enterance/cover charge and beer was 160 b; how cld they afford such a 3 and a half hours extravaganza? He said that expenses were lower than I thought. For examples: the bar bought the beer for just 60 b; prfmrs paid for their own glittering costumes; staff relied mainly on tips; etc. Even though, it seems to me quite a feat if only for maintenance and utilities, not to mention actually making money.... Anyway, back to the boys. Given the noise level, it was impossible to really engage anyone as they huddled close to the ear of one patron or another. All I wanted was to get a wtsp/line nmbr. However, I m not at my best in the wee small hours, so I let it drop. Nvrtheless, I had a great time, the format being so dfrnt from Pattaya, and the boys - much more appealing. The next night, per Emiel's inspiration, I went to G bar. It's much smaller; the cabaret - good but less so than Zag's; max 20 patrons cmprd to at least 80. Again there was a 15 mnts volume overlap. M not sorry I went there, both to show support as Emiel had suggested,and bcs of a very talented ladyboy (actually ladyman by his appearance) mimicking Japanese song acts. After the show ended, I joined the inside-party at Zag. Again srprsd there was no cover charge or even a mndtry 1st drink, I donated 300 b. In both bars I didnt see any staff sitting with patrons, or appealing to me. I m glad the next day a masseur called Adam from Blue Dolphin solicited me on grndr. Gave me the best erotic body massage I rmmbr, for 1500 b.

I'm with gayinpattaya with that ( I run out of 'likes' for today). Deafening noise if not an entertainment , is nuisance for all ( Ok , colmx and few others excepted ) and health hazard for those who must work close to source. This brought memories of one night I had in The Venue. There was party in Qmark bar but noise was unbearable and I know thing or two about the noise as my windows are facing 16 lane highway , in summer I sleep with open windows. Around 2 am I resigned trying to sleep and went down to the source, honestly it seemed volume was lower in bar than in the room. It was good decision because waiter asked me if I sleep alone tonight and I answered ' no, with you" so it ended well but to this day I take great care of not making bookings in that part of Complex (Zing is pretty quite, sheltered from that bullshit by row of buildings)

I'm not sure I explained it well enough. Whatever those terrible sounds were last night that forced most of us out of the street, it most certainly wasn't entertainment. People had headaches. My ears were hurting from the high pitch screeching. I don't think many people here would object to some quality, good, entertainment. Whatever that was last night could be used as a torture technique.

From The Smithsonian By Lauren Keith From the glint of Tutankhamun’s solid gold death mask, striped with bands of royal blue glass, to the famous pyramids and the weathered Great Sphinx of Giza, the magnetic lure of Egypt is eternal. Images of this ancient culture have long been both ubiquitous and instantly recognizable. But 2022, a year marked by a series of monumental Egyptian anniversaries, ushered in a revival of Egyptomania not seen since British archaeologist Howard Carter opened the tomb of Tutankhamun 100 years ago. A cradle of civilization, the lands surrounding the Nile River Delta witnessed some of the earliest developments in writing, art, religion and government. The ancient culture’s story spreads far beyond Egypt’s modern-day borders, spanning more than 3,000 years. (For context, the reign of Cleopatra, in the first century B.C.E., is closer to 2022 than the construction of the Great Pyramid around 2500 B.C.E.) It is humanity’s story, a shared narrative of societal progress. The museum's design was inspired by the pyramids. Courtesy of the Grand Egyptian Museum Egypt’s riches have drawn colonizers and foreign treasure hunters since as early as 332 B.C.E., when Alexander the Great founded his namesake city on the delta. Wars with history’s biggest empires—the Romans, the Persians, the Arabs, the Ottomans and finally the British—have filled the 22 centuries since; in 1798, Napoleon also led a comparatively short French invasion that led to the discovery of the Rosetta Stone, which opened Western Europe’s eyes to Egypt and started an undammable flow of ancient heritage leaving the country. As the long-awaited Grand Egyptian Museum (GEM) prepares to open its doors in Giza in 2023, some archaeologists, Egyptologists and museumgoers are calling for Egyptian antiquities to be returned to their homeland. Arriving amid a growing push to decolonize American and European museums, these campaigns ask a crucial question: Who gets to claim these artifacts as their own? “People were asleep for years, and now they’re awake,” says Egyptologist Zahi Hawass. “I’m sure [Westerners] have nightmares of what happened: taking the history and the heritage of Africa to their countries with no right. There is no right for them to have this heritage in their country at all.” Continues with photos https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/who-gets-to-tell-the-story-of-ancient-egypt-180981263/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

I stay there last 2 nights of my trip I returned from mid-Nov. It at mouth of Patpong 1 , just across he street so great location for Patpong 2 boy bars as well as Mooonlight and Tawan. Walk to DJ station manageable 5-7 mins. No problem with visitors day or night. Room big and well appointed but was missing two things I like to have - kettle and safety deposit box. It looks one must use one on reception, not an issue for me at end of trip. Kettle problem I solved as always - I carry immense heater to make my tea on every trip. Here some pictures , sorry about the mess, there were two of us and I did not include my companion in 'visitors' category above, LOL

I don't know why the photo is rotated when it is uploaded. It was perfectly straight on my phone! 9-Teen Massage is a brand new massage shop manned entirely by guys at end of Silom Road after Soi 6. It's impressive how the owners spent money to do up the place. I went this afternoon. I didn't bother with choosing a guy. The manager just assigned me an average looking guy. Thai. Looks to be in 30s. I chose aroma + head neck shoulder massage VIP package for 980 baht which comes with large room with en suite bathroom. VIP room was on top floor so had to walk up 4 steps but the stairs were brand new and wide unlike the narrow steps in most shops. Massage guy stayed clothed throughout so I knew that he was straight. Excellent massage skills. He asked for 500 baht for happy ending and I agreed. After cumming, massage guy continued massage on my shoulder, neck and head. Felt very refreshed after massage. Worth going if you prefer new place. But it definitely is not a full service gay massage place like Arena.

I think I've said it before in some other thread. This tendency to reach for loud 'entertainment' (LE for short) is a sign of failing business. It's when sales turnover is poor that the managers resort to LE, not realizing that it will only accelerate the loss of customers. WHy do managers resort to LE when sales are poor? Because in the villages where they come from, it works! In rural places, quiet is the default. Boredom is another. When a fair comes to town, its bright lights and thumping music draw people in. The louder the better so that people far away can hear that a fair is in town, and to relieve boredom, they make their way over. A low-key fair playing lounge music or soft jazz would be commercial suicide. These village boys now promoted to bar managers by absent owners don't know the first thing about business, marketing, branding, customer satisfaction, etc. Most of all, they don't know what they don't know: that customers from the rich urban world have different preferences and priorities from rural Thais.

Noise was what made me give up on staying in the Boyztown hotels many years ago. I have since always chosen Jomtien. In July, I noticed the same crazy noise from one or more Jomtien bars but fortunately I was staying in Zing Resort. I could still hear the noise in my room, but at that distance, it was muted enough to not be a problem. The following day, I met someone staying at the Venue, and he was livid.

Yes, that would be my claim. I would not go higher than 1500 for short time and the boy would have to be quite spectacular to get me to give him that much. I realize that many going to Thailand for a 1 or 2 week holiday are willing to spend more to get what they came for, but there are limits. 1500 would be mine. That is speaking for myself. If others are willing to pay more and have different limits, that's their decision. As for me, if bars really are charging those kinds of prices and the boys want 1500+, they're going to have to offer much more and a lot better than the same as they've been offering for the last 20 years. "I never get lucky with sex. For me, a threesome is jerking off with both hands." - Rodney Dangerfield

I'd give them some credit, some of them are quite smart with money. On another hand I know a few educated people, even in position in financial industry who are perhapas good with other people's money but not in theirs

One of the joys of riding the BTS and MRT is imagining what those masked guys look like without it. I have yet to ride the trains without finding at least a few in every car--frequently quite a few more.

Just as those of us who have recently traveled to Thailand, we're all too familiar with inflation in our home countries. Guys we meet--or become reacquainted with from earlier trips--are likewise dealing with rising costs. As Vinapu observes, they're making decisions on how they can compensate by raising their fees. And why not? Aren't we receiving salary increases for the services we provide. We always reserve the right to reject their asking price if we feel it's far out of whack. I think that's what I like about massage shops. We get a choice of service provider. If there's no minimum price in effect, we're free to negotiate in advance or tip at the end. In the majority of shops in Silom (with notable exceptions) the latter arrangement applies, particularly those on Silom Soi 6 where I had many very satisfactory experiences. For the moment, there's something for everybody in Thailand. If you want a show and a parade of guys, they're available. Host bars also exist and of course there's always the apps. Sure, there are other destinations but I don't believe they can provide choices in such abundance.

Like with all rising prices, first we are screaming crazy , then gradually we get more accommodating. When I came first to Thailand in 2001 , 1000 baht for short time was shocking extortion. While 3000 for short time is racket , some people are willing to pay it acting on logic that is better to overpay and be happy because of boy performance, looks and body than pay 1000 and be happy only because 2000 was saved. Saying that I agree that often performance and fee charged have not relation at all. On another hand certain types are scarce on the market and with market logic they warrant premium. If one is cursed , like me , with being fond of hunky built guys may face choice of cold bed of empty wallet on some nights. Third consideration is length of stay. Resident has is easy as has time to search and even more important has time to built pool of available guys , not to mention getting volume discount. Travellers on longer stay had similar advantage but those who are on 1-2 weeks vacations need to move fast and often decide yes or no between lonely and sweaty night. I'm not even going into discussion bar vs. apps but with market forces at work there's danger that bars gradually disappear which we already see but apps will become more costly. Even in some recent reports we hear that some guys start asking for more and there are those who don't budge. On my last tip I was surprised that one of bar guys I offed quite a few times in the past was holding firm and did not yield so obviously guy have their own calculations.

Am I reading this correctly? They are charging 1500 just to take a boy off? And then 1500-2000 for the boy after paying that fee? In other words around 3000 baht for a short time off? And that's after paying for drinks and "drink for boy"? For me, that's not no, but hell no! The prices some of these bars, including Pattaya and Bangkok, are coming up with these days are unheard of and, in my opinion, just crazy. Maybe some people are willing to pay those kinds of prices, but not me. I'll stick with the apps.

I add Wat Sien close to Nong Nooch tropical gardens with reportedly only famous Terracota Warrior from Xian outside of China gifted to Thailand by Chinese.

Day 4 Morning fun was spoiled by alarm in the phone, V was supposed to leave at 7 in order to go to his work. Today I’m leaving for Pattaya, just for 1 day. It was planned long ago when I heard rumors HC may be there, not knowing that by sheer luck he will be brought by my friend to Bangkok. Other reason was that I promised bkkmfj I will see him whenever I will be in Pattaya. For many years we exchanged messages o the forum , he was one who steered me to my first ever 4 hands massage in Guy Spa, long closed shop in Sukhumvit soi 23 so I was keen to see finally face behind the nick and name. Since I was just one day my apologies I did not signal to aussie_ and gaybutton I will be coming to Pattaya. While packing I was curious how my friend and HC went along overnight and hoped to satiate my curiosity over breakfast in Unesco with both. Line message came soon , “see you at breakfast at 8.30, HC already left this morning “. This was bit surprising as he knew I will be going to Pattaya by taxi this morning and I’m not some stranger to him but if he preferred comfort of bus , fine with me , no offense taken. Perhaps he was too excited with tip from my friend and eager to spent it thought I. As it turned out later , I did not miss mark at all.. We had nice and quite long talk at Unesco and then in my room , I left some items with him as one doesn’t need much for just a day and at 11 went down to meet my driver services of whom I booked yesterday just by being stopped by him along Surwong with taxi to Pattaya proposal. We also agreed on 1200 baht price. There was no need for me to take taxi but I decided that this trip I will see how rich people are travelling in style so budgeted for it. I must say that despite cost difference - taxi 1200 versus 225 = 140 (bus) +75 to get to Swampy +10 for baht bus in Pattaya I liked speed and comfort . We left Raya at 11.15 and at 1 pm he was already turning into Boyztown. Money well spent , specially in view that I live walk distance from airport and taxi would cost me roughly the same, Still I’m not losing sight of fact that those 975 more could be better spent on some boy. On my way I Lined both HC and bkkmfj that I’m on my way. HC asked if I will see him so I invited him for 5 pm. for some short time fun. And reported to bkkmfj I should be free around 7-7.30. I got myself comfortable at Copa, took shower and went to Paradise Spa in next soi to get massage by Wit, another guy I saw quite a few times. He was both happy and surprised to see me, become sad when I told him I’m just 1 day and even more sad when to his overnight suggestion I responded they I may have other plans but I brightened his day asking what time he starts work tomorrow and learning it’s 10 am I promised to see him for another massage. Massage 500 and I tipped him fully deserved 1500, my normal rate for 1.5 hr. massage. Then I went for an early dinner or late lunch and took stroll along Beach Rd where I noticed visible increase in number of tourists compared to May which is good news but seeing that sign for Alt Heidelberg restaurant was taken down made me sad since if there was any place in Asia cooking like my Mom, God let Her rest in peace , it was there. HC showed exactly at 5 and what I noticed right away , in comparison to yesterday, was visible change of mood and for better. Yesterday he seemed withdrawn , at least when I saw him over that dinner in Icon Siam which he spent glued to his phone. Atop of MahaNakhon it was only bit better. Obviously my friend made him happy thought I. Did not take long for me to learn why as he mentioned very generous tip with beaming smile. He told me what he did with money confirming my morning suspicions that he was keen to leave early to spend it. It was like he was freed from very heavy burden and that feeling was in plain view. It's for my friend to comment whether that tip was earned and deserved but it was obvious that he did very good job lifting HC spirits which I let him know by Line as soon as HC left. Good deeds can’t be kept in secret. Sensing that change of mood and mindful of my feeling that my adoration to HC is one sided street I decided to utilize newly acquired asset i.e. his visible happiness and asked him for treat he did not award me in 2 meets we had before – a kiss. YESSSSSSSSSSSS ! First was kind of fast and shy but repeat come right away and it was kind of proper one. “My friend trained you well “ was my thought, LOL. With mood set before we even undressed rest of meeting was very pleasant and before I even said anything he enquired about long time tonight to which I happily agreed. Shortly after he left there was message from bkkmfj that he is in hotel’s verandah so I rushed down and finally after all those years ( I guess our first PM exchange on forum was in 2013 or 2014) we shook our hands . Lots to talk about , from ancient happening right to the goings today. Around 10 pm we switched venue and went to BBB for a show. Stage was full of boys , fully dressed , only few bare chested. There was another guy whose look I liked so I had an opportunity to demonstrate to bkkmfj my ‘vinapu tuck ‘ forcing red note inside that lucky boy jeans or rather briefs hidden in them. I asked mamasan about dress code and he told us it what boss wants and boys have freedom to take shirt off or remain clothed. Strange thing for boy go-go bar but it is what it is. Show was quite long and dynamic , mostly thanks to B-Boys troupe, Plenty of cocks visible and for a tip , touchable. At midnight we settled bin for drinks, bkkmfj went home and I grabbed HC waiting in the soi and both of us trekked to my room in Copa. My second long time with guy I admire. None of us wasted time. I extracted another kiss , HC knowing I’m returning to BKK tomorrow secured that I will take him for my remaining 4 days there at 4000 a day. Exactly mid way between my offer and what he expected. Truth to be told this is what I was counting for going to Pattaya this morning. He even volunteered that if I bring other guy , he may wait in his friend’s room in Silom area. All in, embracing HC I considered my day well spent with those kisses as an unexpected bonus . And so was him as he mentioned his luck of meeting my friend yesterday and me today. We will see how he will manage that luck I thought at end of day 4.

Just in on BBC: the eldest daughter of the Thai king, Princess Bajrakitiyabha, apparently collapsed and has been rushed to hospital. Few details so far, but the BBC correspondent points out the unusual statement describing her to be "stable to a certain extent". Some mention in the report about possible impact on succession, though obviously this is rather premature and speculative.

So where were the Police on the night? Why weren’t they anywhere to be seen? The cops have often been in evidence over the last week at closing time to ensure no after hours drinking….so where were they when these terrible disturbances were going on? Surely they are illegal at the volume heard from the two bars simultaneously the other night? We are frequently told that Jomtien is a RESIDENTIAL area and that is the reason Gogo bars are not allowed. If so, why is this awful racket permitted? The regularity of it (especially at “The Palace”) surely does more harm to residents than a few Gogo bars ever would.

somewhat off topic, went over to NANA plaza to explore and compare to 2016. the area continues to get more indian and arab ethinic shops with people now rolling and selling joints on the street. the plaza street seems to have lost some businesses. BUT if you go into Nana plaza proper it is definitely a busy well designed punter paradise. This even puts (my memory of) walking street to shame. (A true international draw and better than Silom) my interest in female private parts is somewhat limited, but you guys should check it out. 3 floors of go-go bars and massage shops with food and drink and pot. I was there at 830pm for a 10 minute walk thru and it was doing pretty good (although I don't know how many men were in the go-go bars). Still plenty of lady boys on the street selling. got several offers for 10$ BJ (although the street logistics on that elude me)

I got there about 11ish and almost got run into by a ladyboy singer. So I went thru one of the alleys by Jewel bar and went to BnB bar, across from Sunee bar. Then played snooker at bar next to it. Still had fun but avoided the main soi as my hearing is very sensitive. I don’t like being a killjoy, so I’m used to obnoxious music and think that most of the boys there enjoy it, so let them have their fun. Most of them barely make a living wage anyways. There’s always some more quiet nights that can be enjoyed sitting with boys. I get restless sitting for long so I play pool just to keep moving. And if I’m really in the mood for quit calm I’ll head over to Sunee plaza,lol.

It's a shame that a few idiots ruin the fun for everyone. The front rooms at The Venue would be impossible some nights. When I stayed there in the past I always asked for a back room. I always liked their rooms.

I don't know. It seems it is to prevent trafficking of Filipinos. But he called, talked before, checked, had my info, passport, hotel reservations. Agent at gate said no, no appeal, you are just fucked. It also appears to violate Filipino constitution on clause on freedom to travel. But following constitutions is not really an important thing...

Terms reflect attitude. I wldnt use "demands", bcs a sprmrkt doesnt "demand" prices; it charges them. Legality aside, I view (unforced) sex services as legit. A provider shld b accorded respect as any human being and business. He charges a certain fee, and - as in any business transaction - a potential client may chose whether to pay or to negotiate. Not only in the context of sex service, when I travel to such countries, I prefer to avoid haggling. It's my cntrbution to the re-distribution of wealth btw the dvlpd wrld and the un-dvlpd one.

They have to be called tips because in Thailand the provision of sexual services at a fee is illegal. A reality of which a few may still not be aware. I see your point - but do not fully agree with the comparisons. At a restaurant the bill for your food and drinks already includes wages for all the staff. Many waiters hope for something extra in the form of a tip but have no guarantee. And clearly no waiter is in a position to negotiate a tip. But most will still be earning a liveable wage. If they find it's not, then they move on to another restaurant or elsewhere. I do not know what basic wage, if any, the boys get from working in the various types of bar. But I'm pretty sure that it does not compare to most other service businesses as it will be far from a liveable amount. So they are not only expected to generate income for the bar from inflated drinks prices and off fees, they have to earn their own "tips" on top. I also have no doubt that most of the boys discuss what tips they get from customers and this leads to a minimum expectation. But like the waiter, they have no guarantee. Whatever a boy may ask for, it's a negotiable amount dependant on quite a number of factors. As you write, it is merely an "expected" amount but to a considerable extent it is dependent on all the various aspects of supply and demand. Same now with the apps. I do agree that the situation was different 30 - 40 years ago though. In those times all the boys westerners came across in the gogo and host bars were Thais from very poor upcountry families. There were no mobile phones and fancy clothes so much of what they "earned" went back to their families. "Tips" were very much dependent on a boy's attractiveness to customers and how well he performed during the off. In my experience "tips" were never discussed in advance and I can recall only one occasion (of many!) when a boy asked for a bit more than offered. My comments are based almost exclusively on Bangkok because I have little experience of offs in Pattaya.

This is SO true. Now that I live here I can take it slow and decide with whom I want to make my regulars. Prior to retiring here - I felt rushed to take an off because each day that I did not was a day closer to when my flight to return back to Europe was approaching. So, I tried to maximize my acquisitions during my vacation. Now, I am lucky if I have 3 per week and that is ok with me - no rush, better selection, and less pressure. For the monetary part, I pay on the upper acceptable range as I have got to know many of the guys and I check up on them regularly and their income streams are VERY erratic. It is VERY rare that they "get lucky" every single day. Sometimes they don't have a customer for 4 days. I definitely feel for them.

I think it's possible, all boils to negotiating. Longer time , lower per day fee may be. It may also depend on who initiated idea , if it was boy , we are in better negotiating position

I did it twice in the past pre-covid and paid 3000 per day, in one case it was what boy asked for , in another what I volunteered and he approved i.e took the money with smile. 2000 plus expenses sounds about right as it's long time Pattaya rate on another hand if boy is with us whole day it also means it available for carnal pleasures all the time so 2000 will be bit on lower side. There was reason I preferred to be generous with guy in question so I agreed to meet him mid way. Was it right call? as we learn soon , not necessary.

you are telling me guy in navy shirt may miss two front teeth ?

not on the soil of LOS.

Isn't that the point? What someone tips is their choice. Naturally everyone - be they rich or poor or more likely somewhere in between - has their own priorities, desires and limitations. If my friend A is happy tipping 1,500 and friend B 3,000, that's entirely a matter for them in my view - not me. If both are happy with the outcome, why should we on this Board keep on all but challenging those who tip higher or lower than we might do? I've read posts about this from guys who say that the offs need to earn a living and X amount is too low, just as I have (much more frequently) other posts from guys who write a larger tip distorts the market! But isn't that precisely what it is? A market. A market for services. And as with all offering services, pricing is dependent on the market. I understand that newbies do like to have some information. But so much has been quite regularly posted, finding it by taking a few minutes of time on the Search engine is surely not an unreasonable request! Or could there be a separate thread limited to discussions on tips and offs?

From Pattaya Mail By Barry Kenyon Last month’s commencement of twice-daily Azur Air charter flights from eleven Russian cities, including Siberia, to U-tapao Airport (near Pattaya) has outpaced all expectations. The provincial airport is processing nearly 5,000 Russian arrivals weekly. These flights are in addition to popular Aeroflot routes from Moscow and other urban centers to Bangkok and Phuket as well as multiple connecting flights from and to the Middle East. Just under one and a half million Russians visited Thailand in pre-pandemic 2019 and many travel experts expect to reach or beat that annual figure as early as January 2023. At least a third will be heading to Pattaya where there are lengthy daily queues at the over-busy immigration bureau to register a local address, extend a holiday stay or seek other services. The neighboring photocopying unit has recently hired more staff to cope with the extra demand. There are many signs that the latest Russian arrivals in Pattaya have different expectations from their predecessors. Mikhail Nazarenko, who runs a Walking Street bar attracting mostly Russian imbibers, said, “Some are tourists anxious for a two-weeks sunshine break from Putin’s grim regime, but others are looking to the long haul including some draft dodgers too.” He cited airline reports that the charter flights to U-tapao are always full, but the return journeys have some vacant seats. Mikhail debunked the myth that Russians here are struggling financially because their credit cards don’t work owing to international sanctions. “Travelling Russians are using credit cards issued abroad, particularly the Middle East and China, while others are arriving with mega cash, especially US dollars, in their hand luggage. There’s also the option for new arrivals in Pattaya to obtain cash from affluent Russian expats already here and repay it by using their banking app to transfer funds to the lender’s Russian account. It’s no problem.” There has also been a surge in the number of Russians seeking proof of address letters from Chonburi immigration bureau which are required to open bank accounts in Thailand. Some Thai banks or managers are very cagey about allowing some foreign nationals to start accounts, because of money-laundering fears, so the more accommodating branches often have long queues during opening hours. There is also substantial Russian interest in long-term visas, such as Elite which offers a five year, multiple-entry stay in return for an initial cash payment of 600,000 baht (about US$18,000), or annual renewals based on retirement or marriage. Applications by Russians for Thai driving licences are also rising, according to the Department of Land Transportation, whilst Russians (unlike Indians or Chinese) can take advantage of the same-day Cambodian visa run which extends their visa-free option for a further 45 days with then another 30 days on application to immigration. Russian vacationers (like UK, EU and USA) can now stay in Thailand for 150 days (45 plus 30 and repeat 45 plus 30)) on a visa-free basis. Restaurants and property agents are brushing up their Russian language marketing materials. Not only are the Russians coming, they’re here in abundance.

Typical Thailand, all about the money honey. Who cares how many Ukrainian children the Russians have raped and murdered, how many hospitals have been bombed. Utterly disgraceful.

There was a "fad" 2 weeks ago that I am told was started by Winnie at Divarium Bar in Jomtien Complex, when boys wanted 1500 ST, after paying bar fines and boy drinks. (2000B+) The boys all spoke to each other, and it was every bar within a few days. Even the soi dogs wanted 1500. It died pretty quick. Most boys are back at 1000 now. 1500 overnight.

Numazu kindly shared with us his journey and experiences travelling with a Brazilian boxer who accompanied him to Thailand as he(Tiago) wanted to study Thai boxing. It was an interesting story, interspersed with other posts on the thread below. I would be interested to hear an update on Tiago's experiences if possible.

those are particularly welcomed

While not knowing whether the prices quoted, from another customer, are correct, I would make the point that these are guys with actual jobs as dancers in the show. Their primary function is to do that, which they do pretty well, and to entertain, rather than to be offed. They could choose not to be offed at all, but work on tips from drinking with customers when not performing. I would say that on my recent trip a couple of nights in Zag were great fun. The place really creates a great party atmosphere and the staff, performers and waiters are a big part of that. As 12is12 advised, it is more a gay dance club, thai style with groups standing around tables, where a mix of people go to have fun rather than necessarily hook up, although being a gay club there is also a good chance of that from the other customers, some of whom are freelancers. A good cross section of people from farang couples, thai couples, mixed couples, to a post work night out group from one of the gay massage parlours and a group of guys from Singapore. A lot of flirting with customers and floor staff(as opposed to performers), and if we had wanted "company"to take home at the end of the night we would have had options, from either the customers or staff.

o Gee, another one swearing at me ! I have it good so include those royalties in your next "tuck" as boys may use it better than me you will, rest assured, it was fun to see you after all those years and it's always fun to do bar hopping with other members. Only question is when I will be there but working on my next year plans as year without visiting Thailand twice is year lost

Knowing what we know now it is not that surprising, You lifted him up financially and what counts even more , psychologically. He got wind in his wings and wanted to consume his luck ASAP. He was one piece of happy man that afternoon when I saw him in Pattaya . It was surprising and in a sense , moving, so I had to let you know as his manner of departure was bit odd and you could feel puzzled indeed.

While the start of high season has bought a large number of new faces (tourists) wondering around Jomtien Complex, a majority of people sitting in the complex are expats, at least from my observations of the last week or so. I would estimate 60/40. Speaking for myself and the majority of my friends, when we are in the complex we sit as a group of expats. Occasionally there will be a boyfriend with one or two of us, but not always. What is normally the case is in a bar nearby, our boys are having their own fun with their friends. When I see a guy sitting alone in a bar, it's very rarely someone I recognise as an expat. I normally assume it's a tourist looking for a boy to go sit with. Few expats go to Jomtien Complex to pay bar fines and take boys. That's generally a tourist activity. Speaking personally, I'm an afternoon person. The evening is for dinner and drinks. I would say that it's quite easy to get into a conversation with other expats even as a tourist, you just need to pick the right bar, and know your tribe. If you are British, go to @home bar and chat to someone at Zacks table. If you are Australian, go meet Rob at Cocka2 Bar. He will talk your ear off and be happy to meet you, and introduce you to everyone else there. German? Go to Dolce Vita. Swiss, BuBu Bar, Flemish/Dutch, Doubleshot, ect ect. Most expats prefer to talk in their native language, understandably. As for "making friends"... That will take time. Most expats have quite close-nit groups of friends and not always open to "new people". It's sad to say but there are some very dodgy people around Pattaya. I guess anything worth doing takes time.

Sorry Posted by mistake, b4 cmpltng the fotos.

Yes very true. To be honest i also hired some massage boys from Gindr but after being able to check there were also working from massage shop or a friend from a shop could confirm the boy was ok. I had a funny experience with a massage boy coming from a massage shop in Bangkok last November. Once in my room, he couldn't take my cock more than 10 min "too big too big" and because "you fu.... tooo strong"... Then he shared my id on Gindr with other working boys more used to bottom for strong farangs... I had then quite a good fun having them very curious and excited to try the "strong cock", contacting me on Gindr as "my friend told me you need a very good bottom. I am much better than him, can we meet". I hope none of them took pics...

what next, chip sewn in their buttock readable by our smartphone ? If we want to learn about them why not to buy them a drink and ask those questions while trying to caress them here and there under the table for an additional tip ?

and as a result you earned some Thai, "jai dee", merit with the guys - because 2 of them told me - wow - that falang is so nice he gave us some cookies.... You reminded me of one of our many conversations on how the guys could up-market themselves. One idea is if they could have QR codes on their person - so as they walk by we can snap their QR code and learn more about them, where they work in the Complex, and how to contact them. For us "shy guys" this would be a great way to expand our guy experience(s). As you know, I am a new retiree here - and I have reached out to many fellow falang retirees here and only very few have reacted to meeting up. Most just replied, "sounds like a good idea - I will contact you" - and then weeks and months pass and nothing happens. I believe that the established falang groups are content as they are and are not looking for any new entries. For those sitting alone night after night - I do not know why? It would be great if the people who manage the https://www.gaysupertown.com/ website could organize 1 time per month a meetup and/or bar crawl within the Complex, where the newbies can meet the already established falangs to break the ice and to create some possible new friendships. I know that over in Pattaya in the heterosexual world they often organize bar crawls in Soi Buakhao where the newbies can meet the residents to have a good time and make new friends. I am not aware that there is any such equivalent in the gay communities here in Jomtien and Pattaya. I will wait to respond to this until you post the Double Shot portion of this trip report - as there was definitely horniness in the air!!!!!!!!

Day 0: Brazil on my mind, even in Thailand Needless to say that I have changed some personal information of certain individuals mentioned, due to some weird stalkers in this site. So Brazil had me for itself for a better part of a year and a half during the pandemic. And when you get to know a place for that long on a regular basis, you tend to get to settle on what works for you best, after the initial novelty wears off. After running wild through the famous saunas of Brazil, I’ve actually grown tired of it all, believe it or not. Don’t get me wrong, sex with a variety of beautiful guys will always be on the table for me, but during this time, working remotely in Brazil had me looking for something more substantial, after getting tired of the run-of-the-mill sauna-show-cabine-programa routine. Because of the dire economic circumstances the pandemic has left some of the less fortunate of us, you can find that even more boys are available than usual. Most of them are after money, of course, but I have found that a few of them needed something else. I’ve certainly have met a few very interesting guys, who would not sell themselves in a Brazilian sauna, nor expose themselves in escort websites, but would like to earn a few dollars from you. I found these guys mostly from referrals from other boys, and they appreciate the discretion you give them, not being found out by familiars in saunas or websites, and they will pretty much do anything for you. And then there are those, when I tell them I am going to Europe or Dubai for some work or vacation for a few weeks, ask for just a one-way ticket to the place in question, and they will be more than willing (thrilled in fact) to accompany you during your stay, free of charge (you pay for incidentals of course), and when its time for me to go, they opt to stay in Barcelona or Paris or Dubai or London, where they try to earn the money they were after in the first place (by usually escorting). I am probably responsible for a (not) significant amount of Brazilians ending up in Europe or the Middle East, using this method. And then there’s this Brazilian guy who wanted to Thailand. Let’s call him Tiago. He is 28, European facial features, always bronzed skin, and let’s just say he is from the south of the country. Beautiful, of course, with a MMA fighter's body. Oddly enough, I met him at a Smart Fit Gym in Sao Paulo. He was a personal trainer there, and a working boy introduced me to him in one my visits to his gym. He didn’t work at the sauna in Sao Paulo, nor did he sell himself in the websites. He did, however, belong to a Jiu Jitsu team in Sao Paulo, and did personal training on the side to pay the bills. He has done some MMA fights (20+), but wanted to train in Muay Thai, in Thailand, to expand his resume. He intended to stay for 6 months in Thailand, and has saved up enough for the gym fees and accommodation in his chosen Muay Thai school. What he didn’t have was the airfare to get to Thailand. There has always been a Thailand-Brazil connection I wasn’t aware about till this trip. So during the next few months we talked about it that possibility, in between some dates and gym training with him, of course. Throughout all that he didn’t ask me for any tips during my time with him in Brazil, I guess to sell me the idea that he is trustworthy and worthy of the cost of an air ticket. So when I told him in April that I was thinking about going to Thailand, after a trip to the Middle East, he said that was perfect timing, because that would get him back to Brazil in December, in time for Christmas and the Holidays. He even made himself available for the two weeks before to accompany me with some business in Doha and Dubai, before heading over to Thailand. I told him I’d go the extra mile and take him personally to his Muay Thai gym, which was not in Bangkok, but was a plane ride away. He was excited, and so was I. I was as curious to get to know more about this side of his life, as he was about going. I took him for a test run to a nearby country just to see if we were gonna be good travel buddies. He passed with flying colors. So in the next few weeks we try to get our requirements ready for Thailand. As we were entering Bangkok in mid-June, we didn’t have to do a COVID test to get to enter Thailand, but we still needed to complete the Thai Pass, which was easy enough since we were both vaxxed and boostered and he was able to get official documents and QR codes from the Brazilian health authority after some expected red tape. We still needed COVID tests to get into Qatar, and to complete their version of Thai Pass (Ehteraz), but that was easy to do as well, with my help. I guess after going through all this for almost two years, a few more QR codes was just easy-peasy for me to complete. Two weeks in the Middle East with Tiago was a blast. He was game for a lot of my shenanigans, kept fit in the hotel gyms while I was working, and on my free times, he devoured all the tours and walking that was needed to explore the rich wonders of the area. He was even open to certain sexual exploration if he thought it would be fun to join in, and left me alone if he knew I wanted some alone time. Through it all those two weeks just flew by, and pretty soon it was time to go to Thailand. We were in Dubai to catch our Qatar Airways flight to Bangkok via Doha. I decided to cash-in some Avios points from my British Airways account and buy us Business Class tickets, which was a just a surprisingly cheap 40k each from Dubai to Bangkok. Since our flight was at 5:30 AM, we decided to not sleep the night before and just enjoy Dubai nightlife. After an interesting encounter with some gay Emiratis hanging out at a Starbucks in the JBR district in Dubai, we were on our way to the airport at 3 AM. At the check-in counter, the nice Qatar Airways lady didn’t even check our Thai passes or COVID vaccination cards or any of his documentation. She was flirty and had some tips for Thailand, since she’s been there once. We played along, and got our tickets eventually, if we were cutting it close to boarding time. She ended with bidding us good luck, and she was sure we will have a great time, since we were men. Not sure what that meant but we ended that convo. We were actually the last ones to check in. And the last ones to board. Still, Qatar Airways is famous for its top notch in-flight service, so we were pampered all throughout. I am always amazed by their first class service on one-hour flights. They are still able to get us 3 drinks and some yummy breakfast even with the very short (40-minute) flight from Dubai to Doha: Doha airport on a Sunday was a madhouse. The place was packed. And there were almost no places to sit at the Biz class lounge but we managed. This was indeed a sign the time of COVID restricted travel was over. There was still mask wearing in the airport but that was the only apparent thing I can see that was COVID-related. Since we were super tired from not sleeping the night before, we slept the whole 6 hour and half plane ride from Doha to Bangkok. We got woken up by the flight attendant to say that we had to unrecline our seats for the initial plane descent. Still, five stars to Qatar Airways, we were still served a full dinner while we were descending, since we missed all the in-flight service. As we landed, I got a bit of goosebumps and got excited. I was too tired to actually think about it before, but it just dawned on me now that I was going to be in Thailand after 2 and half years of being away. I started going to Thailand in 2014, and after a few years, the novelty has worn off. But after being away for that long I think the distance was all I needed to recharge my longing for Thailand once again. Tiago, of course, was beside himself. He was super excited to start his life in his new home. Once we were our of the plance we raced to immigration. All this was still super familiar to me, the walk to the immigration desks. We eventually got to the intermediary desks, the Thai Pass station: It was painless, they just needed to see the QR code, passports and COVID vaccine card. They attached stickers to our shirts saying we passed Thai pass and we were on our way to immigration. Since Tiago’s English was not that good, I knew I had to help him with this process (as I did in Doha and Dubai). At the immigration desk, I got my usual 30-day stamp. When it was Tiago’s turn, the immigration officer confirmed if the dates in the immigration card were correct. I said yes, so Tiago got his 90-day stamp. No other documentation was asked. Not the letters of invitation Tiago has from his Muay Thai gym, not our COVID vaccinations, not his yellow fever vaccine he got because that was requirement by the Thai government. Figures. And I always wondered, why people from the USA or UK or some other rich country can only get 30 day tourist stays in Thailand at a time, while Brazilians and Colombians, among others, can get 90 days? After getting our luggage, I immediately get 20,000 baht from the ATM. Then, as a favor, I immediately got Tiago a Thai SIM card from dtac for 90 days, which cost 1100 baht. I didn’t need one since I got Google Fi cell service. I then swiftly guide us to the ground floor to the taxi line, got a taxi ticket from the thingie, found our taxi number and taxi stand, flashed our AirBNB’s address and directions, in Thai, to our driver, and we were on our way, for a 40 minute ride to Silom. Along the way, Tiago commented on how efficient I was with getting things done at the airport. I told him that Thailand was a very familiar place to me, and I still knew how things were done even after years away. Since Tiago was Brazilian and naturally warm, he immediately tried to talk to the driver, who obliged with Tiago’s broken English and answered with some broken English of his own. Noone understood anyone though, since the accents were unfamiliar to each other, even if both were speaking English. Except to me of course, I was used to hearing both accents, so I was there to pretty much smoothen out the conversation. It was pretty entertaining, and pretty soon we arrived at the AirBNB. I chose to stay at an AirBNB for our Bangkok stay, after staying in hotels for two weeks in Doha and Dubai. An AirBNB will afford us many creature comforts that hotels won’t have, like a washer and dryer in the unit (two weeks in the middle east meant we needed clean clothes), two bedrooms for cheap (more on this later), and some basic kitchen stuff if we needed to make something. Also, it’ll give Tiago a glimpse of Thai domestic life that he will be living in pretty soon, something that is not apparent in the insular confines of, say, the Crowne Plaza Lumpini Park, even if I love that hotel sooooo much. It was 9:20 PM by the time we got to the apartment. I knew I wanted to at least check out a boy bar or two, even if we were both tired, so we had to hurry. And Tiago was hungry. So to save time, we showered together (hot water in the unit worked!), and prepared for the night ahead. Since it was raining, I decided to get us a Grab Taxi (which I downloaded on my phone on the way to the apartment), and set up our destination to the first restaurant I thought of that served food really quickly: Happy Beer Garden. As we get off the taxi and before we go in to eat, I look across the street: The end of Soi Twilight, and the beginning of something else. I remember that I when I used to eat at Happy Beer Garden, when it was around 8 or 9 PM, and I’d hear boys shouting at me from across the street, sitting in bars that don’t exist anymore, enticing us to join in the fun once I was done with dinner. Those were amazing times. I wonder if those time will ever come back. Probably not, as Soi Twilight was not coming back. Time to make me new memories. Next post, guess which bar we went to first?