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Guess I'll just count myself as very lucky. The last six years of my life have been the happiest of the preceding 70. Up until that point I'd always considered myself a committed butterfly. I don't concern myself with "true" love. I'm perfectly happy just to have someone simply to love. I don't need a litmus test with which to measure it. We insulate ourselves by the use of language. We become "clients", young men become "professionals." That makes it easier to put the required emotional distance between us. For many, that's a healthy way to look at it. The parties part ways without emotional baggage. I tip my hat to all those who find contentment in their later years without any emotional attachments. At one time I counted myself in that camp. And then a simple smile turned my life on a dime. You may think of me as foolhardy and delusional. So be it. But you can't feel what I feel; know what I know. We all came to Thailand because we sought sexual intimacy we couldn't find at home. Please be tolerant of those of us who discovered emotional intimacy and affection in that same pursuit.

Not all of us came to Thailand "because we sought sexual intimacy we couldn't find at home." Depending on age, yes ... many. My first visit to BKK was in 1992 - 30 years ago. At the time I was not partnered but had a very active sex life in Chicago where I lived. I also traveled to many other countries. Sex wasn't the only reason for these travels, but it was an important 'add on". The only country I've made a first trip to for sex ... was Brazil; Rio de Janeiro. I've never lived in Thailand, but I have lived on other countries. The longest length of time I've lived "abroad" was the 6 years I spent living/working in Mexico; Mexico City. In Mexico I was in my 40s and had sex to a level as if I was starving (and then having been fulfilled!). Sometimes, early-on, I had sex with 4 or 5 guys in a single day. If it walked, I'd fuck it. It was an extraordinary time in my life. As I satisfied the urge I developed repeat encounters with probably a half-dozen guys. They'd just show up on my doorstep, unannounced. I loved each one of them, and there were periods of time when one or two would live / stay with me for varying lengths of time (a weekend, a week, three months, a year, etc.). Mostly young men from the country, making periodic visits to the big city. Not just in Mexico City, but in Acapulco. A couple of them were elite military. Awesome lovers, each. Direct payment of money for sex/companionship wasn't always expected. When it was, it was (at the time) relatively minimal (Peso equivalent of US$20/50 per stay, usually). Though, one was a dental student who needed US$200 for dental school tuition (one of the most fantastic fucks I've ever had). They'd stay with me, I'd give them a place to stay, feed them, do their laundry, buy them some new clothing, a return bus ticket home ... and in two instances money to get them across the border into the USA to join family members (one of whom perished working in the World Trade Center 9/11). "True love"? Yes. At my age, I've learned to accept what comes my way - with gratitude. Share my affections and accept those of others ... without demands from either side. I have no problem sharing what I have, when I have it with partners (temporary or not) when they need help.

China! We talk about it a lot of time time, sometimes in relation to Hong Kong, sometimes Taiwan, sometimes its strict covid lockdown policy. Now though, a whole series of nasty events is affecting that country that threatens not only its own economy but the economy of the world. Last week, the CEO of Huawei warned that the chill from China's forthcoming economic downturn will be "felt by everyone" for the next decade. A long article on The Guardian website today points out that many problems for China have come to a head at the same time. These include a total collapse of confidence in the property market that has kept the economy buoyant - an issue discussed for years but always thought to be one the central government would never allow to happen - now looks likely; increasing popular fury at the zero covid policy; the effects of a disastrous heatwave affecting supplies of power and food; runaway inflation in the rest of the world "threatening a bleak winter for developed economies from the US to Europe, and from Japan to South Korea" and the resulting high interest rates bringing reduced demand from around the world [with the likelihood that China's exports are] "likely to fall off a cliff during the coming 12 months". In the 2008 economic meltdown, it was China that kept the world economy afloat with a 4 trillian Yuan stimulus. "But with Beijing in the process of decoupling from the western-led world order and debt-driven growth out of favour, another Chinese rescue mission seems very unlikely. Instead, China faces Japan-style “lost decades” as it tries to absorb the billions of dollars of dud property loans." [The 1990s and early 2000s were years of economic stagnation for Japan following the huge boom years of the 1980s]. “'In the short-term China’s economy is being hammered,' Rajah [Roland Rajah, the lead economist at the Lowy Institute, a thinktank in Australia] says. 'It remains to be seen what the medium- to long-term consequences could be. But China also faces very significant longer-term headwinds from demographic decline and ageing, creeping statism, and its increasingly difficult external relations.'” "Falling external demand is the 'next shoe to drop' for China, according to David Llewellyn-Smith, the chief strategist at the investment and asset management firm Nucelus Wealth in Melbourne, and will leave China in a perilous state. "'The private sector is being hammered by Omicron, the external sector hammered by global weakness, and public sector doing what it can to pick up the slack but it faces various inhibitions on fiscal policy. It’s a very toxic combo for China. Very difficult to manage,' he says. “A Chinese recession is absolutely in the frame over next year. That’s going to have incredible implications for global markets of all kinds.” https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/aug/28/crunch-time-china-tries-to-fend-off-property-crash-global-economy

So true! What a waste of lovely brown skin. And that ties in with @bucky13's use of the term "peer pressure". The boys make these silly choices largely because of this. First there were silicone dicks, but many of these victims have since moved out of sex work. Then in the decade 2000 -2010, half the boys kept moustaches, but at least these could be shaved off when the fad passed. Now we're at tattoos which, like silicone dicks, are permanent. I don't know if this is really a change from before. In this oldest profession, certain survival strategies were honed many generations before us. But, to stay on olddaddy's point - how are moneyboys different from 20 years ago - let me give you one memorable incident from the early to mid 1990s. It was in Barbiery Bar ( a handful of us may remember that bar quite fondly) and one evening I was quite taken with a particular gogo boy. I got him to sit with me for a while and then asked if he was available for short time. I remember his exact words to this day: "I am expensive," he said. "1,000 baht." Indeed, that was expensive, for at the time the going rate was 600 - 700 baht. So I tipped him 20 baht and let hm leave. These figures may leave some of the newer members of this forum gasping. On the subject of inflation, I kick myself for not having kept good records of my expenses from the 1990s. But I do have notes from the period 2005 - 2010, and I am drafting a post for ShamelessMack2 showing how prices have leapt up since that period, especially when compared against Thailand's much more moderate increase in the Consumer Price Index. Coming soon....

I will happily take all of the tattooed boys! 😍

This forum regularly sees members unabashedly post about fucking boys, sucking boys, kissing boys and rimming boys. Odd how when someone suggests loving boys the naysayers come out of the woodwork. Just saying.

Many confuse love and sex...they are not one in the same....

As Boy69 mentioned most hotels in the area have no problem with guests, it comes down to your budget and requirements. I like Le Meridien and SO Sofitel (SO lifts can be annoying though). At Le Meridien you just walk straight to the lifts with your guest, the reception will just say hello. Prices are always a hot topic, generally short time visitors in Bangkok will want minimum 2000 baht. I don't do overnight much so I would just be guessing long time, but it's a discussion you should have with your guest for the night before you agree to take them back. Read some trip reports, they're your best source for info on where the type of guys you want will be, and how much some BMs have been asked or offer to pay.

If we say no often enough the requests stop in my experience. I completely agree not to get trapped sending regular cash to an insincere man. I've done it, though no fortune. A friend of a friend gave about £100,000 to a man he'd never met in a different continent. But I don't regret being in contact with dozens of Asian men over the last 11 years. I want to meet many of them again so my way I know where they are. When one of them threw himself in the river in Bangkok and died I was on the next plane to Vietnam to see his family. Of course many of them will give us a sob story to try to get cash. And sometimes their reality is grim. We can keep in touch and be very careful, and say no, and do what we can to help when we are there.

Indeed they are not. Love is placing the other person's well being on a par with your own. It's being emotionally available as a confidant and friend. It's accepting the other person's foibles as he accepts yours. It's taking joy in each other's company. It's mutual affection and trust. It's the realization that you are unquestionably happy and fulfilled when you are together. I've found that I need that experience in my life. And I agree that it has nothing whatsoever to do with sex.

In my experience, sex is fun while love can be very painful indeed. I honestly do not recommend it. If it happens, as it did to me, welcome it as a privilege but don't expect it to be as much fun as an hour with a MB. And it will be more costly- and I'm not just talking about money.

nope, not ready, never have been

I would say yes.....🙏

That's right. You never know, so it is best to be very cautious about it. Don't forget, I live in Pattaya and have been here many years. I think I know a little more about the goings on than people who go to Thailand for holidays, even if it is months at a time, and decide now they know more than people who live here. Some of the "expert" posts I see cause me to spend several minutes finishing up having my little laugh. I'm not warning frivolously.

Guys most of you may not be aware but Lurkerspeaks, poster who initiated that thread 5 years ago and who was so excited with his first trip to Thailand ever, passed away during that trip , few days after arrival and day or two before His birthday. Hope He is in better place now

funny thing I agree with you almost fully even if my particular experience with money ' extortion " by the boys is quite opposite. But I can live with fact that I'm in exception category when comes to the matter. My statistic sample is very small , just 3 guys received money and one smartphone. Two out those three did not even ask, I did it on my own will. One asked but only once. All three confirmed reception by sending me a picture of them holding money which is good idea as it's always possibility of scam and stolen identity. One who got money on my own will did not even exchanged contact info when we met after the fact (whole thing was helped with by common friend). I went through list of contacts on Line today and only 1/3 of guys from there ever asked for handouts, exactly 8 out of 24. Other 16 still have their chance for refusal. So why I agree ? Those who asked were out of blue and often very persistent including one who wanted no less than 20000 and sent me bank account info right away. It's never pleasant to say ' no' even if request is entirely unwarranted, it's why your warning should be taken seriously

You don't need to pay that much , just say that you paid 10000 and wait to be stoned or something

There would be a riot, wigs thrown and the whole place burnt to the ground 😂 Part of me wants to find a lucky guy on my next trip to give it to just so I can nonchalantly add it to my report and see the hysterics

Just to emphasise the importance of keeping the employers unaware. Once I arrived at a go go bar moments after the lad arrived for work. He put his head round the door and went with me, despite my questioning whether this was ok without my paying the off fee. He was new in town and said it was ok. He was sacked the next day because of this. He was reinstated the day after that when I returned to the bar and paid the off fee.

I think you misinterpreted my comment I don't see any wrong if one decides sending money to a boy if he loves him, appreciation for his service once they met or just because he likes him , Me for example met a Colombian boy through the Internet whom I am going to meet on Christmas for the first time and our relationship become more serious over time ( to my surprise ! )so I send him money every month to support him for me it's not a huge amount but for him it's a substantial help for paying the bills and buying groceries, but in this case the OP barely know this boy he even doesn't know his name however decided to send a small gift to him that wouldn't interpreted by mistake by the boy as a gesture of serious intention and if he sent money this is exactly what might be understood by the boy. The OP did the right thing.

OH!! But I think Old Daddy's Electrican??? 😋

right, I forgot it's Sunday today

I wanted to say that but you were faster, Then foreigners were rarity , now , at least in some bars they seem to dominate. Biggest difference is that then they had smile and cock, now they have smile, cock and smartphone which is often more rigid than their cock.

don't take it personally but this is common excuse for Cheap Charlies. I don't think we need any excuse for not giving money to somebody we barely know. We also don't need excuse if we decided to respond to request, it's all between us and a boy in question. Problem is not to get entrapped in barrage of constant requests like you were with that Patong guy. Then only thing that would work is either to block contact or liberally use phrase " I can't" without going to too much explanation.

In Western Union you still need at least his name, no ? OP wanted surprise

Well, mine are older. They were 20 back then. Now, they are 40. 20 years makes a huge difference in age.

From Thai PBS World Deputy secretary-general of the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), Prayad Puangchampa, was dismissed from service today (Monday), after he was found to be unusually wealthy by amassing 658 million baht in assets, many of which are being kept abroad. NACC Chairman Pol Gen Watcharaphol Prasarnratchakit signed an order dismissing Prayad from government service today. The NACC also agreed that his assets should be confiscated and become state property. The NACC faulted Prayad for allegedly deliberately concealing his assets by providing false statements about six of them when he assumed the post as deputy secretary-general on January 4th, 2017. The assets he allegedly attempted to conceal include six items, worth about two million baht, in the country and under the name of his spouse Thanipa, and four other items located abroad since 2019, worth about 225 million baht.

So I thought I would do something nice for my favourite bar boy in Bangkok, I noticed on his line profile that his birthday was coming up so I thought I would send some flowers as a surprise, but then decided against it in favour of sending something a little more useful. So I had a bit of a search on google and found a place that does decent gift baskets and decided to send him one with some food items, directly to the bar. Anyway, I wasn't even sure if the package was going to make it as I had not used this service before, I only know my boy by his nickname (and first name), and I didn't know if he was even going to be at the bar the night of his birthday (and package delivery date). So it was all a bit of a gamble. Anyways, I ended up receiving a flurry of line messages thanking me profusely for his present, so I was glad that the package was delivered successfully and also glad to make him happy. This was the service I used if interested: https://www.basketeer.co.th/en/ . I'm not really the romantic type, but just felt like doing something thoughtful for my favourite bar boy whilst I am away from Thailand.

Well, it's... At times enthralling... But by the end, kinda meh. The way it suddenly turns to Tilda DEMANDING the BBC... and than kinda peters out... Glad I saw it, enjoyed 2/3rds of it.

The clusterfuck Chinese real estate market has been overdue to tank China's economy for a while now. And I'm sure it'll be bad. But maybe there's a bright light to Covid in that it's already given us supply chain shocks, encouraged diversification of important supplies, and put us all in the mindset "everything sucks now and apparently forevermore, keep slogging ahead" so maybe it'll have less impact than it would've in the before times. I mean most Chinese will lose the majority of their investments, and their banking system will probably faceplant... but... The West isn't invested in their bubble much, right? And we have been warned strongly against their no-oversite stocks. Meanwhile, they'll need work and money more than ever... And they're still more economically important to the West as an exporter/producer than a consumer. China as a whole will be less able to buy our debt or invest in our projects, but any Chinese people who can manage individually will be desperate to invest anywhere but at home, and the rest of the world will go from flirting with changing their reserve currency and increasing their sovereign-fund investments in China to running full-tilt back to US. Places that were encouraged to economically rely on China might be fucked. But the West... might be better off after some brief shocks? We'll go from being unable to compete with China to them desperately trying to get whatever they can from us. Buy back all those ports and other projects they put so much into for pennies on the dollar? Am I too optimistic? Entirely idiotic?

Sorry, but I tend to think of all the tens of millions (maybe 100s of millions) who will be out of work or earning a fraction of what they used to earn, who will have to get used to electricity bills 70%-80% higher and have diffficulty putting food on the table for their families. There is no such thing as a "good recession" for anyone - apart from the rich.

why you did not go down to have massage in the Complex or fire some app and invite soothing boy? or just stroll along the beach as cheaper option to see some life and bodies ?

Me too. Trouble was every month I had to send a bouquet of flowers to my hands . . .

Why are you assuming I meant you? I wasn't even thinking about you. I had someone else in mind - not even a poster on this board, but I'm not going to say who. However, your assumption, although wrong, does amuse me.

Oh yes I do know - only too well. I too lived by myself. I came to Thailand years before living there and went through it many times. For me some of the most terrible days of my life were the days my holiday was over and i had to return to the USA. I clearly remember more than once, when I had to change planes in Tokyo on my way back to the USA, right next to the plane to the USA there was a plane getting ready to go to Bangkok. It was all I could do not to try to board that plane. Personally, though it isn't easy, I'd choose being lonely and realistically looking forward to my next holiday in Thailand rather than get stuck in a money trap with obviously insincere boy. Unfortunately, the choice becomes accepting reality or trying to continue living a fantasy. I hope you make the right decision.

Did you see any shirtless Thai construction workers? Enjoy.

I don't think you read my post correctly. I know full well how important discussions on tippping are. I merely suggested there be a separate sub-section specifically for ALL posts about tips. Then it will be simple for those wanting information about tipping to look up. Presently posts about tips are spread all over the place! It was simplicity I was suggesting. Nothing more.

Almost all hotels in Silom-Suriwong hotels are joiners friendly most of them will require to see or deposit the boy ID , My favorites are Furama Silom and Le Siam which you can just bypass the reception and go with your guests directly to the elevator. No questions asked.

Mostly very similar to how Thailand itself has changed in those 20 yrs (ahum, now that you ask it-my first visit was in the 80ies, so I am nearing the 40 yrs jubilee. However, the very first was out of Malaysia as a normal young bekpekking tourist and was not that inviting to come back soon-I was hooked to Indonesia that period-and in fact still kind of like it more as Thai). And it always surprises me how even much normal economy and daily living can change in TH when I return(ed-as in the past <covid) after 1/2 year-another wet season passed by. They all have a fone-or 2. They are tech-savvy with those things. They are much sooner bored with just sitting=waiting for possible clients to pop in. Most do not really want anymore to follow in bars what the big boss dictates, nor is here really a big need to do so. Command of foreign languages is far higher (chinese is also a difficult thing to learn for Thai). The most wanted brands for clothing have likely changed-the shoes remain Nike, but who wears shoes in bars/places? The walkmen (remember those?) have gone for passing time. The real advanced have even adapted to a cash-less world - pretty common in western Eur for now. The amount of guys talking about poor mums/dads over there in the ricefarms of Isany has dwindled a lot. And yes-it is no more just Thai+the odd foreigner from just beyond sneeking over-rather reverse. Big shift from being offed from bars to ready to act massageshops.

That is exactly the kind of problem I'm warning about. Some might be lucky and it doesn't happen, but believe me that is the exception. The problem is, as I said, no matter how much you give, it's never enough. And the pleas for money never stops. One poster calls my advice ludicrous and says just block him. Really? Try it. Just try it, It won't take long to see how doing that seems like it will work, except for one thing - it doesn't . . . If you want to send money as a gift, by all means send how much you want. No problem about him knowing who sent it if, and only if, he doesn't get your contact information.

How much more of a surprise could it be, unexpectedly receiving a notification money has been sent to you and is available at any Western Union pick up office?

repetitive yes but boring ? no subject ever generates that much heat like money, specially other's people money. It's why we have so many posts about tips like you noticed, we always had and in future we will. Interest in beauty of Grand Palace or Ayuthaya ruins fades fast when somebody posts that his boy rejected generous 1000 baht offer for long time and counteroffered greedily with 10000. I don't even want to start with thinking what would happen here if that 10000 was agreed upon and paid

What's weird about trying to make boy happy at very modest cost? Isn't it reason good enough ? I once sent money to guy I learned was in trouble at that time. He did not ask me about anything and I offed him only once before. I just liked way he was trying to get himself out of his hole by taking very low job so decided to help , expecting nothing in exchange. Or one may say just to feel good myself. And I did when two years later he recognized me passing by in soi 4

I have stayed there two or three times a year for several years now, and always happy. My last visit was last month, and the construction appears to be nearing completion. The long term staff are as lovely as ever, but like billyhouston I do miss the lovely buffet breakfast and tended to go out to eat. Hopefully in this high season coming up things will get back to normal.

I never looked for a LTR; indeed, I said after nine years and thirty or so trips to Thailand that I loved being a butterfly. The one falang I knew who was in involved such a relationship with a Thai guy was often deeply unhappy, for many reasons. And so when it happened, I was unprepared. And it didn't "happen" in one night, one week, or even one year. The relationship grew over a series of visits to Thailand. I believe that it was after three years that I first used the word "love". It was in a conversation with my oldest friend. The use of the word surprised us both. And so , in my case, the cliché of an old falang falling in lust after a couple of erotic encounters, just doesn't hold water.

he speaks Russian or Putin speaks English?

Popper gives me headaches. I am happier with taquila.

At least 3,000 for 5 boys to entertain you. It's the same old story - the more you are prepared to spend, the more fun you'll have.