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I’ve been a lurker on this site after discovering it at the start of the year, and have just today become a new member. This forum has been such a treasure trove of information amid really positive vibes amongst the posting members. A trip to BkK is planned shortly after over 5 years. I am recalling how in one of the 8-ish trips I’ve made to BkK ( invariably for work, with friends or family), I had mustered up the courage to go - for the first time ever - for a massage at a gay outfit in BkK. This would have been probably 10+years ago - and how my heart was thumping stepping into the shop, and having a bunch of guys semi-circling round for the choice to be made. It was in a Korean dominated complex of sorts, along sukhumvit I believe, and what a revelation that first session had been with the typical Thai enthusiasm (despite it being nothing more than just a sensuous massage with a hj and some feet fun, and nothing else). And how I got bolder in then trying out another.. Arena .. and then Senso - but again, it was purely a massage and some hj activity. Closeted here with closeted interests, and I had never been to any of the bars (didn’t have the gall to go on own!) that this forum has so much information about, nor thr saunas etc that BKK has to offer. Now after the big 50 has hit, I am much more keen to ‘live and scratch the itch’, and ‘try new things’. Carpe diem at last after all this while.. lol. Never off’d any guy, but I’m really wanting to check out one of the gay bars/ shows out with the parading boys to be off’d. I’ve read the wealth of info and the ones available, dreamboys, Tawan, etc, but could I ask for suggestions which one might be recommended as the more appropriate (eg least intimidating!) for a first timer, sole, oriental, mature visitor to go for to ease oneself into this scene … Or is there not too much to choose between the offerings? massive fan of massages here, and I’m really looking forward to trying out Prime Massage that so many in here have extolled thr virtues of.. and also maybe that Bangkok Spa Massage place in the same building as Arena in Silom that requires membership but seems to provide an intriguing tantric edging massage I’d be keen to try! If anyone has any suggestions for Thai outcall-to-hotel massuer contacts who can do nice long 2+ hours of Swedish or deep tissue massage (just handwork required, and edging an added bonus), please do let me know as there seems to be a dearth of those. I guess it wouldn’t be possible or entertained to try suggesting to individual masssurs at outfits like Prime or H3althland if they would moonlight for outcalls to hotels? thanks again for all the newsy information on this forum!

we all know "can't wait " feeling as for 'liturgical questions' it depends of what is important to you, specially fundamental one like who will bottom should be settled before offing rites. My set is: 'do you go with me?" ( I think it's polite not to assume anything so I always ask that even boys I offed many times before, once I heard " I must think about it " but I enrolled mamasan to help and all went well ) "long time" ( as macaroni said , not all are keen but I'm so I make sure, again I ask it even boys with multiple offs before ) ''do you kiss " (not condition to off but I like to know, I don't want to force myself on him ) 'how much do you want " ( I like to have financials fixed , again even with guys I offed on previous trips . If answer is " up to you " I place an offer. I don't haggle though, I may counteroffer once but after that it's either his quote or mine , I'm not shy to say "too much " though ) that's all in the bar on the street I ask two more ' do you want to eat something" ( long timers only, I like my guys to be fed so they don't run early in the morning feeling hungry) 'are we walking" ( if hotel is walking distance ) and one more in the room : ' we shower together? " ( some guys are surprisingly shy in the room, other may simply want to use toilet beforehand so I don't force issue ) all other question I may have I don't consider liturgical, when passing by 7/11 I usually ask if they want something from there, in the room I ask if they want drink something

Yes, I'm hoping some readers will become better informed. But it has to be said that any unapologetic boasting of dangerous sex practices ... which clearly can have a negative and health-threatening impact not only the boys but some of us who post here and travel to Thailand or elsewhere - should remind us that when we sleep, have sex, with money boys or Grindr dates, etc. we are potentially sleeping with the others they've slept with. Let's remember the threats we ourself can present to so many other people by our own bad behaviors. Ok, enough said. If I posted what I really think I'll likely be reprimanded by the Moderator. But there are comments in this discussion that do call out for repeated reminders of our responsibilities.

I always wonder how you guys recognize who is straight and who is not just by looking at them , skill which eludes me. Sure at times some boys are acting revealingly so to speak but it's pretty rare. As always , I have my doubts how straight are guys presenting and offering themselves to patrons of boy bar who are mostly men. Not to mention impressive erection some of those straights have in the room as soon as doors are closed. I agree with floridarob, we need only bar and one guy from there to make night interesting

Not at all. By quarter past midnight - this was a Friday/early Sat - the joint was winding down already. The models were all gone, either booked out or having decamped post-show. About 5 to 6 boys were left on stage. This being ML though, the quality was decent, though hardly cream of the crop, unsurprisingly. I did meet Mr. Phnom Penh, who came recommended by one of the papa's I know. The entrance fee was still 400, but that came with two drinks instead of the usual one. (The deal with ML of course is that this is actually an entrance fee you pay at the door, so it's not possible to poke your head in first, then decide if you would like to stay.) I didn't order anything else after that, except for my boy, so I can't say if prices are indeed lower. That, however, is the case with Jupiter. First drink is 400, subsequent ones are 160/170 to 200. Hope that helps.

I went to Senso (replied in another thread) but perhaps with more details here since this is about Senso. Booked via Line and selected masseur before heading down. They are quite polite and responsive, even confirming that the rooms are already available for me before I arrived. When I got there, one staff came to chit chat and asked if I've been before, or aware of the available courses. About 5-6 masseurs sitting around, some topless, some clothed. I saw the masseur I pre-selected in the group. Told the staff that I booked via Line, he double checked and then I was ushered up to the room (4th level) with ensuite bathroom. Chose masseur who is lean/toned muscular who is totally my type. He spoke decent English and was able to communicate throughout, making small talks. Showered before (alone) and after (together). Massage itself was good and proper, loosen up some of my knots... but lack sensual touches 😛 after turning around and facing up, he went straight into teasing and getting me excited for the extras, unprompted. Some licking, touching, sucking (quite surprised by this) and offered to get some action from the back. After the happy moments, he was sweet enough to continue with massage on my shoulders, lower back while seated and commented on my body, made some small talks and showered together where we chatted further. If I recall correctly, it was 1500baht + 1500baht tip for 90mins. Not the cheapest, but overall satisfied. Tea and water offered before and after at the main waiting area too. Hope this report helps!

Laundy: hah, you do not yourself-plenty of places where they will do it for you-in Thai places priced by the kg, in neat western-style )(probably most over there) by the piece. Casual daytime (sloppy?) clothes: take it under the shower, hang out, next morning dry and clean The well-known sites of booking and agoda (=bokg mostly for asia) do not list all, but most and have easy and lots of different choices/options If feeling a bit unsure about it: hire HTL for first few days and visit the places-there will be many more locally. You greatly enlarge choice by being not too specific and able to alk a bit.

in case readers are not aware of or you too shy to boost yourself macaroni 21 has great blog ShamelessMack2 – Gay escapes Thailand and around (travel.blog) I noticed new entry made today

Exactly: “Freedom isn’t free” - and the cost of freedom should be giving up assault rifles, automatic and semi-automatic machine guns rather than sacrificing the lives of innocents to make small-dicked toothless dumb bastards feel more manly because they’re packing an arsenal. Limit private ownership to single-barrel hunting rifles for avid hunters (whom I do not understand at all) and pistols for personal Safety. Blaming Mr. Rushdie is almost like blaming a rape victim for dressing too provocatively, or a patient for undergoing a surgery despite knowing about possible complications. We all take risks in our everyday lives: working, driving, flying, even eating - but we still hold others responsible when they do not keep their ends of bargains - whether it’s our employers, car manufacturer, airlines, or restaurants and grocers. Chautauqua Institution has been around for May decades, hosting celebrities and international events. They should have taken precautions and should bear the responsibility.

That's why my motto is " Grow old disgracefully" 😂

That it only takes 1 to make the night

Day two of the return to Bangkok saw a couple of reunions. Having done the rounds of Fresh Boys, Dream Boy and Tawan on the first night, I hit up Jupiter this evening. Surprisingly, all was as I remembered it: lots of women in the audience (couple of hen parties), and very attractive boys, mostly straight. Even the show was still good. Seems like ol' Jup managed to maintain standards, unlike DB and Tawan. One of the papa's remembered me from days of pre-pandemic yore, and that was nice. I wanted to get one of the boys to sit with me - one of the few gay ones, I was told - but, lo and behold, almost EVERY guy had been booked out. I couldn't quite believe it ... Guess Jup really is popular with a mass demographic. I took my sad, lonely ass off to Moonlight. On the way out of Silom 4, I peeked into Banana bar. There were quite a few boys on stage, but a quick scan down the lines suggested that quality control meant something else here; most of the boys looked like they er, could stand to hit the gym and/or lose a couple of pounds. I took off in double-quick time. By the time I got to ML, it was past midnight. The show was over, and the models were gone. Bumped into one of the managers who also remembered me, and it was a round of drinks. I was resigned to making do for the evening, but the silver lining in the cloud was meeting a young lovely from Phnom Penh who was only five days into the job. Fair of complexion, slender of body, and gay as a goose - so the chemistry was f**king great. I off-ed him for supper at the all-night Jap place across the street on Surawong, he more than willingly had his hand between my legs the entire cab ride back to Sukhumvit, and we ended with a great hour or so back at the hotel room. Moral of the story: some bars still have it, and some bars don't. Such is life and competition in Patpong.

And how precisely do you check mental heath issues? Is everyone's access to internet sites to be monitored for those with tendencies to look up sites about guns or mass shootings? As I suggested, in my view the mental health issue is a total red herring. And sorry to say the Switzerland analogy is another red herring. It is a patriotic duty in Switerland to learn how to use a firearm and even to own one. Switzerland has a very small army numbering less than 135,000. Yet roughly two thirds of Swiss males must undergo mandatory military service when they have to supply there own equipment, including guns. They then remain 'on call' should the need arise up to a certain age which is usually 35 but can be as high as 50. Hence, there are around 2 million guns for a population of over 8.5 million, unlike the USA where there are more guns than citizens. But in Switzerland there are very strict rules and regulations re firearm ownership and storage. Also unlike the USA, the country has not had a mass shooting since 2001 whereas the USA seems to have more than one a week on average. And unlike the USA, the country's overall gun murder rate is close to zero. The Swizerland analogy is a favourite of the US NRA. It is a false analogy.

Just came back from Bangkok last weekend and had a great time at Senso and Sabaidee. Contacted both via Line and selected masseur based on photos and recommendation from Line account. Turns out I was very satisfied with the recommendation! Told them I wanted masculine and muscular, and got exactly what I wanted. Was even offered free upgrade to VIP room (a whole apartment room) for Sabaidee as the original choice was not available. As mentioned, their masseur seemed to come just for the job at short notice (booked about 1.5hours prior). Tips and price are shared via Line. Sabaidee is very responsive. Wanted to try Ganymede and Vclub7 but took forever for them to reply via Line. Most others have ceased operations... sadly

I just saw another post where the poster was saying he was retiring to Pattaya in September. Now this question has been thrown around the gay forums for years and of course many of the original farang expats are no longer with us. The "latest" gay farangs of course to retire will be more wealthier however is it just me but I have noticed my last few months there is far far less gay farangs retiring to pattaya,no idea about Bangkok but far less gay resident expats in my opinion So this is my update, I just spent several months in Thailand, particularly in Pattaya to see if I still had that "urge" to settle down there forever like I used to want to when I worked hard and all the overtime I could to save enough money for that "exciting retirement" Fast forward 25 years and sadly it seems going by my last few months in Pattaya I no longer have that urge or excitement to retire here in Pattayail,I'm not ruling out other parts just Pattaya now doesn't do it for me Its a combination of things, unfortunately I tend to reminisce over old times and what Pattaya used to be like, walking thru the old Sunee recently I had memories after looking at the old Top man go go ,the exciting & busy times there etc, Michael who used to own it,memories bar ,the old farang expats who used to talk chat laugh with The boys who were more Boyfriend material entertainment,rather than the business like boys nowadays. It's no longer like that,well to me anyway,yes I know times change 25 years on and now near retirement I cannot see any reason to retire there,the boys are drying up and more than ever " businesslike" with one even sending me a written quote for his services on grinder and times of service etc. The beer bars I can no longer relate to,I find a few farang owned great where you can communicate with other farangs but most seem Thai owned and uninteresting . Unfortunately I suffer with "it's not like it used to be" syndrome. I find most things in the supermarket etc just as expensive if not more expensive than my own country eg cheese& coffee. But what confirmed it was talking a gay farang in a beer bar who had been here 2 years who was "lonely".He was thinking of going back to the UK as he had his daughter there. He spent his days living in a jomtien condo near the complex and was ,in his words,"bored" He had no friends it seems or should I say "real friends" just seemed to be the other gay farangs attending daily the beer bars he would say hello to.On asking if he had a BF he said no you cannot find a real BF here and I believe he is right. Talking to him gave me that extra thought that it's too early yet and with risk to retire there without having any "support'. Support meaning someone who is a genuine friend, someone who notices you not around etc ,support when you get sick I imagined what my scenario could be 62yo ,then retire to pattaya,I'm still gym fit & relatively healthy. So I would rent a condo probably near jomtien complex and spend my days doing what? Maybe going to gym like I did, massages etc but the days start to get boring, missing family back home, etc Visiting bars? Hiring the services of male prostitutes who want to go as quick as possible,then what? That got bored for me. Watch tv ? I would be bored too and very lonely . Obviously age makes a difference too,if I was 75 instead of 62,it may be more inclination to retire to pattaya but once again where do you get that support if you need it in sickness etc What some guys cannot fathom is you will no longer be a guy on a 2 week holiday chasing arse or dick, you will be living there and you will grow tired of it . You will find the boys working will become disinterested in you as you no longer use their services as much as a 2 week millionaire and they stop contacting you on Grindr etc You will sit most nights in your condo watching tv bored shitless, you will go out during some days to beer bars just to talk to someone. You will be alone the majority of your time unless you hire the services of company who want to most times leave asap anyway I can't do it at this stage of my life ,I prefer to continue working and travel each year . One thing that could change that though is if I had a very genuine Thai boyfriend and I don't mean a paid boyfriend who works in a bar I mean a real lover , someone you can move there for and live with . But at this stage guys I would say be very hesitant to jump into something such as retirement to Pattaya and finding out your more lonely than ever! Suffering depression being away from family,living by yourself in a high rise condo would be no fun with no network support wouldn't be fun, and to be brutally honest with you I have heard there have been far more negative stories of farangs retiring to pattaya particularly gay farangs than positive,that's why you see so many going back after trialling it for a few months It wasn't what they imagined, I doubt any like me on here will admit that though,that they didn't like it here full time , I do,I couldn't cut it guys,living in that jomtien condo everyday ,not at this stage of my life, it got boring,I got lonely ,I felt like I had no support,I wanted love after a while, someone to care for and he cared by, the moneyboys,that's what they call themselves nowadays, weren't people I could relate to,times change I guess ,but maybe some day I can get my spark back when Pattaya comes back I guess but not this time, I'm going back home

Yes as Macaroni said, try Airbnb I had some fantastic 5 star Condos from that company. If you ever see the condo owner you can always negotiate a lower price long term together as well

when quarantined for a day in December 2021 my room at Center Point Silom had both kitchenette and washing machine but probably it's costly proposal for 2 months so macaroni is right rooms I was staying at Furama Xclusive Sathorn had kitchenette , not laundry machine though

If that covers the discussion (which it probably hasn't 😉) of the fastest aircraft, here's some news from the current issue of Aviation Week about the biggest. Singapore Airlines is now operating more 380's than any of its competitors in the Asia-Pacific region. The carrier is flying 10 of the jumbos with two more slated to return to service as soon as retrofitting is completed. Thai Airways has six jumbos and recently announced plans to sell off two. No plans for the remaining four were disclosed.

In gogo bars most will not bottom, in massage parlours, about half will not. So, to avoid disappointment or unpleasantness later, it's important to settle this question beforehand. Do note that nearly all boys, even when they agree to bottom, will insist on protected sex. From gogo bars, all will do short time, but some cannot do overnight (commitments early morning, for example) so if you're keen on long-time (overnight), ask first. As for fees, some of us settle that in advance too, but some other members leave that unsaid. As a newbie, it may be better to settle that question in advance too at least until you're surer about the going rates.

Tomm42 is correct. There was (still is? ) Bangkok Spa in Silom Plaza, one where arena is. That's all I know as I never been there. Any place requiring membership or dress code puts me, the proletarian , off

Completely false comparisons. Obviously, the person with primary responsibility in the Rushdie attack was the man who stabbed him, just as the person responsible for a rape is the rapist himself. That being said, a wise person does what he can to mitigate his risks. If I leave a bicycle unlocked and unattended, and someone steals the bicycle, the responsible party is the thief. Nevertheless, it's fairly common sense that unlocked bicycles are extremely easy to steal, so almost anyone would say that it would be foolish to leave a bicycle unsecured. If a woman walks alone in the middle of the night in Central Park in NYC and gets raped, the responsibility is on the rapist. However, walking alone unarmed in a secluded part of Central Park in the middle of the night is certainly not a good idea. NYPD is not the responsible party. Similarly, one would have to think it's common sense that if there were a multi-million dollar bounty on one's head, that one would be careful about security arrangements at any well-advertised public appearance. I can't imagine too many sensible people would think "Well, even if I'm killed, the man attacking me would be responsible, and I'm pretty sure he'd go to jail, so I'm OK with taking that chance." And again, the surgeon's responsibility is to advise the patient of the potential risks and benefits of a procedure, and, of course, to be properly trained before performing a procedure. If a complication occurs, the surgeon is only responsible if he was negligent (for example, performing the procedure while drunk, or performing a procedure he wasn't properly trained to do).

For MaxTul fans: Max and Tul will reprise their roles of Tan and Dr. Bun of “Manner of Death” in the continuation of the plot from “Triage”. The new series will be called “ Transplant”. Unfortunately, the link below is not an official teaser:

made an account to say, thank you for sharing your experiences. I'm going for the first time in a month and i can't wait. if you don't mind me asking, what "liturgical questions" do you make sure to ask? I've heard that you always need to make sure they will bottom. Is there anything else?

We will have to agree to disagree because there is no way I can agree with that comment. The man has been virtually free for a quarter of a century without police protection - at least in the UK and I cannot imagine other countries are going to pay for such protection. If he is invited to address an event in a part of the world he probably does not know well, how can you seriously expect him to be responsible in any way for his own safety? I assume he was put up in a hotel. Would you expect him to inspect every entrance and exit and ask the front desk for a list of all guests in case one might be out to harm him? With respect that's just plain ridiculous! How about the fact that he has openly lived in New York since 2000. His address in Lower Manhattan near Union Square is not difficult to find. Do the New York police offer him round the clock protection? Of course not. He's a private citizen. The simple fact is he was invited by the Chautaqua Institution and his presence in that part of the world was advertised to the world well in advance. The organisers thus became totally responsible for ensuring his safety. I doubt if he actually goes around on his travels announcing his presence in advance. Therefore it would be much more difficult for a potential trouble maker to find out his location. Certainly they failed to find it for decades until last week.

Misaligned spendings on social programs by democrats and attempts to drop most of them by republicans, coupled with the ignorance of the brainwashed mob who votes against their own interests is only a small part of the problem the US is facing.

no and no

I fully underline this. I would even say, Jup boys looked better than before, not just model face but also model abs. Unfortunately, they still don't smile.

Arena is located on top floor in Silom Plaza. The only other massage shop in plaza that I'm aware of is all-male Best Massage on first level. Bangkok Massage is located on Patpong 2 but closed at the moment. Perhaps someone else is familiar with the shop (Bangkok Spa Massage) you mention.

Well, I do agree that banning private gun ownership would likely reduce gun violence in the US, though I wouldn't be in favor of that. We have a saying "Freedom isn't free." It seems pretty obvious, however, that Rushdie should have personally inquired about the safety measures at the event, however. Yes, the event planners should also have known better, but the fact that Rushdie should have been more cautious himself is obvious at face value--res ipsa loquitur. He was in complete seclusion for years, and I guess got too confident and sloppy over time. Obviously he is not THE only one who should have been concerned about his safety, but even more obviously, he should have been ONE of the people who should have been more cautious. I can't imagine even he'd disagree with that at this point.

Im currently on a months holiday in Thailand. What an utterly depressing thread. Im out of here!

Glandular fever/Epstein Barr virus can easily be spread through a carrier handling food like salad which you then eat. The difference between this and covid is, I believe, the possibility that glandular fever often has a slight effect on the liver. In a serious case, this can result in jaundice and a slight yellowing of the whites of the eyes. The good thing is that a great many people all around the world get glandular fever in their late teens/early 20s, are virtually unaware of it and it then becomes inactive in the body. I believe it is rare for it then to reappear in one's later life. The major problem is that the period between infection and symptoms being felt is measured in weeks. During this time the infected person can easily infect others. The virus is present in saliva and so kissing an infected person will almost certainly transmit the virus to you. But as with all illnesses, this information should be checked with a recognised medical professional. As for poppers, I have never used them but as I travel regularly I have occasionally brought them in for friends. When I have done so, I usually try to strip the labelling off the bottle and then either put it in my toiletries bag or stuff it into a shoe along with some dirty socks!

that's consolation indeed, lol

Was a dumb idea back then, still a dumb idea. Not too many people are flying across oceans for quick business meetings. I have a suspicion that those people who have extra money would rather spend it for a flat-bed seat on a comfortable wide-body and spend 10 hours on the flight, rather than paying a good deal extra for an uncomfortable seat on a 6-hour flight. Ultimately the same idea.

Or not....we never know 😞

There are lists of those with serious mental health issues, restraining orders, and, of course, criminal backgrounds. In California, there is a 2-week waiting period after purchasing a gun before the purchaser can receive the gun he purchased, to give authorities the time to go over those lists. I support that measure. In many states, one can just go to a gun show and buy a gun on the spot, which I feel is a terrible policy. I very much oppose the NRA. That being said, it is simply a fact that gun ownership in Switzerland is many-fold (like 10X to 100X) higher than that of countless other countries with similar gun violence rates. Obviously, much work needs to be done in the US to cut down on gun violence. One can certainly argue how that's best done. However, it is simply false that civilian gun ownership leads to high gun violence rates. By the way, getting to the subject of the original posting, Mr. Rushdie was attacked with a knife. Just to get our facts straight, again. His attack had nothing to do with gun violence in the US, and much to do about the fact that he had a $4 million bounty on his head and was hated by many fundamentalist Muslims. I think this event had nothing to do with American being an unsafe place, and everything to do about someone who knew or should have known his life was threatened from showing up at a poorly-guarded event. Of course, whether or not American is an unsafe is a matter of opinion. However, the attack on Rushdie could have happened anywhere. I personally would have been more cautious had I been in his shoes.

More on this point from Politico: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/18/u-s-officials-knew-for-years-they-did-not-have-enough-jynneos-vaccine-00052694 Before monkeypox outbreak, U.S. officials knew for years they didn't have enough of key shot The Strategic National Stockpile was supposed to have about 120 million Jynneos doses, enough for 60 million people, | Mario Tama/Getty Images By ERIN BANCO and HELEN COLLIS 08/18/2022 03:31 PM EDT Updated: 08/18/2022 06:26 PM EDT Officials said the Strategic National Stockpile did not have enough Jynneos doses for a potential smallpox outbreak because of a lack of resources. Top U.S. health officials have known for years that the country’s Strategic National Stockpile did not have enough doses of a smallpox vaccine that is now key to the monkeypox fight, according to three former senior officials and a current official working on the monkeypox response. The U.S. has stockpiled Jynneos, the vaccine by Bavarian Nordic, which is also being used to combat monkeypox. The U.S. never had the money to purchase the millions of doses that experts felt were necessary, the officials said. Now, that shortfall is hampering efforts to contain the growing monkeypox outbreak, one in which the Biden administration has come under fire for failing to deliver enough vaccine for the millions of people at risk. “Every time I meet a member of Congress, I let them know what the need is,” said Dawn O’Connell, head of the Administration for Strategic Preparedness and Response, in an interview. “The SNS … has been chronically underfunded. We need to get this SNS fully funded and stocked against what we think the next threats are.” The Strategic National Stockpile was supposed to have about 120 million Jynneos doses, enough for 60 million people, said the officials who were granted anonymity to discuss sensitive government matters. Jynneos was stockpiled as an alternative to ACAM 2000, a different vaccine that is not suitable for people who are immunocompromised. Prior to 2019, the U.S. had just 20 million doses. In 2020, the U.S. purchased just over 1 million doses to replenish expired vaccine. Paul Chaplin, CEO of Bavarian Nordic, told POLITICO on Thursday that after the vaccine received approval from the Food and Drug Administration in 2019, the U.S. stockpile requirement called for the protection of 66 million at-risk Americans. That meant about 132 million doses of the Jynneos shot were needed for people who cannot receive ACAM 2000 in the event of a smallpox outbreak. “That’s people [who] are vulnerable who shouldn’t really receive first and second generation vaccines,” Chaplin said. An official at the Department of Health and Human Services suggested the 120 million dose figure was higher than the government threshold but did not dispute that the Jynneos stockpile level was below what it should have been, and declined to provide what the SNS requirements actually say. The senior officials who spoke to POLITICO said the requirements for the stockpile — levels set in part by HHS — often shift and are, at times, outdated. For example, one former senior official said the department kept two numbers on hand — the number of doses the stockpile could afford to purchase and the number of doses that were actually needed to distribute to a certain population. The number of Jynneos doses the government could afford as of 2019, that official said, was around 40 million. But money for Jynneos shots competed with funding for more pressing priorities and threats the administration perceived as more likely. “That’s not preparedness,” said the former senior health official. “It’s like telling the military … you have a requirement for 100 airplanes, but we’re only gonna give you 10 because that’s all we can afford. And then we have to fight. Good luck.” Since the Biden administration assumed office, there have been ongoing discussions within the ASPR about adjusting the requirement levels and about how to get additional funding to help ramp up supply of critical medicines and shots. In November 2021, senior officials from HHS and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention held a meeting to discuss responses to a potential smallpox outbreak. Officials there spoke about the Jynneos shot and noted many doses had previously expired. They planned to ask Congress for additional funding to shore up supply, according to one of the former officials who attended the meeting. “There was a push after that to get hard, concrete numbers and budget numbers because they didn’t want to report … this huge gap [in supply] back to the White House,” one of the officials said. In May of 2021, POLITICO reported that the Biden administration rerouted $2 billion from the SNS to help handle the surge of unaccompanied migrants at the border. In its most recent budget request, ASPR asked for $975 million in funds for the stockpile, about $130 million more than was enacted in 2022. “We all saw what happened in 2020 when the PPE we expected to be there wasn’t there. I think Congress felt that acutely as well when their constituents were searching for things,” O’Connell said. “So it is really important for me to use that as a critical example of why we need to move forward and make sure the SNS is well funded against the current material threats.”

The re-emergence of an orthopoxvirus has in fact been contemplated and planned for by the US federal government for over a decade, which is why there is/was a stockpile of Jynneos and ACAM. At one point we had 20 million doses of Jynneos in the stockpile, which the government let expire without replacing them. That is indeed a failure and we would have been much better prepared for this outbreak if the stockpile had been maintained at those levels.

eh, to be 62 again, sigh !

just pay him and chalk it off, your piece of mind knowing what's going on is worth more that stupid 500 $ that's rather sure thing don't be to impatient, you still young . First they must identify problem , then cure you . Then you go back, carefully to your old ways. In meantime hand holding session with favorite guys will be your reward and I'm serious. There are many ways of enjoying boys barebacking and baresucking.

Two minutes on Google would tell you what's in them. They are alkyl nitrites. Used medicinally they are a treatment for angina. Some are safer than others, but when they are mislabelled as leather cleaner, who knows what's in them? The "leather cleaner" nonsense is part of the pretence that they are not for human consumption and therefore not subject to medicines legislation.

In Bangkok two and a half years later, finally! After dinner with a couple of friends - at an amazing new Thai place behind Central Embassy, but clearly catering to the hi-so crowd - we hit Patpong, but the place was a bit of a ghost town on a Thursday evening. It was a melancholic experience, the memory of Patpong and Soi Twilight at their rowdiest still fresh in the mind. We poked our heads into Fresh Boys first, where there were a number of, indeed, fresh-looking boys prancing around on stage in their skimpies with feather boas, with several more sitting around waiting for custom. It was dead quiet though, there didn't seem to be *any* patrons in there. We took off. Dream Boy was next. We were in time for the nightly festivities, but, again, the show seemed to be a pale shadow of its former self. Ditto the repertoire of boys available. As my friend - a long-time farang resident of the city - put it, standards have slipped quite a bit. Many of the boys seemed average-looking at best, and in several cases somewhat less than. The performance consisted of a couple of drag numbers, and a f**king portion that featured a pair of extremely limber young lads attached at the c*ck and ass, and moving around on stage as an attached duo like the proverbial beast with two backs. It was definitely the highlight. Two lovelies caught my eye, but we moved on to Tawan. A shift of home later, Tawan feels like a new entity, housed in a space half the original size. There was at least a decent crowd, including two women. (?!) Didn't recognize a single face from pre-pandemic days, from the wait staff to the guys. Looks like there was a complete overhaul. Ah well ... Did end up offing a new face, with a brilliant smile and a rocking bod. He turned out to be er, less straight than he claimed to be in the bar, which was was good news for me. This one might be a regular. Encountering post-Covid Patpong was a bit of shock to the system, but, hey, at least there's a Patpong to come back to! Hallelujah for small mercies.

The WHO is reporting a 20% increase in new infections in the past week. There are now over 35,000 cases worldwide. Excerpted from CNBC Though data on the vaccine’s effectiveness is limited, there are reports of breakthrough cases in which people who received the shots after exposure to the virus are still falling ill as well as individuals becoming infected after receiving the vaccine as a preventative measure, according to Dr. Rosamund Lewis, the WHO’s monkeypox technical lead. “We have known from the beginning that this vaccine would not be a silver bullet, that it would not meet all the expectations that are being put on it, and that we don’t have firm efficacy data or effectiveness data in this context,” Lewis told reporters. These reports are not surprising, Lewis said, but highlight the importance of individuals taking other precautions such as reducing their number of sexual partners and avoiding group or casual sex during the current outbreak. It’s also important for people to know that their immune system does not reach its peak response until two weeks after the second dose, she said. “People do need to wait until the vaccine can generate a maximum immune response, but we don’t yet know what the effectiveness will be overall,” Lewis said. A small study from the 1980s found that the smallpox vaccines available at the time were 85% effective at preventing monkeypox. Jynneos was approved in the U.S. in 2019 to treat both smallpox and monkeypox, which are in the same virus family.

who would forget Rose, Blanche, Dorothy and Sophia ? And that Great Herring War in St Olaf, MN

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/03/us/politics/monkeypox-vaccine-doses-us.html U.S. Could Have Had Many More Doses of Monkeypox Vaccine This Year The Department of Health and Human Services delayed asking the manufacturer to process the bulk vaccine the government already owned into vials. By Sharon LaFraniere, Noah Weiland and Joseph Goldstein Aug. 3, 2022 WASHINGTON — The shortage of vaccines to combat a fast-growing monkeypox outbreak was caused in part because the Department of Health and Human Services failed early on to ask that bulk stocks of the vaccine it already owned be bottled for distribution, according to multiple administration officials familiar with the matter. By the time the federal government placed its orders, the vaccine’s Denmark-based manufacturer, Bavarian Nordic, had booked other clients and was unable to do the work for months, officials said — even though the federal government had invested well over $1 billion in the vaccine’s development. The government is now distributing about 1.1 million doses, less than a third of the 3.5 million that health officials now estimate are needed to fight the outbreak. It does not expect the next delivery, of half a million doses, until October. Most of the other 5.5 million doses the United States has ordered are not scheduled to be delivered until next year, according to the federal health agency. To speed up deliveries, the government is scrambling to find another firm to take over some of the bottling, capping and labeling of frozen bulk vaccine that is being stored in large plastic bags at Bavarian Nordic’s headquarters outside Copenhagen. Because that final manufacturing phase, known as fill and finish, is highly specialized, experts estimate it will take another company at least three months to gear up. Negotiations are ongoing with Grand River Aseptic Manufacturing, a Michigan factory that has helped produce Covid-19 vaccines, to bottle 2.5 million of the doses now on order, hopefully shaving months off the timetable, according to people familiar with the situation. Health and Human Services officials so miscalculated the need that on May 23, they allowed Bavarian Nordic to deliver about 215,000 fully finished doses that the federal government had already bought to European countries instead of holding them for the United States. At the time, the nation had only eight confirmed monkeypox cases, agency officials said. And it could not have used those doses immediately because the Food and Drug Administration had not yet certified the plant where the vaccine, Jynneos, was poured into vials. But it could now. Some states are trying to stretch out doses by giving recipients only one shot of the two-dose vaccine. California, Illinois and New York have declared public health emergencies. In New York City, every available slot for a monkeypox shot is taken. Lawrence O. Gostin, a former adviser to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention who has consulted with the White House about monkeypox, said the government’s response has been hobbled by “the same kinds of bureaucratic delays and forgetfulness and dropping the ball that we did during the Covid pandemic.” The obstacles to filling and finishing vials follow other missteps that have limited vaccine supply. The United States once had some 20 million doses in a national stockpile but failed to replenish them as they expired, letting the supply dwindle to almost nothing. It had 372,000 doses ready to go in Denmark but waited weeks after the first case was identified in mid-May before requesting the delivery of most of those doses. Another roughly 786,000 doses were held up by an F.D.A. inspection of the manufacturer’s new fill-and-finish plant but have now been shipped. The government also owns the equivalent of about 16.5 million doses of bulk vaccine produced and stored by Bavarian Nordic. But by the time the health agency ordered 500,000 doses worth to be vialed on June 10, other countries with outbreaks had submitted their own orders and the earliest delivery date was October. Another order for 110,000 doses for European nations soon followed. When the United States came back with two more orders of 2.5 million doses each on July 1 and July 15, the bulk could only be delivered next year. Mr. Gostin, who now directs the O’Neill Institute for National and Global Health Law at Georgetown University, predicted that President Biden’s decision to appoint two new monkeypox response coordinators would help “light a fire” under federal health agencies. The White House announced Tuesday that Robert Fenton, an administrator at the Federal Emergency Management Agency, and Dr. Demetre Daskalakis, a C.D.C. official, will lead the response. Mr. Gostin said the nation’s public health agencies have been “kind of asleep at the wheel on this,” and the new coordinators should help with “unblocking all of the obstacles to procuring and delivering vaccines and drugs, which has been deeply frustrating.” Two senior federal officials, who requested anonymity in order to speak frankly, said Mr. Biden is upset by the vaccine shortage. His administration has often touted its success delivering hundreds of millions of coronavirus shots to Americans, and is stung by criticism that a lack of foresight and management has left gay men — the prime risk group for monkeypox — unprotected. Some critics blame a failure of leadership at the Health and Human Services Department, saying the department’s secretary, Xavier Becerra, has taken a hands-off approach to an increasingly serious situation. His department not only oversees both the C.D.C. and the Food and Drug Administration, but also runs the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, or BARDA, which helps develop and buys vaccines, tests and treatments to protect against highly contagious viruses, bioterrorism and other hazards. During a press call on monkeypox last week, Mr. Becerra said his department is doing all it can to ensure that “we not only stay ahead of this virus but that we end this outbreak.” He noted that he had recently elevated the agency’s Office of Strategic Preparedness and Response so it can respond more quickly to public health emergencies. Sarah Lovenheim, the department’s chief spokeswoman, said in a statement: “Our response has accelerated to meet evolving needs on the ground, and it will keep accelerating. We will use every lever possible to continue allocating doses ahead of timelines, as possible.” So far, according to the C.D.C., 6,326 cases of monkeypox have been reported. For now, the virus is spreading almost entirely among gay and bisexual men, and those with multiple or anonymous partners are considered especially at risk. Mr. Becerra noted that while more than a million Americans have died of Covid-19, no one in the United States has died of monkeypox. The official case count is widely considered an underestimate. Not only is testing limited, but public health officials like Dr. Joseph Kanter, the top medical official in Louisiana, said that monkeypox can be hard to diagnose. “It can be one or two solitary lesions, so if it’s not on a clinician’s radar,” he said, it can be missed. With too few doses, health officials apparently plan to rely heavily on the “test and trace” strategy that figured heavily in the early stages of the Covid pandemic. As the pandemic escalated, the sheer torrent of cases overwhelmed the ability of health officials to contact people who might have been infected by someone who had tested positive for the coronavirus. Once Covid vaccines became available, they became the cornerstone of the administration’s pandemic response. Through early June, Health and Human Services officials appeared firmly convinced that the United States had more than enough supply of the monkeypox vaccine, called Jynneos, to handle what appeared to be a handful of cases. Bavarian Nordic was able to develop the vaccine, which also works against smallpox, largely thanks to the federal government’s backing, which surpassed $1 billion in 2014 and is now edging toward $2 billion. Dawn O’Connell, the federal health agency’s assistant secretary for preparedness and response, told reporters in early June: “The world has Jynneos because we invested in it.” The company opened a new $75 million fill-and-finish plant in 2021 that is now bottling as many as 200,000 to 300,000 doses a week. At the time, the United States was counting on Jynneos to protect against smallpox, not monkeypox, and the government had a large stockpile of another effective smallpox vaccine. No F.D.A. inspection was scheduled until after the monkeypox outbreak, and it did not conclude until July 27. In early June, Health and Human Services officials agreed to essentially loan back about 215,000 finished doses of vaccine to Bavarian Nordic so the firm could supply them to European countries that were suffering outbreaks. “It didn’t make sense while we were waiting for F.D.A. to get the inspection done — which is coming — that we sit on doses that our international colleagues in Europe could actually use,” Ms. O’Connell said on June 10. Now the government is trying to reschedule delivery of those doses for later this year, a company spokesman said. The final stage of putting the liquid vaccine into vials accounts for a substantial share of the cost of vaccine production. Some federal officials say the health department was slow to submit its orders for that work because officials at BARDA argued they were short on funds. When the demand for vaccines became an outcry, though, the agency found the money to pay for five million more doses to be vialed. Officials are now contemplating shifting half the work to another firm that may be able to finish and fill doses more than twice as fast. Some experts say it can take as long as six to nine months for a plant to gear up to handle a vaccine like Jynneos, which contains a live virus in a weakened state. Carlo de Notaristefani, who oversaw coronavirus vaccine manufacturing for the federal government until last year, said that such factories must operate at a high “biological safety level,” including a fully enclosed, segregated manufacturing line. But he and other experts said it should be possible to streamline the transfer of Bavarian Nordic’s process so another plant could be ready in about three months. A company spokesperson said Bavarian Nordic agreed to pay $10 million of the cost of such a transfer after federal officials said they did not have the budget for it. Kitty Bennett contributed research.

From Bangkok Post Thailand's 3rd monkeypox case found in Phuket Thailand's third case of monkeypox has been found in Phuket, Department of Disease Control director-general Opas Karnkawinpong said on Wednesday. Dr Opas said the latest monkeypox case is a 25-year-old German man who arrived in Phuket on July 18 as a tourist. The man was believed to have caught the virus in another country because the incubation period is 21 days. Officials were tracking down people who had been in close contact with him, for examination, he said. Dr Opas said the patient was found to have a fever, with blisters and a rash that began in his groin area before spreading to other parts of his body. The symptoms coincided with information from the World Health Organisation, that blisters and rashes are found around the genitalia of 98% of those infected, and most of them are homosexual or bisexual. Dr Kusak confirmed that the German patient arrived in Phuket with his Thai wife on July 18. He was not a homosexual or bisexual, he said. While in Phuket, they had stayed with his wife's family in Muang district. The couple had gone out sightseeing but had not visited any entertainment venues. Dr Kusak confirmed that the German patient arrived in Phuket with his Thai wife on July 18. He was not a homosexual or bisexual, he said. While in Phuket, they had stayed with his wife's family in Muang district. The couple had gone out sightseeing but had not visited any entertainment venues.

I’m 64 and have been retired for seven years. I spend 5 months every year in Pattaya, the rest in USA. I find I’m happier in Thailand. I still love the sex, even though there’s less choices now. And I spend 2 or 3 months with my money boy boyfriend. I think it’s him that makes it good. He’s not afraid to be seen with me, and we have a nice routine. We wake up about 2 pm and have a meal , sometimes hang out on the beach. I’ve read that paying someone to love you can cause depression. I’m aware ot that and accepted that he loves my money more than me,lol. But I’m certainly not lonely with him. Half the battle I guess. I cannot live in Bangkok because of the pollution. Pattaya is a bit better in that regards. I’m an introvert and I’m easily entertained! I try to learn some Thai but I don’t have to. I’ve found Great Depression since I came back to USA after Covid. I’m very isolated and lonely in the USA. I suppose I could find a guy near my age here. As long as he doesn’t mind me going to Pattaya for 5 months, might be hard to find someone like that. If I was rich I’d just retire in Thailand. It’s the fear of not being able to afford health insurance latter on that keeps me going only 5 months. Also I’m healthier in the USA. The air cleaner, healthy food, and I like my doctors here. I swim in Thailand and in USA I use a gym and walk. I need to break up the workout routine. I think Olddaddy, you’re right about being bored in Jomtien. Jomtien is boring! I sold my vt condo there. I think you’re in a good position though. You’re in Australia, which is nice and close, so you can adjust your trips better. You’re an introvert like me. You can pursue sex and do other things, you need to look hard and you’ll be surprised what you might find. But most importantly is having someone you can count on, if you’re sick,etc. I have same problem! You can contact me if you’re there when I am, I’m always there for my friends.

I am the guy that Olddaddy is referring to. What he wrote are also my concerns - meaning will I fit into a new retiree life in Pattaya/Jomtien. I have left my doors open so that I can return to Europe (or to some other destination) - where I live now - if I won't like Pattaya/Jomtien. I am originally from the USA and I left the USA in 1999 as a result of some gun violence that occurred to a friend. It was in Colorado - our ski buddy group went out for a beer. I was tired that night so I left earlier to go home. Our friend was the last person to leave the bar that night - he went out back to the parking lot to get in his car - some random guy came up to him and said give me your wallet - he replied NO and the killer said, good-bye and shot him dead at point blank range. After his funeral at one of the ski group friend dinners, my friends told me, hey, we are going to get our gun licenses - do you want to join us (back in 1998)? I replied, NO thanks - in fact, I will use this opportunity to leave the USA to finish my undergraduate studies that I never finished. I hate gun violence!! So, in 1999 I moved to Rome, Italy and started my new life there as an older student at the university. Just shy of the first year, I almost moved back to the USA - as the culture shock and language barriers were keeping me from fitting in. Of course I fit in with the younger students but I did not click with them as they were just there for a one semester abroad party. I persevered and seeked out an Italian who could not speak much English to live with and after living with him for 6 years - I was able to fit in, make real friends, learn their language, get my Italian citizenship, and find an international career. So, what I learned in my early years in Italy - I am hoping will give me the strength and perseverance to help me fit in and adapt to my new life to-be as a retiree in Pattaya/Jomtien. I believe that if we encounter loneliness - then it is our own responsibility to overcome it. I am also an introvert - but I can force myself - when needed - to be extroverted. So, I will push myself to create a network in Pattaya so that I do not become that lonely person in a nice condo overlooking the Gulf of Thailand wondering - Oh my GOD - what have I done. If I find myself in that predicament of loneliness - then I will only have myself to blame. My life will not ONLY consist of the Jomtien Complex, the gay beach, Boyztown, and Sunee. I see that there are so many additional things to do in the environment, nature, helping out the less fortunate, joining the expat group PCEC Pattaya City Expats Club, continue with some projects that my former employer would like me to work on, use Pattaya/Bangkok as a jumping off point to explore the nearby countries, explore Thailand in a more deeper way - after watching Paddy Doyle's great adventure where he explored ALL 77 of the Thailand provinces - I realized that I also want to do that - and it would be so cool to do it on a low powered motorbike like he did. So, in summary, do I fear all that Olddaddy wrote - HELL YES!!! but, I am not getting any younger and I have lived in the North American continent (New York and Colorado) and then the European Union (Italy and Hungary) - now it is time for Asia and all the excitement that this will bring to me for the last chapters of my life.

Thanks, Olddaddy, for your brutal honesty. The issue of aging and loneliness is something I believe all gay men have to come to terms with at some point. It seems to be happening now for you. Some on the forum have found a life partner and that affects their decision to retire to Thailand. Others find that they're simply happier in Thailand than they are in their home country. But for most of us, Thailand remains a frequent destination but not our home base. It has crossed my mind to retire to bkk but I wouldn't consider it unless I could first master the language. Learning any new language is more difficult with age but still possible if you're adequately motivated. I'm not and I can't envision a life in Thailand without being able to communicate in Thai. If you're seeking boyfriend material, maybe just start looking for friends first. Friendships can have a way of turning into more meaningful relationships over time. But if you begin by limiting your field of candidates to sexual contacts, you may find that the relationships never grow beyond that point. In any case, you're still a relatively young old man. You have a right to a happy future and I wish you well on your journey.