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Day 4-6: Fighting for a new life Today is a new day, and for Tiago, today is the start of a new life. His main reason to be in Thailand is to stay for at least 6 months to get training in Muay Thai, as he had in Jiu Jitsu in Brazil, and economic realities meant that doing this in Thailand is way cheaper than in Brazil. It will also enabled him to get into the Asian fighting circuit that have boasted any number of Brazilians looking for easy money doing what they love to do. Having gotten to know him for a better part of a year, first in Brazil, then having him tag along in my travels, I am confident that he has the drive, and the skills necessary, to be a success. Probably not to the top of his sport, but enough to gain the necessary experience to further a career in this realm, to either teach the sport in western countries, or mount a school and/or gym himself in his home country, among other possibilities. He is certainly making the most of whatever physical gifts he has, and taking advantage of his youth and energy, to get to the next level. I’ve often wondered how boys get into prostitution. It takes a certain intestinal fortitude to withstand the day to day demands to survive the mental and physical toll that is inherent in the profession. One Brazilian boy I’ve known describes it as a constant series of humiliations, being objectified, poked and prodded, facing constant rejection, doing constant negotiating, a lot of chasing, all for the money he will need to pay his bills. He still sticks to it, because it is lucrative, and since he has not gone to school, and doesn’t have any traditionally marketable skills, this is his greatest chance to get the most money that he needs. He knows that he won’t be young forever, so why not strike while the iron is hot? Having a fat 9-inch penis doesn’t hurt either. Tiago has told me that the rigors of sauna and bar boy life aren’t for him. He is not above selling his body for money, he says, and admits he has entertained the random offers he has gotten when he is, for example, on a Brazilian beach or at a club. But he has a more stable family life and has gotten some support from his parents whenever he needed to get bailed out from a missed rent check or to refill his kitchen pantry. And he prefers using his body for fighting, a love of his that he has cultivated since he was a teen. After getting good at Jiu Jitsu back home, he has set his sights on Thailand where he wants to spread his wings. --- We wake up at 6 AM, to catch a 9:00 AM flight to another Thai city, where Tiago’s MMA gym is. We plan on spending 3 days there, to work out his living arrangements and secure his place in the classes that he wants to take, as well as to make sure that he has face-to-face interactions with the staff of the gym to make a determination that this was really where he wants to end up. Before this, all his conversations with the gym people have been virtual, with many video conference calls to the Brazilian part-owner and some of the Brazilian fighters on staff. Nothing beats in-the-flesh interactions, and he has asked me to form my own opinions of what I will see, to help him decide if this is indeed a good decision for him to take. I get us a Grab Taxi to the airport, which amounted to 427 baht, since I always ask the driver to take highways, and the driver was able to add the 75 baht tolls to the fare: The plane ride over was fairly quick and efficient. We then took a taxi to our hotel. I splurged a little bit on a resort hotel to at least get some pampering in, while taking advantage of the resort’s many pools, great restaurants, and other cool amenities. After a quick lunch, we quickly head over to the MMA Gym, to get it out of the way. Tiago wanted to spend the whole day tomorrow to just veg out in the resort with me, before we head back to Bangkok on the third day. Any doubts Tiago had over the gym quickly melted away when we stepped out of our taxi into the gym complex. Most of the workout facilities were outdoors, and with Thailand’s sweltering heat that might not be ideal, but we see a fair number of people working out sparring with each other and with punching bags which were a-plenty. There were two practice boxing rings that I saw, and a courtyard that had people milling about. Tiago’s eyes lit up. He was impressed. We were met with a Thai employee. He spoke to us in English, and as before I explained to him that Tiago didn’t speak English well. We were lead to where the living quarters would be, and we found some Brazilians who were living at the gym. Most of them then joined us and the Thai guy to take a tour of the place. There was a stage area, where the public fights happen, we were shown some of the living quarters – kitchen, bathrooms, and the room where Tiago would be staying at. It was a modest room, a bed, a fan, some shelving, closet space. We were told there was wifi all thoughout. Tiago told me this was more than enough for him. The room afforded him privacy, and a comfortable place to rest, which is all he needs. We then met up with the Brazilian part owner. He rolled up on his motorcycle, wearing Muay Thai shorts and nothing else but his flip flops. A fighter himself, he was 35, and still very much in fighting shape not to mention fairly handsome. A typical rugged Brazilian. After some introductions, he then takes us to his office to talk business. Tiago wanted me there with him to help with the decisions. The owner was impressed that I can speak Portuguese, and made the remark that when he first got to Thailand, he spoke no English, but learned through living here many years. Tiago then commented that he hopes that will be the case for him too. I mention my journey to Portuguese, and told them all the classes in the world were no match for actual immersion and speaking it with native people. The owner spelled out how things worked in the gym, the daily routine, how much the classes were, the accommodations, the food. The owner will be able to give Tiago a discount if he helped out with setting up the gym first thing in the morning, and cleaning up at night, since he was short-staffed. He then tells Tiago on how he can earn money with helping to teach MMA to western farangs who come to the gym to learn as well. He says that with Thailand reopening, he has seen student numbers tick up again, and is expecting to be really busy going into the high season. Also, there will be some opportunities to fight locally, in Bangkok, and overseas in Cambodia, South Korea, and other nearby countries is also a possibility, to earn some extra pocket money. This all sounded good to Tiago, and to me as well. After this we were shown some gyms with weights and cardio machines that Tiago can join to maintain muscle, and to a local fighting gear store where he can get his boxing gloves, tape and others things. The owner commented that it was more expensive to buy it here than in Bangkok, and recommends that if we were heading back to the capital that Tiago do his shopping there. We then sit down for some coffee (at the air conditioned gym thankfully) and just shared stories about Brazil and Thailand. The owner is very charming, and seems to be a really awesome guy, and he shared his take on how it was to live in Thailand as a Brazilian. As Tiago and I went back to the hotel after all this, we had a long conversation about all the information that was presented to us. Both of us had a good feeling about it. Tiago’s brain was already swimming with all the things he intended to get accomplished here. Once we step of the taxi at the hotel, Tiago holds my hand as we walk back to our room, and once we were in the room he hugs me, telling me that he is grateful for this opportunity, and it wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t buy his plane tickets. I told him that it was his vision that got him here. I only greased the wheels. Plane tickets for Tiago: $453 one-way from Sao Paulo to Doha, 10k + 40k Avios points from Doha to Dubai to Bangkok. Gratitude that Tiago has shown me: Priceless We actually went back to the MMA gym later that day, because there was a public fight scheduled that featured 5 fights. I got to talk to the other Brazilians as well. Thank goodness for hot Thailand weather. All the fighters were shirtless, and I’ve lost count of the abs that I’ve seen total. The fights were well attended, with some farangs sprinkled in a mostly Thai audience. They sold some food and liquor during the fights, which I bet is a money maker for the owners. As promised by Tiago, we spent the next day just vegging out. The pool, strolls around the resort complex, pool, sex in the hotel room balcony, pool, hit the buffet and the pool bar, and then a nice dinner in one of the resort restaurants. Even if there was a whole city outside this resort, I picked it to take advantage of the amenities, and also to take a break from all the running around we’ve been doing this past 3 weeks. The next day, recharged because of the relaxing day before, and renewed because of the knowledge that Tiago will be in good hands once I leave him to his own devices next week, we were in good spirits. Tiago left his big luggage behind at the gym since he was coming back, and left with just the necessities for the rest of my stay with him in Bangkok. We consolidated all of our things into my big luggage including some in my carry-on, and then checked my big luggage at the airport for our flight to Bangkok. That was a mistake, as I left something in the checked bag that almost ruined my night. That’s next post.

Two doors from the soon-to-reopen Senso Massage was a restaurant that billed itself as a place for Isaan food. Named Somtum Der, it served provincial cooking in a chic setting. I flipped through the menu on a stand at the streetfront and noted that the prices were reasonable, but it was only a little past six and a tad too early for dinner. Should I or should I not? Then two twenty-something guys came from inside to their glass door to invite me in. "Oh," I said to myself half-jokingly, "what are the Senso guys doing here?" The guys looked deliciously like some of the staff we remember so fondly of Senso. All resistance crumbling, I went in and chose a strategically located table with a good view of the bar and service counter. I particularly loved the woven rattan (or bamboo?) baskets overhead. My guess was that these were inspired by the baskets Isaan folk use to catch fish in rivers or perhaps to hold chickens on their farms. It wasn't a long menu - a good thing - and my order came quite quickly. It turned out to be a wonderful meal. There was a larb salad with generous amounts of fried catfish in flakes. I asked for it to be medium spicy and it was just right for my non-Thai palate. The spring rolls with pork filling were crisply fried, yet very light on the oil. Yummy. The raw vegetables on the side apparently accompanied every order; I didn't have to ask for it. Finally, there was sticky rice steamed in a small woven bamboo cylinder. This is a standard part of an Isaan meal. The total bill came to 285 baht, which included a 10 percent Service Charge. But, feeling very satisfied with the meal (and the scenery), I still added a small amount as extra tip. Although it looked like a small place, there were quite a number of tables. There was a terrace that might be perfect during the cooler season, and there was also a mezzanine floor inside. On the glass front were a number of Michelin decals. I don't know much about such things, since I'm one for the simpler things in life, but this may mean something for those in the know.

Before I forget to mention, this trip I stayed at The Quarter Silom (rated #1 on TripAdvisor, very affordable at just 1400B/night, and just a stone's throw away from Tawan and New Twilight). My boy reunited from 3 years ago (let's name him A) was fascinated at this new hotel, he didn't even know it existed! Once we entered the room, he wasted no time in stripping me (he was already all touchy-feely in the elevator). Shower was tantalizing. Sex was passionate (even better than 3 years ago I would say). It was almost like he still remembered what I liked/disliked. He came before me, but I didn't wanna cum, as I already had during a massage that afternoon. So he chased me around the room like a horny predator with sly eyes, commanding playfully: "COME HERE." DAMN, that was quite a turn-on. (OK DON'T JUDGE.) After I eventually came, we cuddled naked for 30 mins, chatting about how the past 3 years have been. Apparently it was only his 5th day working at Dream Boys, as his previous employer Screw Boys is still closed. He had been working as a hairdresser in Chiang Mai for the past two years due to COVID. If I had visited Bangkok a week earlier, we would not have reunited (if this isn't fate, what is). So for the past 5 days, no customer had bought him drinks or off-ed him, as he is "not muscular like the other boys". "But you have big cock", I consoled him as I stroked it. OOPS, he was getting hard again, but I wasn't ready for another round. I dragged him to the shower. As we kissed and made out, he whispered: "Tomorrow you look for number XX, I tell him you are good customer." Oh, number XX. The tall cute Korean-looking boy from Dream Boys whom I jokingly mentioned. He remembered. I was actually kinda touched. I tipped him 3000B and reminded him to take a taxi home, as it was approaching 2am. He was genuinely surprised by the huge tip, but still insisted on taking a 50-min bus ride home. I walked him to the bus stop, he held my hand lovingly, with the gentle night breeze on our faces.

It's true that this topic always seems to generate a lot of heated discussion and I don't know why. When compensating a guy for his services I first look at the going rate and set that as my minimum. After that I look at the value for money side and adjust my payment accordingly. I think the guys have a terriblly difficult job, serving customers old enough to be their grandfathers. Some are also rather unattractive, others are rude and demanding - and yet the guys have to soldier on. Of course some can refuse to service certain clients but others are forced to by their bar. How they manage to get hard has always been a mystery to me. The thought of having sex with someone like myself must be a very daunting prospect, softened for the boys perhaps by the fact that I'm nice to them and show them total respect. I can also be quite generous if I really like someone. I find the Thai boys I "interact" with to be polite, friendly, totally honest and respectful of me and my "needs", basic as they are. They are lovely people. They've gone through the tough Covid times so I will be extra generous when I get back to Thailand.

If some random guy tried to move in on the boy I was with in a bar, I'd just politely say "Sorry, but the boy is with me." If I was sitting with a guy and I did not intend to off him I would let him know right from the start and say he was free to go if he thought he could get an off. Business is business. I've been in the situation when a guy I had offed a number of times over my holiday was sitting with another customer when I arrived at the bar. I met the boy outside when he went for a smoke and told him I would off him if the other guy had no intention of doing so. He returned to the customer and found out he was not going to get an off. I signalled to him to continue sitting with the customer and earn a tip and we'd get together after the customer had left. That way, we were all happy - smiles all around. Isn't that what it's all about? Although I have never been in the situation where a boy I was sitting with randomly got up and joined another customer, if that ever happened I wouldn't say anything. But I'd be reluctant to have anything to do with him next time I was in the bar.

I really shouldn't comment as I have not been in a bar for some years. However, I did also have this happen maybe 7 or 8 years ago. It turned out that the man my boy turned to was a regular at the bar, had offed the boy before at least once and was known as a good tipper. At that point, I had not even tipped my boy my usual 100 baht for sitting and chatting to me. I have no idea if your boy knew the other man but suspect that he did. I did not make a fuss as the last thing I wanted was a boy sitting next to me who really preferred to be with another guy he knew to tip well. My view is that buying a drink for a boy should give you some proprietorial rights unless another has told the mamasan he wants to take the boy out. But I don't think logical thinking is ever at the forefront of bar behaviour. Certainly making a scene would just make you look stupid in the eyes of all the bar workers. They'll mark you down as a trouble maker which could affect your enjoyment of any future visit you make.

I think it s fair as long as neither one of you cum. In such case regular short time rate should apply as well as bar,s off fee which was and perhaps still is Nature Boys policy. I only hope you were first customer who sucked that guy that evening as taste of somebody else,s dentures could be bit exotic to put ot mildly. Why is that discussion about somebody else's money always generates so much heat ?

In such a case I'd say, gnash your teeth and let it go instead of creating scene. We don,t know what boy,s intentions are and sometimes he may get directed by mamasan to sit with certain customer, usually well known for good business he is bringing in. Older readers of this forum may recall my story form old Tawan when guy with off and tip sealed told me exactly in the moment of paying off fee that he must go with another customer. I was left open mouthed gaping for an air. I still don,t know reason but I suspect managerial order. Anyways two years later I gave him 2nd chance and was mightily rewarded with what to this day I consider my best by far long time off ever. The same way we have our favorite guys, boys may have their favorite customers, unfair as it is, it,s just fact of life.

Nothing wrong with looking for leads and recommendations as long as we realize that people have different tastes and expectations . At times sincere praising a place or guy may lead to disappointments so it,s better to be bit specific. Without pointing at anybody , I would always recommend places with older ,better built guys which may serve some of us well but lead others to running from door screaming. I always give advice I believe in - go and check for yourself, you never know whom you meet. One,s treasure may be somebody else,s disaster and guy who gave us fantastic massage on Tuesday and Friday may turn to be slacking for one reason or another. The same goes with hotels , restaurants or even bus # 77 or getting to Bangkok from Pattaya.

Sure, I have a doctor in NYC that is 200 for a visit and the escorts are 300 for a short time. I use the Whopper as a means. You can buy a Whopper in USA and other places. For an escort in the USA, you would never tip the cost of a Whopper for service but some in Thailand try this. In Thailand Whopper meal cost 219 Thai baht. So, the cost of a short time is about 10 Whoppers (using 2,000) In USA, the Whopper meal cost is 6.50 USA. So, the cost of a short time is about 31 Whoppers (200 USD, even though most in bigger cities charge more). Yeah, Yeah, I know cost of living, etc. But, IMHO, tipping someone the cost of a meal at Burger King for a blow job is insufficient. Perhaps, cruel even. This thread has been fascinating and I think a good debate among many to see different views. I expect more see my view in Bangkok than in Pattaya. But, maybe no one does and that is OK. We all have different ways of tipping and taking care of the people who take care of us. As @floridarob pointed out, I may gift too many motorcycles to guys that are good to me and I have never felt guilty with that. I have also never tipped the cost of a Whopper for a sexual service and I have felt guilty for that. I have one long term boyfriend who I have gifted 10 motorbikes, two cars, and more. And, I still feel that he has not gotten the full amount he deserves for his kindness to me over the years. Hell, today I'll be taking him for a Whopper for sure. Thank you all for your various points of view. I would buy each of you a Whopper but I'm afraid you would feel the need to put out and I don't do over 40s.

I took the liberty of putting together these tips, offered seperately by three forum members. Under this new title , newbies might find them better. Apologies if I trespassed. Latbear4blk: · Pack light. I made the mistake to plan for a week wearing two layers (underwear t-shirt and shirt), but it is just too hot for that. No top underwear is needed. Short pants are fine. I had read that the locals are not fond of casual, comfy clothing, but it is not true. Like Buenos Aires, this is probably changing. Casual wear is appropriate everywhere I went to. Temperature is very pleasant between 5pm and 11 am. Between 11 am and 5 pm, it was unpleasant to me. · About rain, it was forecasted every single day I was here. However, it did not rain every day and when it rained it was just for as few minutes. Raining was not an obstacle for my plans, bur rather a very much welcomed refreshing event. · Look for open, shady spaces. Even in the hottest hours (the issue is not really temperature but humidity) there is almost always a very nice and refreshing breeze. · Be aware that if you are a foreigner, you are a target. Not necessarily of a crime, but many people will try to take advantage from you. If you are wealthy and your bank account is generous, you should not worry. Even the over prices are pretty affordable. I am probably the poorest contributor in these forums, and I found everything cheap. The most noticeable over price I suffered were the apanados. I paid 10K for each, when they cost 3.5 to 4K. Yet, when I saw what I got for 60K (16 bucks), I could not refrain a smile of happiness. The guy scamming mr noticed it and laugh with me. Max Avila told me that his current boyfriend lived in Medellin for two years without realizing he was paying twice the local prices. When they started dating, he learned about it. · There are huge differences on pricing in different areas. El Poblado’s prices were considerable high than Laureles’. Even inside Laureles, you can notice the difference between the most gentrified areas around both Parque Laureles, and the least gentrified area around Avda San Juan (Calle 44) and La Setenta (Carrera 70). · Bisexual friends, women are available for 60K, and straight prostitution is much more extended. · There seem to be two “classic” gay concentrations. You have fancy bars and one discoteca at El Poblado, and you have a few bars and sex clubs in Centro (I have not yet explore the latter). Then you have a more contemporaneous and mixed gay places in Laureles, with a flagship in the dance club Industry. I have not been there, and will probably not be, considering my ears are still bussing after Club Oraculo. · They will probably ask you, but make sure you provide the name of your building when you schedule a delivery or a guy. Something is wrong with the city’s nomenclatura, the boys tell me, and you may be sending someone to the wrong place. · None of the guys I hang out with knew how to speak in English. There are guys who know, but I am sure it is a commodity that comes with a price. · Older, hairy, overweighted men, the typical bear type, is a popular fetiche amongst young and hot men. I got a lot of sex for free, I mean very good sex with mostly very hot guys, but all above average guys, all younger than 25, without paying a dime. Even the boys that hang out with me for long hours and even stayed overnight, only expected me to pay all the bills while together. Indeed, it is transactional. However, my one grindr hook up, a fuck and leave, was zero transactional. The boy was a hot webcam boy, and he liked me. He kept contacting me at 2 am, when I was sleeping or out. · Try to bond or deal with at least one guy you trust, and stick with him. He will play the role of the “espantamoros” i Morocco, and help you with good tips and recommendations, keeping you safe and from over paying. My boys did an amazing job at protecting and taking care of me. The Costeño has already checked me three times today, and there is nothing he can get from it. · If you happen to be with two boys, and they are not clicking, ask them for their favorite songs. Immediately, they will start singing together, and bonding, and the ice will be broken. · Respectfully, I think the reports about insecurity are overblown. Like in any big city, you should not walk alone at night. Comuna 13 is 100% safe. Centro insecurity at night is true. The killings targeting lonely gay guys are just a temporary issue, and the whole community is working hard to get the killers. Paisas are learning that tourism is a source of endless money, and are really focus on making their city more welcoming and safe for foreigners. · If you are looking for an airbnb, anything in El Poblado, Laureles, Provenza, and the South is safe. Make sure you rent above the 5th floor, as you will have more breeze. Try to rent above 10th and with a balcony or terrace. You will have a better view (the valley is beautiful specially at night), and you will be sure there is a working elevator. I have seen 6th floors buildings without an elevator. · Street food is delicious and very cheap. Just avoid beef, usually the cuts are very poor quality, hard to chew and even cut. Chicken, beef in small pieces, and (I guess, because I do not eat it) fish are good. · Uber sucks. Download an alternative application. I will download again Didi for the next trip, I am told it works better. joizy: 1. It may have been said elsewhere, but I'd like to emphasize that you should speak some Spanish. I found very few people who spoke English. Definitely learn the basics and keep trying to communicate in Spanish - translator apps work well and people will appreciate the effort on your part. 2. If your cellphone plan doesn't allow an option for international use - look at Airalo e-sim card. It's an electronic sim. You can download the app before you leave, purchase your sim and have it ready to go when you land. I found out about this when the sim I had installed on an old phone stopped working. Wish I'd known before I left home. 3. Look for a card that allows cash withdrawals without fees. I have a Charles Schwab investor "checking" account. I transfer money into this account and use it for travel. Best exchange rates and ATM fees are reimbursed. 4. Use Rappi - it's a delivery service that will deliver anything - food, medicine, whatever you want. 5. Approach Grindr with caution. Too many guys that seemed too good to be true. Ask for verification photos if you're not convinced. Some words that indicate a financial exchange - liga, disponible, solvente. 6. Use Uber instead of taxis if you can. They are unauthorized, so you sit in the front seat - just a "friend giving you a ride". You can plug in your destination and you know the fare. Their goal is to get you to your destination in the most efficient way, whereas taxis might take the scenic route if they figure out you're not from there. With all cars, close the doors gently. They are surprisingly light. If you use the same force you use at home, it will slam. Taxi drivers are especially unhappy when this happens. 7. Be careful at ATMs - I used the ATM inside of a supermarket. Don't flash your cash. 8. Beware of people slipping you drugs. I didn't read about this happening to gay men (though there were a few gay murders that I think are still unsolved), but I read on numerous forums about straight guys being drugged by women and ending up in the ER - of course with their valuables gone. While I had ZERO problems there, the hotness and availability of the men might lower your normal sense of caution. 9. Look for a local to show you around and help with your Spanish. I paid a guy to be my tour guide. He threw in some extras. I had the best experiences with him. Met him on Grindr. 10. Have fun. Medellin is a beautiful city and the people are lovely. Keep your wits about you, show some cultural sensitivity, and you'll have a great time. Macdaddi: #6 - Absolutely the #1 taxi issue with foreigners is slamming the car door. I like to remind new visitors to Medellin of the rules: its ColOmbia, not ColUmbia; always acknowledge others with food by saying "Buen provecho"'; learn to use "Buenos días", "buenas tardes", y "buenas noches" at the appropriate time of day; never slam the car door when exiting; and you certainly do NOT talk about Bruno.

From The Thaiger British Airways isn’t heading back to Bangkok until at least next year. Tour operators were hoping the British flagship carrier would be adding regular flights again between Heathrow and Bangkok in time for Thailand’s high season, just when the winter kicks in in the UK. British Airways was originally set to resume flights in November this year but has now reviewed this decision and made no commitment to restarting services between Heathrow and Suvarnabhumi. BA says that Bangkok, and Thailand, “is not top of BA’s list for resumption, as it is predominantly low-yield tourist traffic”. (Low-yield traffic are passengers who are predominantly chasing the lowest fares and spend the least per seat on an aircraft.) They also cited the “stiff price competition from the Middle East carriers – Qatar, Emirates and Etihad” – who are already flying either daily or multiple fleets per week. But BA is selling Bangkok flights with a OneWorld partner, with connections in Doha using Qatar Airways. “We regularly keep our extensive global network under review, and we’ve taken the decision to extend the suspension of our Bangkok service.” Meanwhile, Thailand will lose another UK connection in August. Budget airline Scoot, which began flying Gatwick-Bangkok-Singapore in March, will suspend services on August 21., But the Singapore-based budget airline says they are planning to return to regular UK – Thailand flights at the end of October. But these flights have not been confirmed at this time and are not currently available for bookings. Only Thai Airways and Taiwan’s EVA Air offering non-stop services between Bangkok and London’s Heathrow.

I asked one of the lads, who I had met on a previous trip, and he suggested some of his friends who I had met at the bar. I offered 3000 to divide amongst them as well as paying for everything. I paid 1200bt return for the shared speedboat which had another seven Asian customers (so 240bt each person) and takes about 15 minutes. The lads suggested getting the Songtheao to Tien beach, which is quieter and less touristy than the busy beach the boat arrived at. I thought that was a good move as I liked the quieter Tien beach. Lunch under beach umbrellas with very reasonable jetski price for any of our group who wanted that. When booking the speedboat, which is just walk on to the pier at Pattaya and talk to speedboat companies, one specifies a return time. So a pleasant afternoon out. I don't know about overnighting there.

I find there are situations where I'm ok with it and when I'm not. In April I had all of the Winner Boys cast sitting with me at a table with drinks when @Vessey and his entourage arrived. Some of the boys excused themselves and went to join the other table, but came back occasionally to check-in. I was completely fine with that, sharing is caring. I've also been invited to join a table by another farang when he was in a similar position with a table full of boys and I was solo, I appreciated that so I wasn't sitting around waiting for him to leave. I actually became friends with him from that night. If I was one-on-one with a boy I plan to off, I'm ok with the boy going to say hello to a previous customer. If the customer 'did a John' and tried to sideline me from the boy/conversation, I would either leave or make my intentions known by calling the mamasan over and paying bin with the off fee then leave with the boy. There's no point getting upset or possessive over boys when you're surrounded by possibilities, mai pen lai.

If this happened in a Gogo bar, it's very unusual and I agree with the OP, not good at all. However, if this happened somewhere like Jomtien Complex, I think it's important to remember where you are. A very insightful British tourist said last week while chatting at @home bar, that often Jomtien Complex feels like a social club. While 20-30% of people here at the moment may be tourists, the vast majority are expats who are in the same bars, with the same customers and same boys, most days, if not all days of the week. While not the case here, it's also important to mention that a large number of Asians who drink in Jomtien Complex are not there working, but out for a drink after work. Although many will quickly become a freelancer for the right price. Jomtien Complex is largely an expat location. Hopefully a busy high season can change that. Over the covid period, many expats kept these boys fed and housed (those that couldn't go home). I am still aware of a good number of Complex boys who are still living with farang, but working the bars at night. I personally am very friendly with a few boys in Jomtien, drink with them often, but it will never be anything more than that (they are not working there). Would be interesting to know what the boys story is, if you see him again. Either way, I hope this doesn't happen to you again.

THere is a certain etiquette to this, or at least I would like to think there is; probably naively. I too have occasionally had the 'alpha males' deliberately trying to muscle-in on boys I was sitting with; it is annoying but also a test on the boy. If the boy is clearly distracted by the said alpha male, then he probably wasn't the right boy for me anyhow. Does dent the ego, but I am usually surrounded by alternatives. It has also worked the other way for me. I have gone into a bar to meet-up and off one of my regulars to find that he is already sitting with a customer. This has happened to me several times with one of the more popular boys in Winner Boys, Dah. Disappointed I will sit with my drink and look for an opportunity to make eye contact with him if he hasn't spotted me first. He will usually make an excuse to go to the toilet, and either make eye contact again as he does so and either smile or give a discrete little wave, or else he will swing by me on his way back and very quickly say if he thinks his current customer is just there for a drink, or maybe a possible off. So I either stay and wait my turn, or move-on accordingly, as Dah usually calls it correctly. But I echo the advice that the boy isn't yours for the night until you have offed-him and his off-fee is sitting in your bin. On the other hand I often go into a bar and just want a boy to sit and drink with, and I usually tell the boy/mamasan (so that the boy understands), that this will just be a drink or two and if he sees a potential customer come into the bar, he is entirely free to say goodbye to me and go and try and get an off elsewhere. Doesn't happen very often, but I would feel guilty if my drink and usual 100 baht tip spoiled a boy's chances for a short-time.

a Mamasan told me that, until the boy is "offed" he's available still....I saw someone with a customer that I was with before and wanted to off again. But I was shy (I was still new). She asked if I wanted him again, I said yes, paid his off and she told him to get dressed and come with me. I felt awkward for a moment, but reminded me of Filene's Basement (Boston reference, Reader will get) It's not yours until you've taken it to the check out...... These guys are there to make money, not sit and chit chat all night long not knowing if the customer will be a customer.....they prefer the sure thing over 100 Baht tip.

I'm thinking what I would do if I were in your shoes. Probably ask mamasan to move the boy's drink and respective bill to John's table?

With looking for bottoms, I just used to just go it alone and make my determination with the boy itself. That often lead to me picking a boy that I think would be a bottom, but after him sitting with me and some talking, he will often that not will say he is a top. I've since learned to depend on the mamasan, I usually have one trusted one in almost every bar, and usually the mamasan will list the boys that are bottoms by their numbers onstage. I invite the one that I think would be the most attractive, and then I make sure he is a bottom by asking him directly. I'm sure he has me as Generic Asian Face. The were shirtless, but with pants, when I was there. LOL. They can return the favor and open Lucky Boys back up!

I guess my easily over 2,000 visits to Sunee Plaza is an understanding without practical knowledge? Not quite! Admittedly, I have not been there but 5 times in last two years, but I still think I have ample practical knowledge. My high falutin idea is to pay for services rendered and to pay a good amount commensurate with that service.

I was waiting for the part where you ended up in a 3-way (or more) with other guys from the gym.....🤨

I probably should have just said "another board member" in hindsight, it was a tongue-in-cheek joke, but a lively group and welcome sight for a quiet night in Sunee.

Agree completely with giving the lads a good time. Last week I took 4 bar lads to Koh Larn, they showed me a better beach, had lunch, some went on a jet ski. That evening they invited me to drink with them on the beach. They can show us a good time in other ways than sex. I think bar lads like all the tips, unless they're bizarrely on the low side. And when it's raining a lot, like now in Bangkok, and there are few customers, we can be more generous.

I pay 300 and a drink in Nice Boys for a guy to chuck wow. But it usually doesn’t stop at one and the bill adds up. I tipped a guy who gave me a nice hand job in the pulpit 1,000 baht. I overpaid probably but he was very happy with the tip. He watched me play pool at their pool bar and applauded evert time I made a good shot.

Something similar happened to me a few nights ago, but it wasn't as serious as the OP's incident. It was resolved quickly and I didn't have to contemplate any further action. When I entered the gogo bar, there were only 3 other customers. Each had a boy sitting with him. With so few customers, it's easy to note who was with whom. All 3 customers were on one side of the bar but I chose to sit on the opposite side, facing them. I fancied a boy who was then on stage and signalled to him to come sit with me. That he did and we remained seated together for some 20 minutes before I needed to go pee. In those 20 minutes, we had some discussion about what he would or would not do in the room and his expected fee. I think my boy was pretty sure that we would soon be striking a deal, though I hadn't yet said so explicitly. Just before I went to the bathroom, I happened to notice one of the customers ("John" for now) releasing the boy who had been seated next to him. I couldn't tell if they had agreed on an off or not. When I got back from the bathroom, John was talking to the boy who was sitting with me. He had come over from the other side of the bar to do so. I took my seat wondering a little what a reasonable response from me should be. I don't want to use terms like 'proprietorial rights' but I felt that common courtesy and respect for others' spaces were being called into question. After all, I have been in situations myself where, walking into a bar, a boy recognized me and initiated a hello. My response would typically be to return the hello with a smile and little more, but also a smile and nod to whichever customer was then with him. And move away. In this case, john continued talking to the boy even after I took my seat, ignoring my presence. But the boy was smart enough to resolve the situation. He nudged himself closer to me and placed a hand on my thigh. Meanwhile, I looked straight at john. Don't know if one might call it a glare. He moved away and exited the bar. Obviously he had not offed the guy he had been sitting with. I asked my boy whether he had met john before. The boy said no. Five minutes later, I off'ed my guy and forgot about the incident until I read about your experience.

This thread is getting toxic - which is a shame. A couple of observations if I may please: Lets keep with my experiences in Nice Boys in Sunee Plaza and take one boy in particular, Dui, who I have been seeing a few years now on my regular holidays to Pattaya. If I off him and take him back to my room, I pay him 2k baht. An exPat friend who visits the bar a couple of times a week, only pays him 1,000 baht to go back to his apartment. And if my long, long time feels horny at any time and wants this lad to come and fuck him in his room, he pays him 200 or 300 baht. Different rates from different folk to the same boy for essentially the same service, but Dui is happy with all his 'customers'. Secondly, how much you pay a lad for a Chuck Wow, or a short time, or whatever sexual service, is, for me at least, only part of the equation. It's also about how you treat the lad while he is with you, the respect you show him, the little kindnesses you show him. Taking him out to eat, to drink, or to party in a karaoke bar, or whatever?; showing him a good time while he is with you. I have a small gang of 'regulars now' from various bars, some gay, some straight, but lads I have known for up to six or seven years now and we frequently go out of an evening together. I believe I pay them reasonably, perhaps a little too reasonably sometimes, but although I remain their 'customer', I like to think we are also friends. But, if we are friends, it is as much to do with how I treat them as how much I pay them

My opinion: If the boy initiated it -500 baht If you initiated it, I agree with TotallyOz - minimum of 1000 baht, emphasis on minimum, especially if he reciprocated. That's my recommendation for Pattaya. Bangkok, you would probably be expected to pay at least 500 baht more. Also, I forget where I read it - I think it was a z909 post - saying there is nothing wrong with negotiating the price, even sitting right there. I agree. Some might feel awkward about it, but I think one would end up feeling a whole lot more awkward if you are planning to tip 500 and the boy is expecting 2000. So, this is where "business before pleasure" comes in.

I have just looked up prices for October on their website and they want 1000 baht per night. I then looked at Booking.com and the price is indeed 3000. Try booking on their website or by email. I emailed for a trip in August and it’s 1000 per night. https://www.theagatepattaya.com/

I always wonder why so many people - even hotels - use the term "high tea" when it should be "afternoon tea". High tea is a totally separate meal that always includes one cooked dish and is generally taken around 6:00 pm. That said, i agree afternoon tea in the Mandarin-Oriental's Author's Lounge is a wonderully extravagant experience. But check beforehand if it will actually be served in the Lounge as that is frequently booked up for weddings. The last time I was there, afternoon tea was being served in the lobby. But the thread is about Sunday brunch. I have no hesitation of nominating the Sukhothai on Sathorn. It offers so much and an amazing variety you really should starve for days beforehand. But like all hotel Sunday brunches, it is really expensive. I also dislike the live jazz offered in many hotel Sunday bruch offerings. On the few occasions I go for Sunday brunch, I hate live music. I go with friends and want to chat without having to shout!

I will be visiting Bangkok for just a few days. What are your top recommendations for gay bars and massage venues? Thank you!

This is the 3rd time this has happened in the last 25 years of coming to Pattaya but still it makes me angry. The other night I'm in a bar bought the boy a drink, sitting next to each other,the boy says hello to John or whatever his name was, john sees the boy with me but ignores me and sits on the other side of the boy. John completely oblivion to me starts chatting to the boy who turns his chair to John. Now john didn't bother to buy the boy a drink but obviously knew him as a customer I was going to say something to John but thought let it go This once before happened to me in about 2009 in Sunee Plaza which a farang butted in and bought the boy a drink whilst he already had one !! Just right in front of me got on the other side of the boy and bought him a drink !! Me sitting there looking a dummy ! , I then walked away leaving the boy and the Farang , later he went too and the boy came back to me in the bar ,I just paid the boy drink without tip and left too after that ! But guys !! Surely Surely you must SEE the boy is SITTING with another farang ???? Why would you do that ? Should I get into a physical fight with the interfering farang? Its just plain rude surely you are not that ignorant? Is it a power play ? Have to feel like your powerful ?

I will take his statement svery suspiciously as boys tend to exaggerated how desperate are they to make you sorry for them and increase their tip.

is a checking account from what I know ....Dynamic Conversion is the same whether it's at an ATM or a POS terminal....only the banks make money, you don't.

Well, I was in my elevator today and I smelled weed. I continued to the first floor and the guy got out and went to the Grab taxi driver and got a bag. The bag had a smiley face on it and a weed symbol. I am not shy so I asked him and he said, "yes, they all deliver now to your door." I thought this might be a little hard to get but after talking to him and then asking others, it is just as easy here as ordering Pizza. I was shocked that a country that just recently incarcerated people for long times for this, is now so open and visible.

His entourage? Was it the whole cast of a nearby bar? Sorry if my joke is inappropriate.

But there's a difference you mention. Your not approaching the boy ! If your sitting with a boy ( in a beer bar) ,bought him a drink and was sitting next to him chatting and I came along sat on the other side and either started talking to him or bought him a drink, that's the difference

It's called dynamic currency conversion,best explained here: https://thepointsguy.com/2015/06/dynamic-currency-conversion/

Unlikely. No boy would remain seated in place if a customer had left. Moreover, my drink, check bin and knapsack were still there. And with so few customers in a bar, just as I could see who was doing what, I am sure others could see that I had headed to the bathroom rather than the opposite direction to the door.

I have been trying to keep up with availability of Jynneos from my local health dept in DC - VA suburbs (it has been available from the DC dept of health for a few weeks, but only for District residents and apparently they run out of appointment slots quite quickly when posted). Online information from VDH to date has indicated that vaccine availability is limited to contacts of known cases. But saw a guy with a PSA on Scruff tonight who advised that if you call the county health dept and let them know you are a MSM with multiple sexual contacts in the last 14 days, they will schedule an appointment for you. Planning to call tomorrow and will report back…

I agree. We won’t know how HE felt about the tip until the next time he encounters OP. Unless, of course, there was a clear reaction right after the interaction that we do not know about. In general, I believe that tipping should include 1. Minimum for the time spent + 2. Compensation for any extra services provided above the expected minimum based on the quality of that experience. I don’t believe in capping the maximum tips - it really depends on an individual to whom the services are rendered. There’s nothing worse than underpaying someone who puts himself out there for you pleasure and satisfaction. as far as the PDA is concerned, in any human interaction, one’s behavior should be based on reading the room and the person with whom you’re interacting. If at any point your partner does not feel comfortable with your actions, you should stop and look for an alternate location, or partner.

Two weeks ago I booked the Agate for 4 nights in September, still for the discounted 1000 baht per night.... Never stayed there before but I thought a good price for how the hotel looked in the pictures. Happy to read so many positive feedback about the hotel. Happy me.

Great list of tips 12is12, thanks for putting them all together. If I may, I'd like to add some restaurant/eating suggestions. Since I stayed in Poblado, these are mostly in Poblado. El Social - was a great place to try typical Colombian food. There were two locations that I saw, one is on the corner of Carrera 36 and Calle 10B. They have a chalkboard with daily lunch specials. With an appetizer (an arepa with hogao, soup, plate with meat, potatoes, rice, salad, plus the daily juice) it ran less than $5 (a few grilled items were a little more expensive - with juice not included). This is where I sampled typical Colombian food - ajiaco, sudado de pollo, sudado de posta, etc. It was all good. The steak was really good. My favorite thing was a grilled chicken breast (pechuga) with fries and a salad. It's busy from 12-1, but after 1 the lunch crowd clears out. All outside seating, great place for people watching. In the evening, it converts to a drinking hangout. I highly recommend it. Il Castello - great Italian food - homemade pasta, pizza, bread made in-house. A little pricey, but not bad. On Calle 10A and Carrera 40. Aguasfrescas - high end Mexican food. It was a reminder for me that Mexican food is actually high cuisine. No burritos and chimichangas. This was my most expensive meal in Medellin. Really good cochinita pibil tacos (Yucatec Mayan food), I splurged for a white sangria (which was why my meal was so expensive) - really beautiful space, delicious food, You can also order a lot of food from Rappi to be delivered - one of my favorites was from Pane y Pomodoro - delicious Neopolitan style pizza. I also enjoyed the food courts in the malls. Definitely visit El Tesoro, which is a beautiful mall up in the hills with amazing views of Medellin. I had a great tomahawk steak there that was perfectly cooked. Yes, steak at a food court! Also, Santa Fe Mall is very nice and has a very extensive food court. For coffee, I recommend Pergamino. There's a nice spot on Calle 10B a few steps down the hill from El Social. Delicious coffee, breakfasts and desserts. Seating on an outside deck if you can get there before the digital nomads occupy the place. Great spot for people watching. My favorite breakfast (I'm not a breakfast person) was pinches huevos. I'm now hooked on Pergamino coffee and just ordered two pounds to be delivered. No surprise that Colombia has good coffee, but this was the best. Not in Poblado, but in Envigado, a small city/town next to Poblado that is not actually Medellin - La Gloria de Gloria - a Colombian friend took me there for bandeja paisa - it was huge and we split it. Even though we went for lunch, we were served aguardiente (fire water) during our meal - three shots. It was a lot of fun, and Envigado is a nice place to check out. Colombian food is pretty basic - meat and potatoes - vegetables were scarce. But the quality of the food was good. I could tell it was local and fresh, and best of all, it's cheap!

I tipped 500 ,bought him a drink,sucked his dick around 10 minutes

I can only comment on the suck and tug bars of Sunee Plaza. Nice Boys will serve as an examplar, For Chuck Wows to finish, assisted or otherwise, 300 baht is expected. General handling of the goods, even the odd taste, 100-200 is expected. Anything in excess would no doubt be appreciated, but certainly not expected. Nice Boys Bar still has plenty of boys and no shortage of customers. (The old Goodboys and Eros Bar was also 300 baht for a Chuck Wow - rising to maybe 500 if they reciprocated for you; or 1k plus if they fucked you in the bar as well.) Winner Boys is less hands-on, but the occasional Chuck Wows merit the same level of tips. I am not aware of any Chuck Wow bars in Jomtien, or even Boyztown now?

I can appreciate that, and while I do consider myself resourceful and willing to put in the effort before asking for help, I was hoping you all could weigh in with the BEST options during this unique time as we start to recover from the pandemic (July 2022). In response to a couple of the questions…I’m more interested in muscly guys and a muscly masseur - but not the full works. Also looking for gay bars with a friendly clientele (and workers) that preferably attracts more gay men than straight women. Thank you!

"Over the odds"? He's not at the track, betting on the outcome of a race.. He's sexually servicing--and being serviced by--by a young man. I don't think this is something to be reduced to a mathematical equation. But let's for the sake of argument pretend that it is. You deep kiss a 60+ guy in a bar for 20 minutes in front of your peers and strangers. How much do you think you'd deserve? Probably north of $35. You may try to fool yourself with terms like "business model" but their are other terms applicable in this situation.

IMHO, you suck the boy, a minimum of 1,000 baht.

K-Man Spa sent me loads of boys’ pictures over Line. I knew that they couldn’t possibly all be there and waiting for customers and that I was expected to pre-book. So I assiduously went through all the pictures and shortlisted four. I Lined back and asked which might be available at a certain time. It took no more than 10 minutes for the reply that one of them was, and so an appointment was fixed. Although I gave myself 45 minutes to get to Saphan Kwai BTS station, the BTS ride, including changing trains at Siam, took only about 20 minutes. Adding in walking time from Raya Hotel to Saladaeng station, it took me just 30 minutes at most. K-Man Spa was just down the stairs from Saphan Khwai at the southeast corner of the station; it took no time at all to get to its front door. The chosen – let’s call him Teyko – was waiting. After the brief protocols in the reception where the manager asked me to choose the aroma oil and where I was served some cold water, Teyko led me to the third floor (i.e. fourth level) where the room was. Based on a quick glance, they seem to have assigned the first floor as a waiting area for the boys, and the massage rooms are all on the second and third floors. Anyone with difficulty with steep stairs might want to think twice. The room had a massage table, with a perfectly serviceable face-cradle occluded by a bed sheet. This practice is so common in Thailand, I am no longer surprised. It didn’t come with an attached shower. This was down the hallway. Teyko commenced the massage in his towel – which wasn’t a good sign, but after about 15 minutes, it was dropped without any need for me to tug it away. He began with dry presses before proceeding to oil. He knew quite a few different strokes, which means he’s been through proper training, but his pressure was on the light side. It is not easy for masseurs to know how much pressure a client likes, and so it is important to tell him. Still, he had a tendency to revert to his usual, relatively light pressure a little while each time after I told him to increase it. Although I had booked a 90-minute, I was disappointed too with the coverage. In 60 minutes, I don’t expect the massage to cover much more than the basic areas: back of legs, back and shoulders. In 90 minutes, I’d expect attention to more areas as well, such as the arms, front of legs, and chest. Teyko didn’t seem to have a clearly defined programme that distinguished between 60 and 90 minutes. The afters were enjoyable enough though. He was easily hard. That said, I don’t think I am a demanding person and should be easy to please. At this point, some readers may be hoping for a blow by blow account, but sorry, it’s not my style to get to that level of detail. What I can say is that Teyko was an S2 according to ShamelessMack's "famous" classification system. To round off the session, he offered to shower with me - an offer gladly accepted. He was sweet and good-looking but unfortunately, he spoke next to no English and there is only that much one can do through Google Translate. So, much as I’d like to, I found out very little about him. In total, I spent about one hour 25 minutes there. K-Man Spa’s pricelist showed 60-minutes to be 500 baht for oil massage (550 for aroma massage) and 600 baht for 90-minutes. The manager mentioned something about a minimum tip of 1,000 baht. Their advertising mentioned something about promotions, but either I was outside the applicable time period or it was conveniently forgotten in my case. Overall – would I go back to K-Man Spa again? Yes. Would I choose Teyko again? I think so.

Day 4 No problems with early rising and rinsing, at 7.30 on the dot we entered world famous , jimbill joined us there and after breakfast we hailed taxi and went to the Grand Palace. Taxi from Silom was less than 100 .There is some construction so we circulated a bit to find entrance , they made sure we are not wearing shorts. Tickets are 500 , Thais free. Since S is Cambodian I paid for his ticket. Visit was a treat, just like private tour due to early hour and sparse crowds. Even Emerald Buddha temple we had almost to ourselves. We were also pleased with S as he clearly was interested in sights , tried to explain to us some motives and rituals. That was pleasant contrast with last time I was there with a guy who couldn’t wait until we go back. Wat Po with Reclining Buddha is walking distance but ever stylish we took tuk-tuk to take us there, 50 baht for good start of the day for driver. The same situation , few visitors, while in normal times seeing Reclining Buddha is testing patience, fact well testified by signs on the floor ‘wait here” and so on. Us three and perhaps two Japanese girls was all crowd in the grand hall with statue. Instead taxi or MRT ( Sanam Luang station nearby is very impressive ) we decided to go by the river to walked to a Wat Arun ferry nearby. They made us waiting 15 minutes so we had some beer and S called him Mom in Cambodia proudly showing her farangs he was guide of , at least this is how he presented us I presume. Don’t believe he said ,”mom , tonight I slept with that grey haired guy in glasses, he snores like saw mill “. Ferry is whole 4 baht , 25% rise from Decemver when I paid only 3. From Wat Arun we took tourist boat to Saphan Taksin at 50 a piece for single trip and there by BTS to Silom where we parted our ways. Than you both gentlemen for such interesting trip. Jet lag is still there so I had some rest in the room, went to change money as at those tip rates is almost daily ritual, did some laundry and at dark to soi 4 for my daily schnitzel .I truly don’t like soi 4 and never did but somehow this trip I’m frequenting it daily, shame on me. After dinner to Hot Male downstairs bar for chat with paulsf, jimbill and bar boys there with Alex behind the counter and tiny Laotioan clingy as always. From my rotation today was supposed to be Jupiter day so it’s where we went to feast on their handsome guys , in process to get frozen and deaf at the same time. A/C was set waaaaaaaaaaaaay too low and sound volume waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high. We had out drinks , watched the show and parade of their semi-gods looking great and even greater but lacking smiles as always but due to noise it was impossible to say and hear the word so with great relief we left that noisy Arctic and I went to Tawan . I wanted to off Dum who fortunately was available and I sensed , upon seeing me full of hope today will be his turn. It was late so not much time in bar, drink , off fee and off we went to Raya. Since I offed him few times in the past he had all advantages of known quality. Wanted 4000, I offered 3000, he reluctantly but wisely agreed . Why wisely ? Because that was max I ordered myself to offer for tonight. K, hero of my first night no doubt told him what he got as they are friends and hailing from the same city but muscle beats belly any time in my books and he knew it. But there are very few babies in the world who have such silky skin Dum has. So I finished day 4 holding 30 y.o. baby in my arms.

yes but on pain of being impolite - who is asking you ? It was me who paid that after all and I was with the guy so I can assess if fee is excessive or not knowing what I got in exchange . You can say is that it's a lot of money and it's easy to get some company for much less but qualify expense ? Not enough information I'd say. There are not many countries and probably none in the West where we can get 1st class guy for 5000 baht for the whole night, quick mutual blow job in toilet on platform 5 perhaps yes, but overnight? Nothing wrong with setting ceiling , like yours 3000, mine simply is 2000 more perhaps because guys I like are somewhat rarer on the market . That's price ceiling we put on our dreams I guess. But by setting such restriction we need to accept that we may be missing some really hot action with even hotter guys.