Leaderboard

The gay scene has not left Thailand. While the physical manifestations of it have temporarily retreated, the gay scene certainly continues to exist in the consciousness of Thais and foreigners alike. Gays certainly do not suddenly become non-gay because their favorite venues are not available at the moment. Their inclinations and desires persist. Our identities exist in our minds, and for a while longer we'll have to be content to live off those memories. And for those still in the country, the gay scene--as mentioned above--is accessible electronically. Even if the hi-so proponents may wish to sweep "sex capital of the world" from the narrative of guide books, the gay scene will continue because it's an irrepressible force of nature: the nature of men who have sex with men. One of the pleasures of international travel is that gay men still understand how to find like-minded individuals, even if there's a lack of venues. And beyond looking on line, there's always the eyes. Isn't that how we spotted other gays before any of the electronics existed? If you walk down Silom, or just about any crowded road, and can't find a local guy who may be interested in sex--or at least getting to know you, you're probably not paying attention. Despite the naysayers' claims, Thailand is not suddenly about to reverse form. Bangkok is not going to become London; Pattaya not St. Kitts. Even the Tourism Authority (TAT) acknowledged Thursday that getting tourists back to Bangkok is job one: "The worsening Covid-19 situation in Thailand has led the Tourism and Sports Ministry to reconsider the country's reopening strategy, admitting some target destinations are still marred by soaring infections. However, the ministry insists on reopening Bangkok by this year as the capital is the heart of the tourism industry in Thailand." There are gloomy days ahead. Opening plans will be delayed. But the government is all too well aware that it must get the doors reopened. The transportation infrastructure and hospitality sector haven't gone away. More important, tourists from across the globe have not forgotten why they want to return. When the great cities of the world get back into the tourism business, they, too, know that what made them so damn successful in the first place is something that should not be tampered with. Whether it's Rio, Paris, New York, London, Tokyo or Bangkok, tourists will want more of the same. Count on it.

thanks God, finally I will be able to force myself to go visit Sukhotai, long dream of mine

You're right about the gay scene changes in the other major cities you cite. It's agreed that much of the activity has moved on line. But I'm making the case that Thailand--Bangkok, in particular--is different. I don't think that there's any debating that increasing wealth is a main factor in the rising numbers of gay Asians arriving in Bangkok over the past decade. But we've witnessed the positive effect this has had on the sustainability of venues in the Silom/Surawong area. They make it possible for the places that we all attend to thrive. It was the virus that curtailed not only westerners but Asians alike (and when I say westerners, I included those from Australia and New Zealand). The return of gay visitors will be slow and unpredictable because no one can chart the future of the virus. That, I maintain, is the biggest factor in how this all plays out. If Thailand can get its act together and muster an effective response, sometime next year gays worldwide will be more comfortable in returning in numbers. But they won't be coming to enjoy a "new" Thailand. They will be returning to the same conditions that attracted them in 2019: a lot of sanuk and an ample helping of sleaze. When it comes to gay men, the sleaze factor should never be underestimated. Too much sleaze has been drained out of western cities over the past 40 years. That has helped propel Thailand into the go-to destination for those who craze it. We relish the rough edges that places like Bangkok and Pattaya provide. We've heard many posters describe the experience of arriving in bkk with feelings of euphoria even before they make it to the arrivals hall. You don't get that arriving in London or New York. Bangkok is unique in this respect. It's that enchantment, mixed with a generous amount of passion, I'm counting on to make all the difference.

I am sure that is correct. And your overview is excellent. However, whilst there will always be gay men and the apps (and whatever succeeds them) will be there perhaps even in more abundance, I can not agree that change will not happen. It always does. Cities constantly change. But whereas the cities of the world know what made them successful in the past and will want to revert to something like that model, it absolutely does not follow that the commercial gay scene will remain as it was. The foreigner commercial gay scene is just a minuscule speck in the overall economy of Thailand. It's disappearance - or reappearance in an even more reduced form - will do virtually nothing for the overall economy. We know from other posters in this new Gay Guides forum that the commercial gay scenes in some European cities like Prague, Amsterdam and London are nothing like what they used to be some years ago. We know that here in Thailand Chiang Mai was once a gay haven. It certainly was in the mid-1980s and 1990s. But it has been dying for years with more than 50 gay venues of all kinds closed. I remember when Phuket was fun for gay men with lots of great times with the boys from Young Sharks, My Way and other gogo and beer bars. Now Phuket's gay scene is on life support. I remember having good times at gay saunas in Ubon Ratchanthani and Khon Kaen in the early 2000s. Are they still there? Even if they are, how many gay tourists primarily seeking sex venture out that far? As we know from past posts in other threads, there is an entire world of gay bars and places of gay entertainment for Thai gays of which western expats and tourists know nothing. And even if we did know about it, we would not be permitted to enter. So as far as gays not suddenly becoming non-gays, @readeris certainly correct. But this thread is primarily about western tourists. That is a very different kettle of tom yum goong! The fact is that almost all gay tourists will continue to seek happiness in Bangkok and Pattaya. So many of the gay venues have closed over the years and there are fewer and fewer in Bangkok's central tourist area. As mentioned in other threads, land in Bangkok's central area is becoming too expensive. In both cities many bars have closed. Some will hope to reopen eventually, perhaps a new one or two may appear, but others will be closed for good. In my thinking, the essential question that needs to be addressed is less how many will reopen and much more will a flood of new western visitors anxious to visit gay gogo bars, saunas, discos etc. arrive in time to make those who do actually reopen commercially viable? The gay tourist trade will certainly not return overnight. It may take some years before it returns even to 2019 levels. Can it ever return to 2000 levels? No! We know that the supply of western gay tourists has been drying up over the last dozen and more years. We know that the new breed of Asian gay tourist has more or less different ideas of fun compared to the westerners of old (many of whom are indeed now older) for whom gogo bars were vital to enjoyment. I know I will continue to be called a glass half empty type of guy. But I have witnessed the gay scene for four decades. In that time I have seen its steady and continuing decline. The decline is not merely limited to Thailand. Something is happening to change the commercial gay scene in other cities. Quite probably it is due to the rise in the popularity of the apps. In Tokyo we know that the area for gay bars in the Shinjuku-ni-chome area has been significantly reduced and something like a quarter of the bars (mostly those only for Japanese customers) have died. Bars in the next most popular district of Ueno are for Japanese only and so I have no information on that. Within Asia the one gay market that continues to expand is Taipei. Again, though, this is fed almost exclusively by locals and other Asians because westerners rarely consider Taiwan a vacation destination. When @readersays "Count on it", I believe he is correct in one respect. The commercial straight scene with the girlie bars, ping pong shows (do they still have these?) and nearly nude young ladies will still be around and is unlikely to change much. Sadly the commercial gay scene as we all used to know it will continue to decline. What remains will be geared very much to local Thais and Asian tourists.

or a US visa

Yes this is exactly what I feel like arriving to the gates of heaven The problem is not only with Thailand restrictions on opening their borders but with our countries limiting us of traveling abroad .even it Thailand will eventually open the borders there is no guarantee that our native land will allow us to travel there or applying serious restrictions for traveling .

Not to worry. Eventually this dispute will be settled by the careful and orderly examination of documents and compromise by the relative parties.

Getting oggled while young is an experience that pretty much every woman has had.

That is a very good point, hardly ever acknowledged or admitted. I loved NYC back in the 90s precisely because of that factor. Which in turn did lead to that feeling of anticipation and euphoria prior to arrival: Not anymore in NYC, but in the 90s for sure (see above)!!

really? Unbelievable, and proves PetrRS's point that actually, it was never out of disarray at all

And that is surely a big, big problem for Thailand, especially with the local Astra Zeneca manufacturer having once again reduced the supply it was contracted to provide. Instead of 61 million doses by the end of this year, the company needs another 5 months until May before it fulfils its contractual commitment. But even at 61 million doses, that still only vaccinates 30.5 million people - less than half the country. Now the government is panicking and buying up as much Sinovac as it can while a charity is buying Sinopharm. Yet we know from the last few days that some people having had two Sinovac vaccinations now have tested positive for the virus again, including one medical professional who has died. With calls for those given Sinovac to be given a booster shot, the government is yet again in total disarray. Private hospitals are also waiting for approval for the numbers of Moderna vaccine they can purchase with planned commencement of vaccinations in October. i wish that everyone could be vaccinated by the end of the year. With less than 5% presently having been given the required two doses, my gut tells me getting anywhere near 50% by year end will be a massive exercise. Will the gates open in time for the main tourist season in the first six months of next year? My guess is as good as anyone's.

From Channel News Asia Protesters denounce Thai PM for COVID-19 pandemic handling Pro-democracy protesters gather at Democracy Monument before marching to Government House to demand the resignation of Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha in Bangkok on Jul 18, 2021. (Photo: Lillian SUWANRUMPHA / AFP) BANGKOK: Thai police deployed water cannon against protestors in Bangkok on Sunday (Jul 18) as demonstrators defied COVID-19 restrictions to call for Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-Cha's resignation and mark the one-year anniversary of a pro-democracy movement. The kingdom is currently facing its worst-ever COVID-19 wave, registering record numbers of cases daily as hospitals buckle under pressure. Exacerbating the toll has been the government's slow procurement of vaccines for the public, which has drawn criticism from all sides as Thailand's economy is kneecapped by increasingly severe restrictions on businesses. Defying rules prohibiting gatherings of more than five people, protesters piled mock body bags with red paint near the intersection of the capital's Democracy Monument ahead of their march on Government House. They were led by a frontline group wearing gas masks and hard hats and were joined by motorbike drivers who hoisted the body bags on their vehicles. "We will die from COVID if we stay home, that is why we have to come out," shouted a protest organiser, who listed three demands.

It's funny how we complain when it's almost impossible for a great part of the world to get a Schengen visa :-)

I believe that stupid policy has been revised...due to hospitals being full ...well there’s a surprise!

I loved the grandmother character. I can see why the film has caught on. The conflict the son has to deal with hits home.

The Yearbook the series start yesterday.

why would hospital imply serious? I'm sure you must be aware of the absurd Thai policy of the Covid Jail (my term)? Everyone, as in 100%, who tests positive here get's put in a hospital. Where hospital can range from field hospital to hospitel (a repurposed hotel similar to quarantine) or a real hospital. There is no escaping, even if 100% symptom free. No home quarantine allowed. Hence the term "covid jail" is the only appropriate one IMO. Totally absurd. And a reason why I no longer check in at malls or shops using the Thai Chana Line-app and would avoid getting a test at all cost. I rather do a home test (apparently they are finally being sold here since Thursday I was told, but I previdoulsly had a source) when in doubt and self-isolate and go to a hospital only if I were to develop symptoms.

Sounds like a get rich money scam rather than insurance. With these around, no wonder covid cases in thailand cant go down hehe.

The difference is, that in Europe testing was and is EVERYWHERE. Here, testing is (almost) NOWHERE. It only happens at select places that the authorities pick and chose, and from the few that go to get themselves tested voluntarily IF they can find a place that will do it. Don't look at the raw numbers, which indeed look not TOO bad. But the real numbers are guaranteed to be vastly higher than that, not just somewhat higher like in Europe. Things will not improve here in any meaningful way anytime soon. One reason is vaccination is progressing at a snails pace and is in complete shambles with no procurement strategy that would deserve the label "strategy". Another reason is protests flaring up again, driving the urge to impose more restrictions.

it's not a health insurance at all, it's more like a covid lottery: if you test positive, you get a lump sum, that's it. Symptoms or not, necessity of treatment, treatment expenses, all irrelevant. Many indeed see it as a way to potentially make some money to cover for lost income due to crisis. I know one boy, who recently told me he bought no less than three such policies! I don't know the details of those and didn't ask, but it sounded like they were all less than 500 Baht in premium, and payouts something like 50k or 100k, maybe 200k.

Only for phuket model i believe. Coming in and quarantine 14days doesnt have to be vaccinated.

To be blunt, the gay scene in Patong wasn't much cop on my first visit in 1997. Pre-app , of course. In the far-off days of a vibrant Boyztown, it offered a preview (on reflection) of what the future held for our beloved Pattaya.

@Latbear4blk Thank you so much for the interesting posts and photos on your trip home to BA I know it must take a lot of time to put your posts together but this forum member for one has really appreciated them. I'm a 74 year old living with my partner in Thailand and I guess I will never get to South America but posts like yours are a substitute. Wishing you a safe journey

Right now I am waiting in my airbnb for a car service that will pick me up and take me to Ezeiza. At today's exchange rate, it costs me U$S 12.33. Just finished packing. Yesterday, I got my airbnb's hostess to refund me almost 90 bucks. On Wednesday, I went to the Lab to get my covid test, ready for a fight. My appointment was August 2nd, and I thought that I had a better chance walking up to their site instead of calling. No fight was needed, the whole process was delightful. They even refunded me money, as I had paid for a PCR test. As the well known lazy dilettante I am, I did not research properly and just assumed that the PCR test needed to entry Argentina was a universal demand. Fortunately, this lazy dilettante feeds from the wisdom of the real experts. Thanks to the friend @floridarob, I learned that you need a rapid antigen test to entry the US. I had paid for a test that costs twice what I needed. However, not only everyone was super friendly and accommodating, from the security guard to the nurses, not only they administered the test without an appointment that day, but they algo gave me back half of the money. I ended paying U$S 20 for the rapid test. I could have gotten it for free in the public system, but did not want to take the risk of a delay in case they were overwhelmed. If you happen to be in Buenos Aires, I strongly recommend LABORATIORIO ROSSI. I actually chose them amongst the recommendations in the US embassy website. They have a very friendly user portal to set appointments and pay, and several locations in the city. They told me that the results could take up to 24 hours. A few minutes after I walked in back to my airbnb, I was receiving an email with a link to my negative result. Sweet. These last days I walked a little bit for Monserrat and San Telmo, which are more or less Buenos Aires Historic District. This is a representative view: My iPhone is not very good at taking the images without adding light everywhere (or I do not know how to use it properly), and you cannot appreciate in this pictures how daylight is fading, and classic farolas are already lightning up in the background. This is a very popular neighborhood amongst foreigners. They mostly come on weekends, though, when these empty streets become very crowded, many of them closed for vehicular traffic and turned into only pedestrian. It is an area full with antiques stores, and an antiques street fair on weekends. As I am walking late and on a weekday, most stores are close, but you can see a few examples. Many blocks are filled with stores likes these ones. Also take a look at this picture, because if you visit Buenos Aires you will probably not recognize this place: It is the famous Plaza Dorrego, which is wrongly called "Placita San Telmo" by many. You would not recognize this place because you would probably visit on a weekend. Walking would be challenging in the crowd, and the space would be covered with stands offering antiques and art-craft. This was an area I used to visit a lot during the last years of the military dictatorship back in the early 80s. Back then, gays and lesbians would shelter in this area rather than Barrio Norte. I used to hang out in bars around Plaza Dorrego a lot. Then, during the second half of the 80s and the first of the 90s, I was involved in acting and directing theater in the local alternative circuit. I walked by the place where I took my first acting class. Now it is a typical store selling used furniture. It is also the Bohemian hood in Buenos Aires, where artists choose to live. Many of my artists friends still live there, and I am always visiting them. So not only I have been in this area in each of my visits to the city, but besides I'm very familiar with it. Of course I notice changes like old stores gone and new ones arrived, but everything else is pretty much the same. I do not see the blooming change I saw in Palermo, a mostly unknown territory for me. This is a very alive area at night in non pandemic times, almost as much as Palermo. Last night I wanted to say goodbye with a boom, but my plans went wrong. They started surprisingly well, and then they went in a very wrong direction. At 4 pm I received Y, my Venezuelan friend. I think I shared before that our sex was not so satisfactory and we were drifting towards a "clean" friendship. Well, we had an amazing chemistry. Not only the sex rapport was intense, but the whole interaction was very warm and fulfilling. We had a shower together, and oral sex while bathing each other. Then we continued making out and we were about to have full sex when we realized it was 7:30. I had made an appointment at 8 with one of my favorite local escorts. We had been even fucking for free, and I wanted to say goodbye paying him his new fee (thanks to my advertising he has now a new and higher fee) in full, and having amazing sex. I had warned him I may be saying goodbye to a friend when he arrived at 8. When Y and I realized it was 7:30, we decided to smoke a quick joint and have some more oral sex instead of fucking. I was eating his ass when my date rang 15 mins before scheduled. I went down to bring him up, and warned him that he had interrupted us because he came in earlier. Everything seemed to be OK. I am not going to enter in details from here. The point is that he was completely disrespectful and dismissive of my dear friend, with all the racist and xenophobic attitudes that trigger me. You all know how easy I am to trigger with these things. It is not only online. After walking Y out, apologizing for the bad moment (he was shaking, trying to control his rage), I came back furious and had a two hours very uncomfortable conversation, and of course no sex. So I had that bad closing of my night. I am happy now because I have already talked several times with Y and he (we) is fine. Today I had a last lunch with home made cooking. After kissing goodbye my mom and sister, I came to my base to pack and here you have me. This is the last report I am posting in this thread. I think.

A friend just finished a 15 day quarantine in Bangkok in order to see his partner of many years. They were reunited 5 days ago. Today, there was a case of Covid in their building and they both tested positive for it. Very sad. Now, he is off to hospital for I would assume at least 2 weeks. He is schedule to fly back to US 2nd week of August so not much time with his partner or friends.

This comment does not only apply to Thailand. You could be talking about Australia here, too!