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Showing content with the highest reputation on 07/11/2021 in all areas

  1. We video chatted this morning. He knows I’m real now and he was even nice enough to give me a glimpse of what is underneath the swimsuits he models. I’m very much looking forward to my trip next month. Other than being caught off guard by the initial request, I have no idea why I didn’t just think of video chat in the first place. His picture is attached and I will be in Rio and SP from August 11th to the 16th, if you would like to see what I look like. I’m nowhere close to as attractive as he is but meeting some of the other members from on her could be fun and is something I’d like to try.
    4 points
  2. There was a long op-ed article in Friday's Bangkok Post that contains as damning an indictment of the government's actions in this time of covid 19 as I think I have read for any other government and any other crisis in the Kingdom for several decades. It was written by Professor Thitinan Pongsudhirak, a director of the Institue of Security and International Studies at Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Political Science. He earned a PhD from the London School of Economics in with a top dissertation prize in 2002. Headed "Is there a jab cover-up in Thailand?", I make no apologies for quoting it in full - with some passages which i have marked in bold. It has become common knowledge that Thailand's national vaccine plan is inadequate, full of loopholes, flip-flopping and even worse, and might not be enough to deal with the fluid threat and devastating impact of the coronavirus pandemic effectively. But vaccine mismanagement no longer appears to be the root cause of Thailand's Covid-19 trials and tribulations. There are three potentially related processes in motion that underpin Thailand's inadequate vaccine rollout. If all three are found to be at work, their profound and explosive implications and consequences will likely lead to an unprecedented political cataclysm. First, at a minimum, Thailand's vaccine plan has been a policy blunder. After one full year of grappling with virus outbreaks and infections from early 2020, Thailand ended up with just two vaccines, the British-Swedish AstraZeneca and the China-made Sinovac. Myriad criticisms have been levelled at the Prayut Chan-o-cha government's decision to procure AstraZeneca in an exclusive licensing deal with local manufacturer, Siam Bioscience. The policy blunder here is that AstraZeneca was set out late last year to be the country's primary vaccine. Betting on AstraZeneca as the main strategic vaccine, the authorities demurred from pursuing other well-known vaccines that neighbouring countries also had including Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna -- both US-made vaccines that subsequent clinical research showed as having more efficacy in dealing with virus mutations. When Siam Bioscience -- as the licensed manufacturer of AstraZeneca -- fell behind in delivering the previously agreed amount, the government did not provide the public with a clear answer about why and on finding a new substitute. Sinovac -- a China-made vaccine -- suddenly became the substitute until so much of it, 14.5 million doses to date, was purchased and sent from China that it has turned out to be Thailand's primary vaccine. Much has gone wrong within the realm of policy shortcomings. The lack of AstraZeneca, which is perceived as superior in efficacy to Sinovac, left people feeling short-changed. Criteria for accessing both vaccines at different stages were subjective and decided in executive session rather than on objectives based on older age groups, frontline professionals, and vulnerable workers, as is practised in more advanced and fairer countries. Apart from supply shortages, rollout has been slow and uneven. Access through internet applications, such as Mor Prom and Thai Ruam Jai, has been problematic and haphazard. When Sinopharm became the third vaccine that was suddenly purchased by the Chulabhorn Royal Academy (CRA) and delivered for local jabs at personal cost, the deal resulted in two-tier treatment with reports of some securing free jabs and others having to fork out 1,000 baht per shot. As public outrage intensified, the Prayut-led cabinet finally relented and approved a proposal to buy 20 million doses of Pfizer-BioNTech, and agreed to import an unspecified amount of Moderna on a commercial basis. People then started to question the government's shoddy vaccine strategy. If these two globally popular US-made vaccines are worthy of purchase and import now, why did the government waste precious time by not stocking them earlier. At the cabinet meeting, another lot of 10.9 million Sinovac doses worth 6.1 billion baht was ordered, even though its relatively lower efficacy is shrouded in doubt. Many other policy-related questions abound with few answers to meet them. Such a complete policy failure and breakdown is enough to undermine the government's stability. This is why the calls for Prime Minister Prayut's resignation are becoming louder. The second set of question marks involve the possibility that perhaps there is more than meets the eye in Thailand's vaccine procurement. The Sinovac vaccine is produced by China-based Sinovac Biotech; it has been reported by foreign media including the Washington Post, that its CEO bribed China's drug regulator for Sars and swine flu vaccine approval back in 2003-2006. The company, nevertheless, became a rising star for investment in biotech. Hong Kong-listed Sino Biopharmaceutical, with CP Pharmaceutical Group as a shareholder, invested $515 million, giving it a 15% stake in Sinovac Life Sciences, the unit in charge of the Sinovac vaccine. When Sinovac's efficacy is being questioned in Chile, Indonesia and elsewhere, where Sinovac-immunised people have contracted Covid variants, why has the Prayut cabinet kept ordering more and more of this Chinese vaccine instead of pursuing superior doses elsewhere? How come the Government Pharmaceutical Organization (GPO), whose board members are associated with the Bhumjaithai Party under Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul, seem hellbent on importing this vaccine, while seemingly being reluctant when it comes to procurement of the US-made vaccines that are reported to have more efficacy? Could it be that American companies are regulated by their country's Foreign Corrupt Practices Act? These are valid questions when the Prayut government has gambled the country's public health on limited choices and is reluctant to acquire better alternatives. Finally, as Thailand's Covid death toll rises steadily towards 3,000 and more people suffer untold hardships, the government's sordid policy and gross incompetence alone warrant its riddance. But if there is fishy business involved, the possibility of criminal lawsuits must come into the picture. Are people dying and succumbing to the virus because of policy shenanigans? To be sure, Thailand is not alone in suffering from the multiple crises of virus, variants, and vaccines. Other countries that did well last year in virus containment, such as South Korea and Taiwan, have also seen case spikes in recent weeks. But few countries are encountering Thailand's combination of doubtful policy, government mismanagement, and accused conflicts of interest, at the expense of public health and economic well-being. Thailand no longer has a free and open space for the investigative journalism needed to reveal what's behind these vaccine suspicions and irregularities. Opposition politicians are doing some of it but much more muckraking is imperative. The vaccine saga looks like a "vaccine-gate", full of questions with few answers so far. The more we know, the more we realise what we don't know and need to know. Getting to the bottom of Thailand's vaccine crisis as the virus situation goes from bad to worse will likely compound the political rumblings seen and heard last year, confirming this country is indeed overdue for fundamental reforms. https://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/2145731/is-there-a-jab-cover-up-in-thailand-
    4 points
  3. It's not disputed that the traffickers in Vietnam set this in motion. Those convicted in the UK, however, were much more than just unfortunate middle men in the taking of 39 lives. For most of them, this was not the first time they had smuggled people into the UK. It was the first time they were caught. Without their direct actions, the 39 would not have died. That's the way I see of apportioning the blame correctly. They didn't willingly agree to be killed. You're content portray them as collateral damage, not victims. You forget that it was you who first took the tread off topic when you said: "Even further up the list, people from Vietnam were attempting to smuggle themselves into the UK in the back of a truck a couple of years ago. It the UK made it easy to get visas, the ones intending to try illegal immigration would simply get a visa, fly here, then abscond." You cavalierly made light of it, crediting the state for not making it easier for those Vietnamese to arrive. Somehow I don't think it was at all that easy to slowly suffocate. But that's just me. Then you proceed with a litany of reasons that should serve to discourage others. Again, you go out of your way to make light of the incident, referring to "cute young lads" and the political correctness of it all. You fail to acknowledge the tragedy that befell them, opting instead to down play it. Go back and take a look at those 39 faces. Those were fellow human beings robbed of their lives at an early age. We are no better than any one of them. We are the fortunate who, by accident of birth of happenstance, were born into a country where we became better educated, acquired good-paying jobs and maybe some semblance of wealth. None of that gives us the right to look down on anyone of these young people who wish for the same things. These are the people who enter our countries--legally or otherwise--and harvest our produce, toil in our food processing factories and do physical labor our own citizens prefer not to. They deserve to be acknowledged for their contribution which is typically rewarded with low pay and few if any benefits.
    3 points
  4. Probably you meant it differently, but I read "knew precisely what they were doing" as "they knew it was illegal" (and I agree with this) plus "they knew how much risk was involved, including their possible death" (and that's the part I wouldn't agree, I rather think they thought that the maximum risk would be being caught and sent back and having a big pile of debt).
    2 points
  5. I don't believe this.
    2 points
  6. Few things are clear to me now at least for the case of phuket sandbox. If your visit is for 14 days or less, stay off this sandbox unless you are willing to gamble that your vacation might turn out to an expensive two week quarantine in hotel prison. If your trip is more than 14 days, but less than 1-2 month, go only if you are willing to lose 14 days of your trip in case similar thing above happened. For longer term traveller, its a better choice than the compulsory quarantine STV provides, so sandbox is a no brainer. As for me, i mightve to resign to the fact that 2021 might not be a travel to thailand year for me. The only way this could happen is if thailand somehow miraculously able to vaccinate enough of their citizens to bring the cases down significantly, enough for them to relax the sandbox restriction further. The whoe reason local in sandbox needs to be vaccinated is so that even if there is a positive cases, it wouldnt matter much since itll just be like a normal flu. Until this happen, i agree that sandbox will doom to fail.
    2 points
  7. did they imported covid with them or opposite, actually got infected while mingling with locals. It works both ways as always
    2 points
  8. My first week of teleworking all time I had no sex since Tuesday. If sex is what you are looking for, you can skip this post. I am feeling slightly batter at my airbnb. Part of my frustration is coming from a roomy loft with two balconies with plenty of natural light and open views, to this view: IMG_4571.MOV I contacted my Airbnb hostess to tell her that I had nothing against her, that she was probably an employee, but that I was going to complain to airbnb for misleading advertisement. I was convinced this was an apart hotel, not a living home, and nowhere in the ad would say so. I turned to be wrong. The unit belongs to a young couple who invested on it right before the pandemic broke in. That is what these are some unfinished details (like the lightening). Knowing that I was not dealing with a company radically changed my attitude. I am still unhappy because of the contrast, I am coming from a much better apartment in a much better location at a much lower price. However, I am trying to enjoy the good things. The shower and the bed are great, and although Monserrat excites me much less than Palermo, it is a historic area with many beautiful views and good eateries. I am very close to San Telmo, but I did not have time to go there yet. I am working up to local 5pm, and as it is almost winter here, sun is down at 6. Perhaps this weekend I will go over there. If the thrill of being in Palermo was feeling as exploring a new city, the thrill here comes from exploring an area I used to know very well, and see the changes. Palermo seems a flourishing area even amidst the pandemic, here is quite different. I cannot tell whether the decadence signs started before or after the pandemic, but they are evident. These streets should be busting with people walking and working. The picture was taken around 8:30 am, before I had to check in to work. In that short walk I also found this bar, and I love it, with a young Fidel Castro human size doll in the balcony: Just as people compares Recoleta and Palermo Chico to Paris, all this area is compared to different Spanish cities. Take a look as how a Starbucks looks like here: The whole area is a historic neighborhood, I am just two blocks away from the famous Plaza de Mayo where many national historic events took place, starting on 1810. During this week, the Plaza was occupied by protesters demanding the liberation of a political prisoner in a northwest state. I was never able to be there during day light to take pictures, I was waiting for today to do it, but they all left yesterday July 9th, which is Independence Day here. Echoing some of the comments made earlier in this thread, many of the people in my circle warned me about not going there. I ignored them. Last Thursday I walked alone in the middle of the protester, and I felt perfectly safe. Very humble, darker skinned people, but absolutely peaceful and friendly. They were camping, occupying the green areas of the public space, but allowing freely pedestrian circulation, and they were taking care of cleaning behind them. When yesterday I found out they were gone, the place looked spot clean as they'd had never been there. Yesterday night I had my first chance to take a long walk. It was at night, but I though you may enjoy a few night pictures of Buenos Aires, for a change. In this walk, the area's decadence was noticeable. After finding out that the protesters were gone from Plaza de Mayo, I walk up through Avenida de Mayo. This is the city are that everyone compares to Madrid. 20 years ago, when I left, most building had been restored and new night lights installed, a project funded by the Spanish Embassy. Las night, most stores were shut down and the buildings were dark. But now and then, you would see traces of the beauty hidden in the dark: Those buildings stand out only because they have their lighting up. They are surrounded for similar beauties that you can only appreciate during day light. This is the corner of Avenida de Mayo and Avenida 9 de Julio: El Hotel La Argentina, closed. The Avenida de Mayo starts in the homonym Plaza, where the Casa Rosada, the National Executive Branch headquarters is located. It Ends in the Plaza de los Dos Congresos and the Legislative Branch headquarters: Normally, the beautiful building is fully illuminated, this darkness is another sign of the crisis. All this area is where you can find most of the best traditional Spanish cooking eateries. Take a look at this jamón serrano sandwich that was my lunch yesterday (and my breakfast today): You can also find premium restaurants from other cuisines. I am not fond of fancy restaurants and prefer regular standard eateries. For those of you into expensive, one of the most reputed Peruvian restaurants of Buenos Aires is around my corner. So far I have been sharing standard regular prices. This place is considered very expensive by the locals: Today currency: U$S 1 = $AR 98.35 at official rate; 171.5 at Blue. I did not hook up after Jason because I am budgeting and Grindr was too distracting and time demanding, as I am not an easy online hookup. I may turn it up today again, but I will be busy with friends and tomorrow with family and Alan. I used it last Tuesday before making the decision to hire Jason, but no one seem a good prospect. That is another disadvantage of this place the number of GFS (Gays for Feet Squared) is way lower than Palermo. Meanwhile, last night I rolled the last hint with the weed I bought when I arrived. Do toy remember those two beautiful jars filled with flowers? Gone. One of the friends I am meeting today has a brother who is cultivating, so I will get a reinforcement for free.
    2 points
  9. My guess is an extension cords that either have multiple outlet and or usb ports.
    1 point
  10. To someone who weigh the risk vs benefit, sinovac definitely did very well in preventing death. Unless you have the luxury to choose vaccine type, which thailand dont have, sinovac is better than no vaccine. Indonesia also observe similar low rate of death amongst their health workers that were infected by covid, where 90% of them were vaccinated with sinovac. Yes, if the media only fixated on the death after fully vaccinated, itll in fact will make those that were on the fence about vaccine or sinovac to choose either wait for a different vaccine or worse, avoid getting vaccine at all, which is still weird to me since the fact is, covid death has been way higher multiple folds all over the world. What responsible reporting would look like is to compare the death rate amongst health workers before and after vaccines and see how vaccines help reduce the death rate. In the end, people will only see what they want to see. All the information are there, its up to the adult to decide for themselves. Some countries are making vaccine compulsory though.
    1 point
  11. A bit of a screamer: "The Public Health Ministry said on Sunday more than 600 medical workers who received two doses of China's Sinovac vaccine have been infected with Covid-19, as authorities weigh giving booster doses to raise immunity." Fortunately, this Bangkok Post story sobered up and added, "Of the 677,348 medical personnel who received two doses of Sinovac, 618 -- less than 1% -- became infected, ministry data from April 1 to July 10 showed. A nurse has died and another medical worker is in critical condition." To have 1 percent infected after vaccination isn't all that surprising, but the headline isn't going to help persuade those who are already vaccine-hesitant.
    1 point
  12. sydneyboy1

    Bangkok Gyms

    I have some fond memories of the steam room at Clark Hatch. Not the Babylon but could be fun.
    1 point
  13. I can't predict what the future will hold -- will the bars even return??? -- but buttholes there definitely were in the past, even the recent past. Many members on this board might remember the act where a usually-effeminate dancer would go prancing around the stage pulling a string out of her lower orifice. The string bore plastic flowers (fluorescent pink, as I remember) at quite close intervals, about 10 - 15 cm apart. Dancing or jerking to the beat of the music, she would weave her way between the gogo poles so that the string, eventually some 8 to 10 metres long, would stretch across the poles like some sort of Do-not-cross police cordon. I think it was the old Dreamboys on Soi Twilight that had this show quite regularly. i can't help a touch a nostalgia as I type this, even though it was no titillation for me when it was performed. Cringe might be a better description of my reaction. That having been said, I don't suppose, from your question, you were hoping to see a reprise of something like this, were you?
    1 point
  14. Or maybe share the pic of the hot brazillian escort you are trying to meet in rio here. Chances are some members might be able to vouch for him?
    1 point
  15. IMHO Odd yes. Smart yes. If he is concerned with this being real (as he should be), knowing it is legit is good. If you have been videoing with him, not much risk. If you have shared nothing with him, you may want to consider the ramifications if any for you. I recommend you share here with us first and we will tell you if you are 30 something in decent shape.
    1 point
  16. Sooooo, you were spying on me, eh . . . ? Were you spying on me the first time I ever went to Bangkok's Saranrom Park, where in those days there were dozens of boys, none asking for more than 500 baht for short time - and plenty of local short time rooms available? That was overwhelming too. That is another place I have not been in quite some time, but I have a feeling those days are also long gone.
    1 point
  17. My earlier post was less concerned with statistics than with examples of how something like a sandbox scheme frequently does not work. The clear example is Melbourne and other quarantine hotels in Australia. Melbourne was first with supposedly a fail safe system. It wasn't and the virus got back out to the general community. This was a result of guards working across various hotels rather than being restricted to one and mingling with quarantined travellers. Several state governments have acknowledged that airborne transmission may have been possible with the virus likely picked up in narrow hotel corridors. It is thought that one case occurred when two people in rooms across a corridor from each other opened their doors to collect their meals at the same time. Without masks, the virus could have been transmitted from one to another. Then there are the Taiwan cases which were brought into a country that had had no cases for around 255 days by pilots and airline staff. One had flown back from New York with a bad cough and not feeling 100% fit. He infected others in the flight crew. By this stage the Taiwan government hd made the sort of mistake we are more used to here in Thailand. Quarantine for pilots had been reduced from around 10 days to 5 and then 3. One pilot then skipped from the airport quarantine hotel so he could go out on the town with his girl friend. These pilots were from EVA airlines and ended up with massive fines and being fired. But still the lesson was not learned and a few weeks later China Airlines was grounded for two weeks after its staff also brought the virus in to the country. Now the Taiwanese are having to put up with restrictions they did not experience last year. Worse, they are having problems getting vaccines. I do not believe the sandbox will work for long even with tourists who have been vaccinated and passed a covid test poor to departure and on arrival. I hope I am wrong. Time will tell.
    1 point
  18. for those who successfully made it those criminals are God sent since they can't count on visa obtained legal way. Labels sometimes are not what they are meant to be.
    1 point
  19. I love the main character, so cute and weepy!
    1 point
  20. In 2008 or 2010, I cannot remember the exact year, I took a Grand Circle Travel Tour to Egypt for almost two weeks. Five days were spent traveling along the Nile on a river boat cruise/trip. Afterwards, we returned to Cairo, and while there, one day a group of us made our way to a special shopping area or medina. While there I ventured into a shop looking for a special good (...can't remember specifically now). A cute and young guy assisted me. I purchased what I wanted; he in turn gave me a nicely shaped greenish stone and stated that it was a gift to me. I didn't quite know what to make of this, for I was extremely horny and wanted to have some nice, fairly good sized Egyptian cock. Well, in my state of confusion as well as making certain that I caught the tour bus on time-- I did not try to analyze the situation with this guy although I was so ready and eager to suck and be fucked. Although this occurred a while ago-- the experience still resonates with me. Don't have plans to return to this country any time soon. Brasil and Argentina or perhaps Thailand beckon me in 2022/2023, as Covid has wrecked havoc on life worldwide.
    1 point
  21. like all bars closed. Last time I was there was during my last trip , 21 month ago. Nothing tragic as I took guy from there on night 5 or 6. As with every bar , tragic for one is gate of paradise for another. Depend of what one is looking for, no steak will be tasty for a vegetarian and every soya cutlet will be laughable for a carnivore.
    1 point
  22. evening mass in the Cathedral , just beside your hotel Mandarin Oriental?
    1 point
  23. You hit the nail ! Paltry sum in Western countries often goes very long way in may poor ones , slave wages here mushroom when crossing borders and deplorable living conditions are still often much better than ones at home. Authentic discussion from my then workplace about 30 years ago: one employee got lucky and won a little bit in lottery, our boss congratulating him mused casually that this is what he paid for suit for his son recent wedding. Employee answered " I'm more rich than you, I will built new barn for that when I get home" . World is very complex place
    1 point
  24. Turning victims into criminals is a classic and regrettable way of redirecting blame. It may assuage the conscience of those who wish to deflect attention from the fact that the act would not have been even possible without the direct overt acts of the true criminals who were found guilty in this matter. There are many ways to belittle and disparage those very same people we hope to meet in our travels. In other words they're good enough to satisfy our desires while were in country but perish the thought that we should permit them into our home nations. Employing double standards that meets our needs in one set of conditions but we find distasteful in others seems remarkably convenient. In this case, it precludes the possibility that young Thais may indeed have aspirations other than a career in the sex business.
    1 point
  25. See is it only me who thinks that of ALL the people we DO let into the UK - that bar boys and sex workers should be the ones we are actively ENCOURAGING to come stay only yearly visas ! There should be extra points given to them on their visa applications just as we do with brain surgeons and engineers and the like, with bar boys being classed as "essential workers" ( as they are for some of us at least ! :-)
    1 point
  26. I haven't been to any of the Bangkok go-go bars in years, but my understanding, based on what friends tell me, as long as they don't expect a police raid (they often get tipped off) and don't suspect any plain clothes police are in the audience, pretty much anything goes. It would be great if things eventually return to the way they were many years ago. Some of you who have been around long enough may remember the Utopia Guest House in Bangkok and the owner, John Goss. During my very first trip to Thailand I stayed at the Utopia and John personally took me around to show me the ropes and took me to a couple of the go-go bars. There is nothing like the first time. I can't remember the name of the bar, but I will never forget my first experience. There were at least 30 go-go boys and both on and off stage they were completely naked. And I mean completely. I was absolutely overwhelmed. I did not expect anything like that and had never seen anything like that. And in those days, the go-go bars had short time rooms. Do I need to tell you where I was every night while I was in Bangkok? Bring back the way it was in those days! Please!
    1 point
  27. reader

    Show us the money

    Good point. And it seems some in power never tire of "investigating" how Boss escaped the tentacles of the law than actually bringing him to justice. A few days ago yet another probe was announced to investigate mishandling of the case, something long ago established in earlier efforts, but nothing is said of capturing the outlaw. From Thaiger / BP Another new panel formed to investigate senior officers, prosecutors in “Boss” case A new panel has been created to investigate 15 senior police officers, investigators, and public prosecutors, accused of mishandling the hit-and-run case against Red Bull heir, Vorayuth “Boss” Yoovidh­ya. Among those being investigated are 2 police generals and 2 senior police officers. The Bangkok Post reports that all members of the National Anti-Corruption Commission will sit on the newly-created panel. Vorayuth is wanted for a 2012 hit-and-run case in which a Bangkok policeman lost his life. The Red Bull heir managed to evade justice and somehow fled the country. Due to the high-profile nature of the case, the 9 NACC members have been ordered to investigate the mishandling of the case themselves. Watcharapol Prasarnrajkit from the NACC has stressed the need for the investigation to be concluded promptly. The National Anti-Corruption Act stipulates that NACC investigations must be concluded within 2 years, although this can be extended to another year if more time is needed. There are now 2 panels investigating the handling of the case against Vorayuth. The first is a committee formed by the Public Prosecutor Commission, which has already implicated the former deputy attorney-general Nate Naksuk after he decided to drop the charges against the Red Bull heir, a decision that prompted national outrage. https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crime/another-new-panel-formed-to-investigate-senior-officers-prosecutors-in-boss-case
    1 point
  28. One thing I have learnt from the Brazilian saunas. It only takes one to make an evening!
    1 point
  29. vinapu

    In flagrante delicto

    in normal times yes but now? what bars and what customers other than few expats and locals ?
    1 point
  30. There's still Meio Mundo on Friday's if you like guy next door or guy that will kill you types.....
    1 point
  31. It's worth reminding readers that the 39 Vietnamese who were suffocated to death in the refrigerated lorry in 2019 were not smuggling themselves into England. They were smuggled in by others. All of those convicted of manslaughter or smuggling them into the UK were citizens of the UK, Ireland or Italy. These are the faces of those young people who suffered the agonizing death. R.I.P.
    0 points
  32. I'm sorry but here I have to disagree again. Who were the true criminals? The snakeheads in Vietnam, surely. Without them those poor young people who were murdered - for that is how I see their deaths - would still be in their Vietnamese villages. Those who were found guilty in the UK were merely the poor bastards at the end of a very long trail of criminals. I do not in the slightest defend their actions, but without the originating criminals in so many countries, the drivers of the lorries would not have human cargo to transport. That is not redirecting blame. It is merely apportioning it in the correct way.
    -1 points
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