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I think Prince is perfectly fine for the price and level of service and facilities they offer. It may cost more than some places, but the facilities are nicer than most (e.g., nicer than Arena). I assume no one goes there expecting a Wat Pho-trained masseur. Overall the guys are a certain type of good-looking guy, some are print-model gorgeous, not super-muscled (compared with Arena) and not particularly twinky. The comparison shop is VCK or to a lesser extent Prince's sister shop My Hero. VCK is actually more expensive and for Silom/Sathorn visitors obviously less convenient. Same as VCK - the guys may finish the experience a tad early and if there's time left on the clock and if you care you have tell them you don't want to stop. I wouldn't go there for a sports massage. It's just messy-carressy oil massage with a naked young man who looks like he could be in my special magazines (hehehe), followed by sex. I think the managers there will tell you who does what and I've never had a problem there. The stated minimum tip includes full service and I've never ever had anyone even hint at wanting more. One obvious point that's probably worth repeating is that most of the guys there are straight-top-only. When I go I tell the manager I want a gay bottom or gay does everything. This immediately narrows down the selection from about 40 to 4 guys. I've always been able to pick someone I like and the guys have all been skilled and DTF. I cannot make any comments on the performance of the other guys. And as has been said before, the actual sex part is intimate and personal so my experience will not be the same as anyone else. [I have no doubt that the straight guys are fine masseurs and fun in bed, I just have a formula for success that works for me and my preferences so I usually stick with that on auto-pilot. And I like to support the fellow gays. Obviously the sheer numbers show that the straight-top-only guys are great for business with lots and lots and lots of happy repeat customers.] Maybe there are some places in Brazil, I don't know, but I'm not aware of other places in the world where you can find 30-40 guys such handsome guys (60+ busy season) to have no complications foreplay (massage) and sex with, all for let's say around $US 100 (at current exchange rates).

I am also following SWOP, right now they are in an effort to reach out to male prostitutes or former prostitutes, but they do not seem to have a place for clients like me. I like them. Part of the problem with activism for decriminalization is visibility. Let's not forget that the coming our movement was probably;y what made the biggest difference in the fight for gay rights. When people saw how many we are, and how far away from their stereotyped we often are, they started to change their preconceptions. As long as clients continue to hide, the fight for sex workers right will continue in their exclusive hands. My long term plan is coming out as a John once I am retired from my teaching career. Have you ever thought of running for a local office, @stevenkesslar? California and Palm Springs look like friendly spots for a candidate focused on a sex positive agenda and sex work decriminalization. I am very ignorant of American history, but I do not think someone has ever ran before under such a platform. It would be an interesting experiment that could give us the chance to make our argument louder and stronger.

If I were down and out, I would want Steven Kesslar's support. We are all human and capable of making misguided decisions at certain points in our lives. Much like Hooboy's review site, I enjoyed Rentboy when it first hit the scene. The coding and user interface were not perfect, but at the time, the site was better than anything else. Then Rentboy decided to upgrade. The business became about maximizing profit to the detriment of the user experience. The new coding was a disaster. Ads were everywhere, and the user experience sucked. With 30 pages of guys, I could never seem to get past page 10 without the software shutting down and revealing its bugs. I remember asking myself, "Where are the profit dollars going?" Up someone's nose? Into someone's ass? They certainly weren't being spent on making the user experience the best it could be. Then, as a favor to an escort, I read Rentboy's TOS for escorts, every word, and I was appalled. There's only one word to sum it all up: GREED. I started to wonder if Hurant actually had contempt for escorts. I advised my escort friend to create his own website and build a reputation by word of mouth.

I would say for safety and perhaps non-fluency in Spanish, hotel option best, since there are several accessible and ID deposit is required. Private dwelling likely better for expanding selection of guys who are self-conscious about the commercial sex work label.

Ha! I have a substantive comment on what you said. But first let me take the vanity lap regarding your kind comment about running for office. Because it actually does tangent on the issue of decriminalization. In my 30's when I was very involved in state and local politics (as a community organizer of organizing director of non-profits, not as a government employee) the question I got asked all the time is, "When are you going to run for office?" The answer was always, "Never". So when I switched to being an escort it took a year or two to get used to the internal emotional reaction. I would not call it shame, but it was in that ballpark. First, there was the worry about getting caught. But beyond that I knew and worked with a ton of elected politicians in the city and state. So I kept waiting for the "one step removed" to play out and at some point I figured some client would out me and everybody who knew me would find out what I was up to now. I've spoken with many escorts who of course have different versions of the same concern. Fortunately, that never happened. Early in my SF days I went out on a date with a guy I met online who was this gorgeous bodybuilder. We hit it off, and he claimed I was exactly his type. But he worked in the Mayor's Office in City Hall. And I just thought this was a little too close for comfort. As in I didn't want to really tell him about my day job. So we had one date, and then I just came up with some excuse to drop it. Then maybe a year or so later I found out by coincidence, from a few escort buddies, that the bodybuilder I'd gone out on a date with was .......... wait for it ...............an escort. That was educational to me. I'm like, wait! You can work in CITY HALL and do this? WTF? Of course, it's San Francisco. Don't try that in Alabama. You are absolutely correct. One of my friends who is one of the best organizers in the country on LGBTQ issues was quoted in an article called "Hearts Not Heads" in The Economist in which she made the point that our success on same sex marriage ultimately rested on an emotional argument: we let people get to know who we are, and where are hearts are at. As opposed to an intellectual appeal to fairness or equality of other "principles". That said, I don't think the same would be necessary if we are talking about decriminalization. I don't think "coming out" to everyone is a necessary or even a good strategy. Unlike same sex marriage, I don't know that we ever can, or have to, win broad public support. If a serious effort were mounted, I think the key thing would be behind the scenes lobbying with elected officials and their staffs. And part of what would be interesting about THAT is you could, in theory, have many "respected" members of society like doctors and lawyers and even politicians and judges "coming out" behind closed doors, to elected officials or their staff. I think that would be highly effective. And it does not involve marching in a parade, being quoted in a newspaper, etc. That said, I'm still pretty sure the idea would scare the shit out of most people. But I don't think it needs to be an "I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it" strategy. Here's a cautionary tale. At one point around the time I was very involved in volunteer same sex marriage organizing I came out as an escort to the friend I mentioned above. While she is high up in the LGBTQ organizing mafia, she is personally Straight. As it turns out, she was also one of the first people I came out to as a Gay man a few decades ago. So I could do a compare and contrast. When I came out as Gay she was all pride and joy. When I came out as an escort I could tell it really confused her, and she never really seemed to feel comfortable with that. As I said in my first post, I think a lot of professional women see escorting as something in the ballpark of a form of slavery. So that was also educational. She's a poster child when it comes to tolerance on anything liberal and LGBTQ. So if she had a hard time with this issue, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would. Which is why I think if there ever is a serious effort is should be based less on public visibility or media or persuading the public, and more on having teams of people who are escorts of those who hire them go talk to politicians and their staff in private. There's a whole bunch of great arguments that could be made. But the best one is that we waste a tremendous amount of time and money playing "whack a mole", and those resources could be far better spent on many other pressing needs.

I love it! Honesty in government! It's, actually, what I have told all my friends for years in every bar, in every country on the planet. Enjoy yourself, but that 22 year old, swimmers build hunk is NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU! Remember that and all well be well my friends .

Hi, actually, my locker- theft experience is not so unusual when you factor in that I have been visiting Brazil for sixteen years many times each year. This equates to more than 100 visits to the country. I cannot recall how many visits I have had to the saunas. To have only two thefts from my sauna locker in that much exposure is really quite remarkable.

I have been fortunate. I have never had a problem in either of the saunas I visited while in Rio. The locker areas are generally quite active with people either coming or going, so I would think it would be difficult to pull off a theft. I typically return to my locker after an "engagment" to obtain the funds to pay for the encouner and my impression was that many follow that same routine. I would expect management to take an interest when a theft from a locker is reported to them ... so that they can make certain that it did not happen again. My guess is that most people would inform the management if money were removed from their wallet when they expect to pay for their visit from those funds. I think it is unusual to leave enough to pay for that evening and not take all the funds. I would worry more about the loss of my billfold (credit cards) than my cell phone while out of the country. I typically pay my bill with a credit card ... the boys in cash. My cell phone can be permanently locked as soon as I make it to an internet connection. I do have the advantage of not buying new cell phones yearly ... so my phone is older and not worth much on the open market. I am most sorry to hear of mvan1's experience.

My own favorite was when I had a boy at my house and it was raining rather heavily when it was time for him to leave. I told him he should stay until the rain ends. He said, "No problem raining. I have condom." Of course, he was trying to convey he has a raincoat.

The Michelin of Massage...thanks DivineMadman

Perhaps his experiences of sacrifice putting himself thru school and go-funding his whorehouse helped pave the way for the current generation of working ativos.

you were but if boy was good , money were still well spent , treat is as involuntary tip increase.

My recent experience with Prince is high-price and poor service. This was not always so but it was on my last two visits.

My question put another way will it be a seamless transition?

My boyfriend: lizard have no boom translated to resort has no broom

On the topic of short time rooms in Pattaya, not long ago I offed a lad from Dream Boys and needed a short time room. He took me to one just a minutes walk away. I wanted a/c and hot water in shower. The little hotel asked me for 500b., which seemed excessive. There was no a/c and no hot water. A week later, the same boy wanted to be offed again and told me the short time room was 300b. now. obviously, I was conned out of 200b. the first time.

That should work for me...thought I read in your review that he was a bit distant and mechanical about it...will give him a shout as time gets closer

The layout of this bar which started as 360 degree boybar, was really bad. Anyone should have been able to see this obvious fact.... It is almost entertaining to now see that also the latest formation of this bar, a lady gogo bar called Romantic agogo, has closed after a few weeks. And some chinese is now advertizing and trying in every Pattaya group on Facebook to find someone who wants to take over the contract and pay 350 000 baht for the privilege....

So where did you decide to go and how was the trip?

I did it last year. There is a shop in the main soi of Jomtien complex, but halfway you have to go up the stairs. And then you see it.

"authoritarian" YES. Someone who understands.

It’s probably worth viewing this through a wider lens—the political one. The nation is still experiencing the upheaval of much contested elections and it will be a while before things settle. Individuals, parties and private interests are vying for power and influence. This is nothing new in the history of Thailand, whether the change in government resulted from a coup or elections. If you go back about 16 years, under the Thaksin regime, police staged a very well publicized raid on Babylon sauna. The media was there in force and if I recall correctly the justification was that the premises didn’t have a license to operate as a hotel. But it occurred in the larger context of a “social order” campaign. It came as a surprise to many because the owner was a quite wealthy and influential individual. Popular gay venues have always been popular locations when a point is to be made because few will rise to their defense. It’s perhaps worth noting that the raid on Prince was publicized only in the Thai media. No English language site has reported on it to the best of my knowledge. Similar social movements emerge periodically but particularly when a regime desires to make a point that lends legitimacy to its rule. These events can be popular among certain segments of the population while alienating others. But they all have one thing in common: things tend to regress to the norm in time-honored Thai fashion. Thailand—like many nations—is experiencing its own surge of nationalism. And that nationalism challenges the ASEAN ties built up over time. If history is any predictor, the needle will slowly fluctuate back to the norm, driven by economic and social factors, and of course, politics of the day. It’s probably wise not to make too much or too little of day-to-day events in trying to discern the long-term direction of a government. Successful prior governments have proven adept at maneuvering through political minefields to keep the economy on track and the masses mollified. Until, of course, they don’t.

Steven, A very well worded post and I liked your bottom line. I am glad that you and others stood up for Jeffrey and Rentboy. I don't know the full result of all of this but glad that he had people sticking with him. There was a great group in NYC years ago that was active in the legalization of prostitution. I do forget the name but I attended a few meetings back then. It is hard to get people really involved in this issue which is very prevalent in our society. Owning an agency years ago, I know so many guys that became Lawyers, teachers, accountants, doctors, etc. because the money they made from escorting allowed them to make a path available that was not available to them before.

I strongly agree with your perspective on this, Oz. That said, I ain't holding my breath. I'll wait until someone like Warren or Harris actually gets elected. Then we'll see. Ironically, Trump is the last POTUS in the world who would act on this. If it were only up to him, he might favor decriminalization. I think we all know he certainly has a good reason to do so. But this would likely not go down well among his base. Except, of course, the portion that like to hang out in bathroom stalls. The controversy over what happened to Jeffrey and Rentboy has already been referred to on this thread, so I won't revisit it other than to say this. I was one of the leaders of the effort to raise money for Jeffrey's defense. I think it's objective to say it never really got off the ground. In part because it was surprising how much push back there was even among people who pretty much used Rentboy every day. When FOSTA/SESTA passed I sounded out people I've known for a very long time - either escorts or people who hired them - about their interest or willingness to organize and meet with members of Congress or staff locally to discuss the issue. Of course, by that time (the bill passed almost unanimously) it was too late. Regardless, and not surprisingly, there was not much interest. I followed the online postings of groups that did get involved in lobbying - SWOP (Sex Workers Organizing Project) up in Seattle had some really good online reports of what was happening on the inside. The tone of their posting was that legislators and staff really are willing to listen. I was a lobbyist in DC for six years and that flies with my experience. The simple mathematical fact is that in every Congressional district in the US, there are far more escorts (or whatever other name you want to use) and especially far more people who hire them than there are law enforcement officers or Moral Mary crusaders. So whatever public opinion says, as an organizing proposition there is every reason to think that all over the country "we" could be meeting with Senators and MOC's and our voices would be heard. Perhaps that in itself is one explanation for Warren and Harris shifting on this issue. They certainly appear to be open to talking about it. Gay men also add a whole different aspect to a discussion. It is easy to portray women escorts as helpless victims. I've read hundreds of reports and studies on this issue and younger professional women journalists in particular seem to view decriminalization as sort of like slavery. It adds a whole different spin when you get male escorts talking about how they use this as a transition job to earn a law degree, or even become a cop. Bottom line: I would not dismiss the ability to change hearts and minds on this, like we did on same sex marriage and other LGBTQ-related issues. We should keep an open mind and watch, I think.

Now the original thread has moved to the Timeless section I do not seem to be able to add another comment. Hopefully someone more tech savvy than me can connect this to the original thread. While I do not think there is any way to guarantee a good experience, there are a few things that can be done to improve the chances of one, many of which are expanding on the points listed by DivineMadman. The description below indicates something fairly obvious. A majority of the factors determining whether or not we have a good experience are up to us, not up to the guy. Unless we recognize this, criticizing the guys is pointless and cheap. The success of the evening depends on two phases. (i) Selecting the guy in the club. (ii) The relationship established with the guy after selecting him. I have structured a lot of deals in my time. When they go bad it is almost never about aspects of the technical structuring. Bad deals usually reflect poor understanding of the human element. This goes quadruple for an interpersonal transaction like an off. Yes you are paying, but this does not make you god, dictator, puppet master or even desirable for the duration. The payment only gets the guy into the bedroom. How well he does what you would like him to do depends on how you treat him and how you make him feel. This is not finance. This is recognition, esteem and a human connection. (A) In the Club Selecting a guy in the club is the more ‘technical’ part of the evening. More information is better than less information, so I enlist the help of the mamasans. I have a much higher success rate when I use the mamasans for information than when I wing it. Their input helps to narrow the field to guys who are most likely to be compatible. I addition to checking which guys are gay and who does what, I also ask who has already had an off that evening as while the guys have the energy of youth they are not supermen. In terms of the guy’s behavior on stage, on a scale of no-eye-contact-immersed-in-cell-phone to wagging-erect-dick-in-face, I have had the best connection with guys who make eye contact and smile but who are not overt about it. They are watching you, so when you look at them and make eye contact they smile back, but they are not blatantly trying to get your attention. Maybe they are a bit shy or they are simply not extraverts. I find this a better indicator of real interest than a guy who too-actively markets himself. I agree with Paborn that the price of a drink to get to know a guy better is money well spent. Facetime with a guy gives you a lot of clues as to how compatible you might be. More so if you are not drunk. If my mission for the evening is to off a guy I do not drink alcohol, or drink very little, until I have chosen a guy. A major life lesson has been that alcohol impairs judgement. My only bad experiences picking up guys generally, not just Thailand, have been when I had a few too many drinks in me. (B) After Leaving the Club Now you have chosen a guy and sealed a deal, it is totally up to you how things work out. You now have to get the guy into a zone in which he is happy to be with you. This is personal chemistry not money. At its most basic this is showing an interest in him, showing him respect, consideration and making him comfortable. Ask him if he is hungry and, if he is, offer to buy him something. I make it clear I am not hungry, this is for him. Then he is likely to pick some street food he likes and he is comfortable. If I suggest I am also hungry a guy is likely to think we have to go somewhere I like, which may not be so much to his taste. This is about helping him to be comfortable, not feeding me. Find something to admire in his street outfit and complement him. Back in the hotel ask him if he would like a drink. Be the first to suggest a shower. Thai guys are into clean. Have a spare tooth brush for him to use and suggest it is ok if he wants to experiment with any of your products. Take his lead on whether or not he wants to shower together. Some guys, particularly bottoms, may want privacy to prep themselves. The infallible indicator of a successful evening to come is if the guy returns from the bathroom erect. In bed spend time on foreplay and check again what he does and does not do. If he is comfortable with you his repertoire may have expanded since the club. You get the picture. Your experience is really “up to you”.

yes, we all know it, it is by our very own, esteemed member @DivineMadman But never hurts to re-post the link for anyone who may have missed previous postings