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OK, first I'll admit my attempt to get an idea across with what passes in my world for 'humor' fell flat and second I'll apologize for offending Paragon. My mistake was thinking that a cartoon could get across a message that others have tried to impart more directly. I'm probably making a second mistake by trying to say it directly myself, but here goes: Lurkers probably have a hundred different reasons for being lurkers. They may be shy. They may think they have little to add. They may think their posts will be ridiculed. They may think they're light years ahead of any of the discussions that occur here. And/or, they may have spilled something sticky on their keyboard. Who knows why folks lurk and don't post? I sure don't. The only lurking experience I have is my own, having to do with a fear that I had nothing to add to a community that seemed to be getting along just fine without me. I don't recall what moved me from being a years-long lurker to a poster, but something did and I was glad. For quite a long while. But I also recall a poster on the other site who screwed up his courage to post about a physical condition that made him feel insecure around escorts and others, and he was skewered for his efforts. Cruelly. This gave me much needed empathy for lurkers, and a great deal of respect for their right to choose when and how to make themselves known. If they ever do. Like Lucky/Paragon, I'd welcome lurkers feeling free to post on their own terms and would try to give them any support they need in their initial efforts. But, if they're not ready, it just doesn't make sense to me that shining a light on them would make them any readier. It wouldn't have worked on me, that's for sure. It would only have driven me further underground and made it less likely that I ever would have posted. In my opinion, it's counterproductive to focus more attention on someone who's made it clear s/he's comfortable with less attention. I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. But, like clockwork, there comes a post that shines a beam on lurkers and, as far as I know, it's never been effective and it usually ends up with somebody getting their nose out of joint. I'll go another step. If there are lurkers out there who feel like stopping by to read something I've posted, I'm honored. If it somehow encourages them to jump in, so much the better. But if they feel happier sitting quietly in the Orchestra seats and waiting for me to take the inevitable pratfall, that's fine too. They don't owe me a thing, unless it's to make sure they're using only ripe tomatoes. As far as telling other posters what they should be posting, I can't say it any better than AdamSmith has. Lead by example. Most of us know when our posts or threads fall flat and it's a buzzkill to have somebody regularly swooping down from the pulpit to tell us we should be doing better. In one of the Board's perennial poop threads, I made a single post - one, that is - and I don't think it was even on-topic, but that didn't slow down a series of excoriations that I, among others, was making the place unfit for any potential new posters to join in. Well, how would anybody presume to know what would attract a lurker to join in? And, if somebody does know what would attract lurkers, why in the world isn't he posting it? Isn't that a more direct way to tackle the problem? And if the excoriator doesn't know what will bring in the customers, then why badger other posters? Particularly when it's likely to turn current posters into the very lurkers that are allegedly the problem. It just doesn't make any sense. Not to me anyway. If somebody has some particular topic they'd like me to conjure up a post on they can let me know what it is and how long they'd like it to be and I'll quote them a price. Cash up front. However, as long as I'm posting for free, it'll be what I like. Within, of course, the TOS and hopefully within the spirit of the thread. Is there anything unclear or unfair about that? (OK, this direct stuff stuff is starting to tucker me out, but here's one more on the subject of thin skin.) I do not pretend to have thick skin and, if my dermatologist offered to install it for me in a single painless office visit, I wouldn't take him up on it. I've been sensitive to the mood and tone of other folks since I was in the cradle. That sensitivity has served me well over the years, and I wouldn't give it up even for a weekend with Ralph Woods. Especially for a weekend with Ralph Woods. Naturally, there have been times when I've had to armor up and take a few hits from aggressive strangers or sociopathic coworkers, but never by choice and usually only when I'm getting paid good money to put up with it. I do not intend to spend my free hours on a message board pretending to enjoy somebody asking me who the fuck I think I am. I'm not masochistic and it would be crazy to spend my spare time acting like I am for the 'pleasure' of some stranger who gets a kick out of being belligerent. Again, I don't see what's so hard to understand about that concept. Perhaps it's the illogic of some of this behavior that leads me to believe that the folks who engage in it know full well what they're doing and I can either be irritated by it or I can laugh at it. This post is one of the few times when I'm going to do neither and assume the person who's aggravating me really has no idea that he's doing it, and I'm going to try this once to explain it in plain English and as directly and humorlessly as I know how. I hope it works because Lucky/Paragon is a person who has meant something to me individually and to this Board in general. I hope the message gets through clearly and makes some sense as, hopefully, it's the last time I'll ever need to. And, of course, apologies for interrupting the feasts of reason and flows of soul among the esteemed denizens of this thread. I know that AdamSmith, MsGuy, RA1, and other worthies will have us back on (or off) course in a trice. A trice-and-a-half at the outside.

Everyone on this thread needs a good, long sexual encounter (including me)(especially including me). Best regards, RA!

Here the various maiden aunts are discussing how to rear children when they have never had any of their own. Best regards, RA1

In preparation for what? It makes a difference, Pasadena.

We all wear many different hats. Best regards, RA1

(Just for AS & Hito. )

I am glad lookin is here. He is one of the few posters I have to read their post more than once to get the underlying subtle zaniness. My psychiatrist told me that this helps with brain something or the other developing and expanding. I was hoping after reading more from him that I would be able to go from my 140IQ to the next level of artificial intelligence.

Thanks ever so for the kind words! Turns out I've been just as fine as frog fur. Easter weekend, I got a nasty PM from a poster who took exception to my penultimate post and thought I was mocking him. It began with an inquiry as to . . . just who the fuck do you think you are? and it went downhill from there. It was all the encouragement I needed to turn my attention away from the Boards for a spell and towards my own back yard, where I discovered that some very invasive ivy was threatening to overwhelm the last of a native species that I've always liked a lot. I've since been using the freed up time to tackle the interloper, one green can at a time, and am happy to report that the natives are beginning to return in full force, in spite of a doozy of a drought. Every time I sink down on my hands and knees to deal with an encroaching root system, I think of you fine folks and hope all is oojah cum spiff. Glad to see so many of my favorite posters delivering some new favorite posts. Again, thanks for the shout out, and I look forward to returning just as soon as I've figured out how to become a bit less offensive. Perhaps I could hustle me up a good PR firm.

I think Hoke Colburn will likely be your driver. Best regards, RA1

Why was your grandmother not married at age 14 or 15? That was a common way to get away from "family" obligations and out on your own, sort of. My grandmother married at age 14 which made her first born more little a younger sister rather than child, especially as other children came along. I think an English biscuit is more like what we call crackers. How about a scone, 14 or fewer? Best regards, RA1

I think for the first time ever, you are living down on the first derivative. I have a deep investment in this community, way beyond bull baiting. I said so above, sincerely. Lookin's deeply felt post I presume to say comes from some similar place. The community here, even with its anonymities, and its spats etc., is not a joke, to many of us.

This is just another example of how many of today's youth view LGBT! When Lance Black won his Oscar for having written 'MILK'-- he returned to the high school from which he was graduated. In fact, it was at the school where I taught for some 34 years prior to my retirement some twelve years ago! My good friend and colleague had Lance speak to the students in her AP English classes; she also participated in the program which was held inside of the large gym in recognition of Lance's achievements. But to "cut to the chase," she relayed to me that Lance was highly received and acknowledged by the students; there were no homophobic displays, and this alum was treated with honor and respect by all of these youngsters. I was elated to hear what she, my friend, shared with me. While at the school, I never "came out" directly to the students, but I did, indirectly especially when I taught seniors. One year I showed about five gay-related [appropriate] films and had the students to write and discuss in reference to the established theme of Senior English. I only had one student who walked out of one of the showing: she was Mormon or a Jehovah Witness or Penecostal. When she returned I gave her an alternative assignment without any malice on my part! Yes, today's students [for the most part] are the type of young folk that all of us can applaud!

Bit redundant...

Similarly, the way to prevent aircraft injuries and deaths is to ground all aircraft. No flying, no problems. Except no commerce or fun ensues. The aircraft industry (general aviation) limited their liability by excluding products produced many years ago. Prohibiting ambulance chasers would be a big help. In other words, having driverless cars perform for an extended period of time successfully would go a long way towards limiting liability and legislation for same could not hurt. I do not think that having occupants ready and willing to take command of a driverless car would be a long term or satisfactory solution. With cruise control, automatic braking and other tech features of modern cars, is that not approximately what we have now? Best regards, RA1

Au contraire! I would feel honored.

Isn't a group grope what we do most every day, as you suggest? Yes, a family has differences of opinion and other problems but they are a family regardless. Onward and upward or words to that effect. Best regards. RA1

The Google car is a weird exception and more of a golf cart, but the general idea is that it is your responsibility to supervise the car and be prepared to take over if necessary. Wired just had a great article about how the car could tell you when it was uncertain about something, maybe an odd shadow or bump that could be a pet or something... The simple fact is there will be almost no collisions (front end anyway, the cars will still get hit...) and what there are will be people who took over or were self-driving and then tried to blame the automation. But (for liability reasons for the manufacturers) everything will have been recorded in detail. But the fact that within the next couple years automation will clearly be better (from a safety and efficiency standpoint) will be ignored by many and the clothes rending panic at every incident involving any car with any automation will grow to a roar despite the numbers of actual incidents and severity of injury being *far* in favor of the automation. "Tesla Fires" X10. Because people fear change and existing businesses exploit that.

As someone who has benefited from your kindness and your wisdom TomCal I am devastated by this news. As a friend of 20 years I hope I can be of assistance to you if you need. You have my phone number-just call if you need anything. Your positive energy as well as your stamina gives me hope that this illness is not going to have an easy time getting the better of you. Thank you.

I don't know what to say other than I am sorry this happened to you. I can't imagine this and it saddens me to know that someone would PM such a message.

First I'm Alice Roosevelt and now I'm Miss Daisy? This just ain't my day.

BOOM !!! And there we go!

Somehow I have not the slightest doubt that the first time I take a ride in a driverless car, it will introduce itself with: "HI, I'm Hal9000 and I'll be your drive today. What is your destination?"

And we haven't seen josephga for some time either.

RE: The autopilot comparison. One night a friend of mine who is now a retired FEDEX DC-10 captain, was flying a coupled autoland approach. This involves 3 certified autopilots + special monitoring by the crew. The FO looks for the runway and the captain watches the AP and the FO. My friend reported to me the next day that one by one the autopilots dropped off line. The aircraft landed itself and used autobrakes to slow. It was only when the captain disengaged the autobrakes and started his taxi that anyone realized all autopilots had failed. Eventually, driverless cars likely will be safer than one driven by human drivers but not because driverless cars are so good but because human drivers are so bad. Best regards, RA1

One more point: all the key people in the driverless-car development initiatives, at Google and Volvo and some others (I happen, ahem, to know just about all of them from one line of the consulting I do for work, or what passes for work ) make the point that once the sensors and even more the algorithms are sufficiently developed and matured, autonomous vehicles will be on average vastly safer than human drivers. They all rhapsodize, quite rightly I think, about this technology slashing the appalling rate of traffic fatalities and injuries today. We can of course make endless cracks about how if Microsoft can't even get laptops to operate right, etc. But the better comparison is possibly aircraft autopilot software, or the stability and braking control and all-wheel-drive software in cars which, one or two unintended-acceleration episodes excepted , works extremely reliably. Today's luxury car has like 10 million lines of code in it, almost 10 times the amount of software in a modern commercial aircraft. So in sum, I trust the autonomous-vehicle guys to get it right. And to make sound judgments about when they have in fact done so.