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You still not got? I'm just playing and teasing. Here isn't right place to discuss real politic: nobody here has own source of information - everyone (almost, I know only Vinapu can read Russian and that means he maybe also may read Ukrainian) here takes the same information from filtered Western sources. What to discuss? Almost everyone here is believer into Western medias, templates and holy democracy. I can read information from all sides of conflict, compare and make own conclusions. And many things what you takes as a truth are just Western urban legends, implemented by Western propaganda. "Oceania has never been at war with Ostasia" - you know what I mean.

Freshboys is packed with customers most nights. Business is good for bar although the guys don't get as many offs as they would like to. This is because most customers go to Freshboys to watch the show. And #31 is one of the stars of the show! He's a friendly guy and a brilliant pool player. I took him out to play pool with my regular guy once.

You can't argue with a fanatic. Logic just doesn't work! PeterRS tried!

I know, but I never refrigerate them, and they last for months.

Indeed, which won't be an added attraction.

The same thing happened to me. I think he's the owner. He's not the youngest anymore, but it was still great and there was no extra charge... simply because it's fun 🙂

In effect that will be an additional operating cost for bar staff which must be borne by someone down the line…

I think they 'merged' with nature boy, but I could be wrong. If I remember well, there was a sign that said 'golden cock - nature boy'. In that same street, I almost followed a couple cute boys into an establishment called 'simply'. Luckily I noticed that it's a tomboy bar before I got in. There is another bar there called 'h.i.m.', not sure what their audience is, since I didn't enter after almost getting involved with tomboys.

Believe what you will, but if it was a simple "compliance issue" Grindr would have resolved it years ago to access the market in China. I agree - will spend my vacation money where I and my friends are welcome.

I walked by today and here’s a quick update. They were working on the bar with the question mark and I saw the owner of M-Bar there so it looks like he could be adding it to his existing portfolio on M-Bar and Sunee Bar. I should have taken a photo when I went by the first time and the door was open. The Dragon Music Lounge will be reopening soon under new ownership. A guy at Sunbar told me it’s going to be called PP Bar. Fun Bar is undergoing major renovations. I’m not sure if the name will change.

I get your point, Keith. For me it’s not really about getting annoyed. I’m trying to understand what drives Moses and why he argues the way he does. I’ve been reading a lot of stoic philosophy lately, so I’m more interested in observing the pattern than fighting it. It’s actually quite fascinating to watch how certain discussions unfold and how people react when the topic becomes sensitive. But I agree that there’s no real point in pushing the debate further. Anyone reading the thread can draw their own conclusions. I’m fine leaving it here.

There is no point in continuing these discussions, im afraid, one just gets more annoyed!

Moses, this isn’t about one detail or one case. It’s about the pattern that appears every time you debate these topics. You often skip the main point and go straight to a tiny side detail, as if addressing that one fragment somehow cancels the rest. When someone gives several examples, you leave most of them untouched and shift the focus to something safer or unrelated. The core issue then disappears, and the discussion goes in circles. When the conversation becomes uncomfortable, you often deflect to things like McCarthyism or “this has always existed in human history”, which avoids the actual point being discussed. At the same time, you accuse others of lying or acting in bad faith instead of addressing their argument directly. You also tend to give half a fact without the broader context, so something technically true ends up being misleading. And you position yourself as the reasonable person who is being misunderstood, while not really engaging all the points people bring to you. This isn’t about politics. It’s about the method. It makes a normal, good-faith conversation very difficult, because the focus constantly moves away from the main argument. I am always willing to admit when someone makes a valid point. That’s how honest discussion works. I also understand that this kind of openness might not be an option for you, depending on your personal situation. But if we want productive conversation here, we need to address the whole argument, not just the smallest part of it.

I agree. I take advantage of these offers. If the goods contain vinegar, ketchup, etc they keep for many months, outside the fridge, even if opened. My Usual fault is that most plastic bottles of sauce, etc, are now designed to stand on their cap, so to speak, and be stored upside down. I find it more difficult to empty these completely, so sometimes wait till I have two, and empty them together!

Lets hope some sort of work-around emerges given the large percentage of boys from Cambodia and Laos that populate the bars, particularly in Jomtien Complex for example. Many of my favourite boys could be effected and my boyfriend (Laos) is very concerned as he currently does regular bi-monthly visa runs. On the face of it (and until further practical details emerge), it would seem to me that they can either become seasonal visitors, or attempt to hide in plain sight and hope they don't get picked up? The cynic in me thinks that the police could do rather well out of this?

Looks like this is going to be a good report. Love a trip report with a few pictures!

You again lie? Please quote me where I'm "falsely implying Ukraine". Whole "false implication" was in your mind. I wrote here only fact "2 citizens of Ukraine". Do you want to oppose that fact?

I did say "when the antismoking ban was first introduced" and that was around ten or more years ago. Those were the days when I used to visit bars regularly. Solid Bar, for example, had three such large signs yet the owner and almost all the boys smoked.

FIrst I agree wholeheartedly about the King of College operating model in Tokyo, although like @macaroni21 the timing is too late for me now. And getting back to one's hotel afterwards unless it is within walking distance of Shinjuku ni-chome means a very expensive taxi. Second, I can recall only too well @macaroni21's bar model first introduced in these forums many years ago under his earlier nick. The dividing up of a bar into several sections semed such an ideal development and I am sure it would have taken off with the older westerner crowd of those days. @Keithambrose doubts if brown envelopes would be sufficient to cover a naked section nowadays. He may well be right but I'm not so sure. As long as there is no actual sexual activity underway, I suspect it could be worth trying. The entrance fee to that part of the bar could be increased a little more to cover a larger brown envelope. There is always an assumption - one I have also put forward years ago - that by concentrating on the older westerner market, Thai bar owners have shot themselves in the foot by failing to attract through advertising or other means the newer younger Asian market. Yet going back to King of College and the basic Japanese system in what is a plethora of host bars all over that country, I have occasionally wondered if I and others are in fact correct: is the Asian market really going to be attracted by Thai bars where the primary purpose is to off guys for sex? Some certainly. I see South East Asians as a very obvious market. Apart from the fact that they are all close by, most have no issue with enjoying sex with the Thais, Cambodians, Lao, Vietnamese and Myanmar boys who people most of Bangkok's bars. With the larger markets of Japanese and South Koreans, I am not quite so sure. Generally speaking, I think the cultures of those countries make it more difficult for gay men openly to accept sex with, say, South East Asian guys. This is not a racist issue so much as a cultural one. Of course it is not a universal fact, but I think as a generality it is true. It's why Japanese gay friends who visit Bangkok will happily visit a sauna, go to a massage spa, see a show in a bar and then disappear off to a disco. For many, offing is not really their thing. A section of bars where the boys are naked could, in my view, be extremely attractve to them. I am certain at the very least it would encourage them to drink more(!)

FIRST NIGHT IN BANGKOK I started the evening with a stroll. Through the various streets lined with boy bars and massage shops... What struck me was how quiet the streets were. Few people were walking around or entering the bars. I was therefore afraid I'd be the only customer if I went in. But when I entered Freshboys just after 10:30, it was surprisingly packed. The show wasn't anything new. It was mostly the same. During the big cock parade, number 31 caught my eye. Gorgeous body, six-pack, nice tattoos (not too many, but distinct. Chinese theme). When the boys went into the audience for tips, I naturally handed number 31 a bill. After I'd thoroughly felt up his body and given him some compliments, of course. Mamasan told me the guy was "top only." Unfortunately, he didn't match with me because of that. So I decided to try my luck elsewhere. Also, because I wanted to explore a bit on my first night and not pick up a guy at the first bar and end up back in my hotel room early. As busy as the Freshboys was, it was deserted in Tawan. Two other (young) customers. They both had a Tawan man sitting next to them, hands going everywhere, and at one dark moment, they even gave blowjobs in public... Exciting! But other than that... Most of the guys weren't my type. I'm into muscular guys. But lean muscular ones. And not what was generally "on the menu" in Tawan. There was one guy who did interest me, but he avoided eye contact. And I agree with @vinapuvinapu it usually doesn't result in a good date if you choose a guy who doesn't make eye contact and tries to get your attention or flirt with you. Guys (or men, as many of the Tawan staff fall into that category) are mostly on their phones, uninterested (except for two who did stop by for a chat), and one who seemed to have fallen asleep on the couch. He sat there with his eyes closed... It actually felt a bit awkward so I tried my best to finish my drink a little faster than normal. It was a little after midnight now, and I thought I'd try somewhere else. Only to find that everything was closed or about to close. Apparently, on weeknights in Bangkok these days, you have to make sure you've found a guy before midnight... Haha. Luckily, Grindr offered a solution. A massage therapist offered himself for the reasonable price of 1,500 baht for full service. He was able to walk straight through the reception to my hotel room without any problems once I gave him my room number. He was a nice, spontaneous guy, who was apparently a fan of 7-Eleven, because he had a large tattoo of their logo on the back of his neck. That tattoo looked familiar. But I can't remember the context. Maybe I saw the guy once when he worked at one of the boy bars. Or maybe I even met up with him on one of my previous trips... I asked him to give me a soft massage because I was experiencing some pain, and he knew exactly the right pressure so it wasn't painful, but you could feel that he was doing something. Satisfied and tired, I crawled into bed after he had also provided the extra service to my satisfaction. To give you an idea of what he is like, below is a photo from which I have cropped out his face. A successful first (half) day in Bangkok.

ARRIVAL I've been flying business class on my outbound journey for years. It's quite a long journey from Europe, and I love arriving in Thailand refreshed. This way, I can immediately dive into the sodomy that is Patpong, full of energy. I also find that by flying business class, the holiday begins during the trip instead of only when you arrive at your destination. Another advantage: you can use priority lane at immigration. After all, the lines at passport control can sometimes be very crowded. While boarding my 2nd flight/leg in Doha, I spotted a well-dressed, well-built guy. The kind you know right away is gay. A shirt that was way, way, way too tight around his muscular torso. But I did have something delicious to look at and fantasize about. And who did I meet on Grindr hours later after arriving? Of course... This guy. Haha. I chatted with him for a bit and admitted to him that I find him very attractive. But he's attracted to everything I'm not (younger, muscular, etc.), so unfortunately, nothing came out of it. But... It's a small gay world. Photos from his Grindr profile, his head cropped for privacy reasons. The first photo shows his style on the plane. Then you'll understand the gaydar that tripped me up. The second photo, just because it's hot, him shirtless. Just before leaving, I realized I'd made a mistake in the booking dates for my first hotel in Bangkok. As a result, I had a hotel for nights 2 and 3, but hadn't yet booked the first night. The last-minute prices for the luxurious Meridian Hotel, where I'd treated myself to two nights to kick off my vacation, were very high. So I decided to look for a cheaper option in Silom for one night and then move to the Meridian Hotel on day two. I found a very good deal on booking.com for Squirrel House, a relatively new hotel in the building that used to house the BBB Inn. I often prefer newer hotels. They still look fresh, are often clean, and have a modern, bright interior. I remember several other forum members having stayed there as well. See: I found old photos of the hotel on Google Maps when it was still the BBB Inn. It's funny to see that they advertised the hotel back then with a photo of a staff member lying on a hotel bed. I wonder if any members here ever found a staff member lying on their bed back then? The location is, of course, ideal. Within walking distance of all the bars and massage shops in Patpong. At least, within walking distance for most of us. @Olddaddy would definitely take a motorbike taxi... I think someone on this forum already mentioned the hotel's lack of an elevator. And of course, lucky me, my room was on the third floor... I had to lug my heavy suitcase up the stairs. The room is very basic. The bed is a bit too firm for my liking. And it's quite noisy. I hear a lot of noise from others walking in the hallway, from other rooms, and from slamming doors. The renovation of the adjacent (former) Take a Nap Hostel is currently also causing noise pollution. In short: it was nice to try a new hotel, and thankfully it was only for one night, but I won't be booking this one again.

ขอให้เที่ยวสนุกนะครับ 😊

I'm saying that CNN writes for essentially largely an American audience. Lots of non-gay non-Chinese websites are not accessible in China without a VPN. It seems you did not read the article properly. It states - a source familiar with the matter told CNN that it appeared to be related to compliance issues This is stated twice. And after the fuss has died down some apps will reappear as has been the case in the past. Blued, the huge international site founded by a former Beiing policeman, has a Chinese state company as one of its investors. Would China permit a state enterprise to invest in a company which it wanted permanently out of the way? I have gay friends in various Chinese cities. They have no particular desire to march in or attend gay pride parades or even use apps to meet gay friends. That's the western way. They quickly develop their own circles of friends. If you are a one-time or just occasional visitor and you don't like the status quo, don't go. Simple as that. I am delighted to visit.